Riots in North London (and other UK cities)

[The Parkus Empire]

Have a map! :3

Mapping the riots with poverty


EDIT:

Does anyone else love the irony in how a lot of the people calling for the army to be sent in are the same people who a few decades ago were crying out for "Anarchy in the UK"?

Correlation =/= causation.

For as far as poverty and crime go, it does, for all intensive purposes. Make a neighborhood poor and you'll see it get pretty criminal...though making a middle-class city criminal doesn't necessarily make it poor, and in fact can achieve the opposite (1970's/80's Miami, for instance).

[Trixiestan]

The only source of immigrants you mentioned there was Africa.

When you say "possibly hundreds of years" you are talking about Black Americans aren't you?

It's their "tribal culture" of disrespect for the law, you're saying? It has nothing to do with being forcibly separated from their cultures and their families, and held in slavery. Oh no, it couldn't be anything to do with that. No, it's their black culture that makes them all gang bangers.

That's what you're saying isn't it?

Please point out to me which American citizen currently living was a slave.

Florida a leader in modern slavery

TALLAHASSEE - Human trafficking - modern-day slavery - is "alive and well ... right here in our own back yard," the head of a human rights center said Tuesday as it released a report on people forced to work as prostitutes, crop pickers and maids across Florida.

Modern slavery thriving in the U.S.

BERKELEY – Washington, D.C. - A new report on forced labor in the United States reveals in disturbing detail how individuals in communities across the country are forced through threats or violence to work in deplorable conditions for little or no pay.

Modern-Day Slavery in America

Human rights organizations and federal officials, including President Bush, however, insist that modern-day slavery, also known as "human trafficking," is alive and well today in the United States.

Next to the illegal trades in drugs and arms, human trafficking is the third-largest and fastest-growing criminal enterprise in the world, according to government figures. The departments of Justice and State, as well as anti-trafficking groups, estimate there are about 27 million people worldwide in modern-day slavery.

Need I go on?

[Darth Didacticus]

Need I go on?

Let me rephrase it, since you apparently were unaware of the context of the question:

Please point out to me one current, living American citizen of African descent who was brought to the United States (or the Colonies, if they're that old) for the specific and expressed purpose of being manual labor on Southern plantations.

[Aeronos]

Correlation =/= causation.

For as far as poverty and crime go, it does, for all intensive purposes. Make a neighborhood poor and you'll see it get pretty criminal...though making a middle-class city criminal doesn't necessarily make it poor, and in fact can achieve the opposite (1970's/80's Miami, for instance).

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that many of these people are walking round with top-of-the-range Nike trainers, iPods and most notably, BlackBerries. I can't even afford much clothes at the moment, nevermind a new phone, and I'm considered at the higher end of the lower class, so what does that say about them?! When you're burning buildings with £500 of luxury items on you, you certainly cannot claim to be impoverished

[The Parkus Empire]

For as far as poverty and crime go, it does, for all intensive purposes. Make a neighborhood poor and you'll see it get pretty criminal...though making a middle-class city criminal doesn't necessarily make it poor, and in fact can achieve the opposite (1970's/80's Miami, for instance).

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that many of these people are walking round with top-of-the-range Nike trainers, iPods and most notably, BlackBerries. I can't even afford much clothes at the moment, nevermind a new phone, and I'm considered at the higher end of the lower class, so what does that say about them?! When you're burning buildings with £500 of luxury items on you, you certainly cannot claim to be impoverished

You can if you've been spending your whole day ripping-off luxury items.

[Vellosia]

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that many of these people are walking round with top-of-the-range Nike trainers, iPods and most notably, BlackBerries. I can't even afford much clothes at the moment, nevermind a new phone, and I'm considered at the higher end of the lower class, so what does that say about them?! When you're burning buildings with £500 of luxury items on you, you certainly cannot claim to be impoverished

You can if you've been spending your whole day ripping-off luxury items.

Considering that many of the riots and much of the looting seems to have been organised through BlackBerry Messenger, it implies that many of, if not most of, the rioters and looters had access to such an item prior to these events. And of course, even if they stole them from shops, they have to get contracts et cetera in order to use them.

