NATION

PASSWORD

Going back in time.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:22 am

Sibirsky wrote:
Ifreann wrote:"Trust me guys, invest in these microchip thingies".

And bet on this team! ;)

1984 Sports Almanac FTW.

User avatar
Tsal-Kar
Envoy
 
Posts: 218
Founded: Jun 04, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tsal-Kar » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:30 am

I'd bring a shotgun and call it my boom stick.

Also, having taken charge through my intellect - and the shooting of those who tried to burn me for witchcraft (which modern technology would likely be called) - I'd take advantage of the tactics used by medieval armies (stand in long lines and charge - basically a pre-gun version of what conventional armies did in the Revolutionary era), and introduce gunpowder and the super-reliable, easy to mass-produce AK-47 to the formula. By no means accurate, but volley fire and ease of use definitely makes up for that :lol: .
Economic Left/Right: 3.00
Social: Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.41

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:33 am

Ifreann wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:And bet on this team! ;)

1984 Sports Almanac FTW.

:clap:
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:35 am

Ailiailia wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Reread the underlined part. :)
I will hope they will manage to do it... if they cant then - ah well. They still have one of largest empires along with Romanian and German. :)


Yeah, but still the idea of lugging a nuclear submarine up the Himalayas to "give" it to Nepal is rather comical. :p

True, but there is nothing wrong with trying - provided obviously that they dont blow up the nuclear warhead while trying to reverse it (quite likely). :p
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Blazedtown
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15177
Founded: Jun 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Blazedtown » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:06 am

Save Dimebag and Dio, and send Lady Gaga to a monastery with a vow of silence when she was 8.
Go Vikings.
Sunnyvale, straight the fuck up.

User avatar
Make up your own mind
Diplomat
 
Posts: 787
Founded: Mar 31, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Make up your own mind » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:07 am

In the future I will go into the past and teach cave people language. I will also invent the earliest language.
Quotes of the moment:
"Power: It no longer just corrupts, it corrodes too." -Gauthier
"who needs certainty when you've got spaceships?" -Free Soviets
Samuraikoku wrote:
Enadail wrote:I'm not understanding why we should compromise justice, liberty, and rights?

Because "mass chaos will ensue".

Sociobiology wrote:yes because such people always want to believe they have a clue about psychology, come to think of it everyone does, must be a fluke caused by wiring us to model other peoples brains in ours.

Literature is dead
A tradition that has stood the test of time...
The Princess Prophecy!

It's a mixed bag really.
I don't hate Christians. I even have Christian friends. ;)
People's impact outlasts them, especially on a forum.
It get's better.

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:01 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
I'm a chemist... which maybe is kind of cheating. With a little experimentation to get proportions right, I don't doubt I could concoct gunpowder recipes... just based on what I know of history and chemistry.

Sten guns though... simple to mass produce, little complexity in assembly. A little 20th century know-how, and the 9th Legion are carrying submachine guns.

*nods*

But it's not just that they don't have the tools to make sten guns; the Romans don't have the tools to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools that make the sten gun. The advances in metallurgy, machine tools, standardization, and chemistry required even to make a crude bolt action rifle, let-alone a finicky automatic weapon, just aren't there.


Nonsense. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that people who lived a long time ago were stupider than we are.

The technology for making steel predates Rome by a thousand years and more, the chemistry and mettalurgy are more than sufficient - all it needs is a template - and that's the beauty of the Sten, its the pinnacle of template technology. It's NOT finicky - they were often given nicknames like "Plumber's Abortion" because they are so simple, they can be made in a few hours (largely) out of simple parts (like plumbing supplies). The hardest thing to facilitate in ancient Rome would probably be the (few) welds required, but since ancient Egyptians had electric cell technology, I think that would be a small hurdle to cross.
I identify as
a problem

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:But it's not just that they don't have the tools to make sten guns; the Romans don't have the tools to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools that make the sten gun. The advances in metallurgy, machine tools, standardization, and chemistry required even to make a crude bolt action rifle, let-alone a finicky automatic weapon, just aren't there.


Nonsense. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that people who lived a long time ago were stupider than we are.

The technology for making steel predates Rome by a thousand years and more, the chemistry and mettalurgy are more than sufficient - all it needs is a template - and that's the beauty of the Sten, its the pinnacle of template technology. It's NOT finicky - they were often given nicknames like "Plumber's Abortion" because they are so simple, they can be made in a few hours (largely) out of simple parts (like plumbing supplies). The hardest thing to facilitate in ancient Rome would probably be the (few) welds required, but since ancient Egyptians had electric cell technology, I think that would be a small hurdle to cross.

I'd like to add that the Romans are the ones who gave us concrete.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:04 pm

Great Nepal wrote:I would take a nuclear submarine loaded with a lot of Trident D5 back to late 1800s; sail it to Thames river, destroy London - then demand all of British Empire (except UK, obviously) to be ceded to Nepal...


At which point, the Empire and it's allies raze Nepal to the ground. Very Pyrrhic.
I identify as
a problem

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202536
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:06 pm

I just would enjoy the Quattrocento and Cinquecentto in all it's glory. Renaissance in Venice, in Florence, in Rome. I would love to see and live that period.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Tatec
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1195
Founded: Feb 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Tatec » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:07 pm

Me with a time machine? I'd soon create my NS Nation in RL. :lol:
Honorable Senator of the National Centre Party [NSG Senate]
RP Name: Royal Federation of Czechoslovakia
Funeral of Emperor James Westinghouse (Current RP)

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:09 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:I would take a nuclear submarine loaded with a lot of Trident D5 back to late 1800s; sail it to Thames river, destroy London - then demand all of British Empire (except UK, obviously) to be ceded to Nepal...