[Darth Didacticus]

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that many of these people are walking round with top-of-the-range Nike trainers, iPods and most notably, BlackBerries. I can't even afford much clothes at the moment, nevermind a new phone, and I'm considered at the higher end of the lower class, so what does that say about them?! When you're burning buildings with £500 of luxury items on you, you certainly cannot claim to be impoverished

You can if you've been spending your whole day ripping-off luxury items.

Touche.

Of course, the same thing happens here in the States. There's quite a black/gray market for creatively acquired luxury goods and designer knock-offs.

[AiliailiA]

The only source of immigrants you mentioned there was Africa.

When you say "possibly hundreds of years" you are talking about Black Americans aren't you?

It's their "tribal culture" of disrespect for the law, you're saying? It has nothing to do with being forcibly separated from their cultures and their families, and held in slavery. Oh no, it couldn't be anything to do with that. No, it's their black culture that makes them all gang bangers.

That's what you're saying isn't it?

Please point out to me which American citizen currently living was a slave.

I won't.

I accused Lessnt of characterizing "people from Africa" as intractably tribal based on US experience. I called that racist.

Lessnt denied that, and I accept their denial, and I've moved on.

My remark was not directed to you. If the shoe fits ... eat it.

[Darth Didacticus]

Please point out to me which American citizen currently living was a slave.

I won't.

I accused Lessnt of characterizing "people from Africa" as intractably tribal based on US experience. I called that racist.

Lessnt denied that, and I accept their denial, and I've moved on.

My remark was not directed to you. If the shoe fits ... eat it.

Ah, so without any evidence, you accused him of racism? You're so classy.

[AiliailiA]

Need I go on?

Let me rephrase it, since you apparently were unaware of the context of the question:

Please point out to me one current, living American citizen of African descent who was brought to the United States (or the Colonies, if they're that old) for the specific and expressed purpose of being manual labor on Southern plantations.

No, how about you go back to the context in which you asked the question.

The context of me characterizing another poster's opinion, which has since been clarified, and both me and that poster moving on.

Or just go right ahead and hijack the thread ... I can't stop you doing that ...

[AiliailiA]

I won't.

I accused Lessnt of characterizing "people from Africa" as intractably tribal based on US experience. I called that racist.

Lessnt denied that, and I accept their denial, and I've moved on.

My remark was not directed to you. If the shoe fits ... eat it.

Ah, so without any evidence, you accused him of racism? You're so classy.

I accept the insult. And now, I think we should get back on topic.

[The Parkus Empire]

Considering that many of the riots and much of the looting seems to have been organised through BlackBerry Messenger,

Maybe the political riots. I doubt any of the looting was, apart from gang related. Looting is very much an "every man for himself" affair, where one isn't sending the swag back the government.

it implies that many of, if not most of, the rioters and looters had access to such an item prior to these events.

It implies some rioters had access to such items. Seeing as how the vast majority of them are at the very bottom of the economic pile, it's quite a stretch to say that "many" or "most" had good access to luxuries. After all, one poster just chimed in that he's "at higher end of the lower class" and he can't even afford that.

And of course, even if they stole them from shops, they have to get contracts et cetera in order to use them.

I was referring mainly to items that the rioters were visibly toting.

[Darth Didacticus]

I accept the insult. And now, I think we should get back on topic.

Agreed. Sorry for the tangent.

[The Parkus Empire]

You can if you've been spending your whole day ripping-off luxury items.

Touche.

Of course, the same thing happens here in the States. There's quite a black/gray market for creatively acquired luxury goods and designer knock-offs.

Oh, yes.

[Darth Didacticus]

Considering that many of the riots and much of the looting seems to have been organised through BlackBerry Messenger,

Maybe the political riots. I doubt any of the looting was, apart from gang related. Looting is very much an "every man for himself" affair, where one isn't sending the swag back the government.

it implies that many of, if not most of, the rioters and looters had access to such an item prior to these events.

It implies some rioters had access to such items. Seeing as how the vast majority of them are at the very bottom of the economic pile, it's quite a stretch to say that "many" or "most" had good access to luxuries. After all, one poster just chimed in that he's "at higher end of the lower class" and he can't even afford that.

And of course, even if they stole them from shops, they have to get contracts et cetera in order to use them.

I was referring mainly to items that the rioters were visibly toting.

BBM allows people to send out messages to everyone else with a Blackberry within a certain radius, I believe, so not just the gang-related looting may have been organized through BBM. Reports are that people were sending out info indiscriminately.

[Darth Didacticus]

Touche.

Of course, the same thing happens here in the States. There's quite a black/gray market for creatively acquired luxury goods and designer knock-offs.

Oh, yes.

In fact, I've been offered said goods. "You want a TV? I've got a 32" HDTV for $200."

My response: "Oh, thanks! I'll wait and see if I have the money next paycheck, and I'll get back to you."

Even if I had the money, I didn't have the money.

[The Parkus Empire]

Maybe the political riots. I doubt any of the looting was, apart from gang related. Looting is very much an "every man for himself" affair, where one isn't sending the swag back the government.



It implies some rioters had access to such items. Seeing as how the vast majority of them are at the very bottom of the economic pile, it's quite a stretch to say that "many" or "most" had good access to luxuries. After all, one poster just chimed in that he's "at higher end of the lower class" and he can't even afford that.



I was referring mainly to items that the rioters were visibly toting.

BBM allows people to send out messages to everyone else with a Blackberry within a certain radius, I believe, so not just the gang-related looting may have been organized through BBM. Reports are that people were sending out info indiscriminately.

Saying: "Plenty of good shit at Bob's!" Is hardly organizing, and certainly doesn't represent the majority of the looters.

[Darth Didacticus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I'm sure this has already been posted... but... ROFL!

Dummies.

[The Parkus Empire]

Oh, yes.

In fact, I've been offered said goods. "You want a TV? I've got a 32" HDTV for $200."

My response: "Oh, thanks! I'll wait and see if I have the money next paycheck, and I'll get back to you."

Even if I had the money, I didn't have the money.

You must know some very intrepid entrepreneurs.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I'm sure this has already been posted... but... ROFL!

Dummies.

http://vimeo.com/27503781

Love this guy

[Darth Didacticus]

In fact, I've been offered said goods. "You want a TV? I've got a 32" HDTV for $200."

My response: "Oh, thanks! I'll wait and see if I have the money next paycheck, and I'll get back to you."

Even if I had the money, I didn't have the money.

You must know some very intrepid entrepreneurs.

They were customers of mine when I was an assistant manager at a finance company (read: bill collector), and I guess I got into a conversation about needing a new television because mine had messed up. I was being sociable, and they offered me a cheap TV for something like a third the price they were in the stores.

Also, considering the locations I drove to try and get in contact with the customers (never to collect money, just to have them call the office), I decided to keep a pistol in my glove box.

[AiliailiA]

Maybe the political riots. I doubt any of the looting was, apart from gang related. Looting is very much an "every man for himself" affair, where one isn't sending the swag back the government.



It implies some rioters had access to such items. Seeing as how the vast majority of them are at the very bottom of the economic pile, it's quite a stretch to say that "many" or "most" had good access to luxuries. After all, one poster just chimed in that he's "at higher end of the lower class" and he can't even afford that.



I was referring mainly to items that the rioters were visibly toting.

BBM allows people to send out messages to everyone else with a Blackberry within a certain radius, I believe, so not just the gang-related looting may have been organized through BBM. Reports are that people were sending out info indiscriminately.

Broadcasting yes. Apparently you can use end-to-end encryption on Blackberry too, which even the network carrier can't read. Mostly it's corporations and governments which do that.

[Darth Didacticus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I'm sure this has already been posted... but... ROFL!

Dummies.

http://vimeo.com/27503781

Love this guy

"I'm going to throw this UMBRELLA at the pigs! Wait, why did it open? I didn't want it to open! WAAAAAAH!"

[The Parkus Empire]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I'm sure this has already been posted... but... ROFL!

Dummies.

http://vimeo.com/27503781

Love this guy

Being able to do whatever the hell you want must feel pretty good, as fucked as the situation is.

[Darth Didacticus]

BBM allows people to send out messages to everyone else with a Blackberry within a certain radius, I believe, so not just the gang-related looting may have been organized through BBM. Reports are that people were sending out info indiscriminately.

Broadcasting yes. Apparently you can use end-to-end encryption on Blackberry too, which even the network carrier can't read. Mostly it's corporations and governments which do that.

Do you know how difficult the encryption is to use? Is it a built-in feature?