At which point, the Empire and it's allies raze Nepal to the ground. Very Pyrrhic.

I'd bring a few more progressive and egalitarian books with me, and have them translated into Latin.
Thomas Paine is definitely in that list.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111674
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:21 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Nonsense. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that people who lived a long time ago were stupider than we are.

The technology for making steel predates Rome by a thousand years and more, the chemistry and mettalurgy are more than sufficient - all it needs is a template - and that's the beauty of the Sten, its the pinnacle of template technology. It's NOT finicky - they were often given nicknames like "Plumber's Abortion" because they are so simple, they can be made in a few hours (largely) out of simple parts (like plumbing supplies). The hardest thing to facilitate in ancient Rome would probably be the (few) welds required, but since ancient Egyptians had electric cell technology, I think that would be a small hurdle to cross.

I'd like to add that the Romans are the ones who gave us concrete.

You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:33 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I'd like to add that the Romans are the ones who gave us concrete.

You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them,


Why?

The only appreciable problem with Sten guns (specifically, the Mark III) relates to the way the magazine feeds (and attendant mishandling impacting the feed). The guns are made from stamped steel, to a basic template. It really is arguably the quintessential 'template technology' weapon.

Sten guns were often made in small operations, in just a couple of man-hours of labour, pretty much from first principles.

I see no reason to believe Romans would be breaking their guns less than 5 hours after they were issued with them.
I identify as
a problem

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:34 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I'd like to add that the Romans are the ones who gave us concrete.

You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...

I thought it was rather obvious that's what we meant.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111674
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:37 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...

I thought it was rather obvious that's what we meant.

A STEN gun is not a nice arquebus or muzzle-loader, and that's what GnI was talking about.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:40 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I thought it was rather obvious that's what we meant.

A STEN gun is not a nice arquebus or muzzle-loader, and that's what GnI was talking about.

Oh sorry, I was the one who brought up bringing back gunpowder.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

User avatar
Tsal-Kar
Envoy
 
Posts: 218
Founded: Jun 04, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tsal-Kar » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:41 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I'd like to add that the Romans are the ones who gave us concrete.

You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...


No, you can't make them from concrete. Luckily, the Romans made use of iron (which steel is made from), so if you bring the knowledge of how to make steel along with your Sten guns (or, as I suggested, the even more reliable AK's) and gunpowder formulas, you're set. Alternatively, you could go back to a later time in which steel was already used, so you could cut back on how much you had to bring back.
Economic Left/Right: 3.00
Social: Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.41

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:46 pm

Tsal-Kar wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...


No, you can't make them from concrete. Luckily, the Romans made use of iron (which steel is made from), so if you bring the knowledge of how to make steel along with your Sten guns (or, as I suggested, the even more reliable AK's) and gunpowder formulas, you're set. Alternatively, you could go back to a later time in which steel was already used, so you could cut back on how much you had to bring back.


I agree AKs are far more reliable. I'm weighing the pro of design simplicity against the con of... well, not being an AK. I think you could stamp and assemble Sten parts in ancient Rome, I'm not so sure about the AK.
I identify as
a problem

User avatar
Swedish Vinland
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Jun 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Swedish Vinland » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:49 pm

Give history books translated into Elder Futhark Runes to the Vikings so as to be warned about the scourge of Christianity,

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111674
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:52 pm

Tsal-Kar wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:You can't make automatic weapons out of concrete.

And sorry, but Trotskylvania's right, the guns would break down far faster than the Romans would be able to reverse-engineer them, and all the infrastructure required to manufacture them. Now, a nice arquebus or a muzzle-loader ...


No, you can't make them from concrete. Luckily, the Romans made use of iron (which steel is made from), so if you bring the knowledge of how to make steel along with your Sten guns (or, as I suggested, the even more reliable AK's) and gunpowder formulas, you're set. Alternatively, you could go back to a later time in which steel was already used, so you could cut back on how much you had to bring back.

Sure, but they didn't have the machine tools needed to make the parts that go into the automatic weapons. Knowing how to make a steel sword is not the same as knowing how to make the steel parts for a STEN, which need to be made to quite precise specifications. Yeah, you can jury rig parts on a STEN or an AK-47, but think about what you're using to do that.

I'm a firm believer in the intelligence of our ancestors, but you can just go back with some plans and a few demo pieces and say, "Yo, Marcus, come over here, I wanna show you something."
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Sure, but they didn't have the machine tools needed to make the parts that go into the automatic weapons. Knowing how to make a steel sword is not the same as knowing how to make the steel parts for a STEN, which need to be made to quite precise specifications. Yeah, you can jury rig parts on a STEN or an AK-47, but think about what you're using to do that.


Arguably, most Sten guns were jury-rigged. That's kind of the point. The parts aren't that precise, all you need is sheet steel, and the ability to stamp and assemble the parts - and it doesn't actually require industrialisation to stamp steel (it's just easier) or to make steel (it's just easier).

The technology and technique to make a good steel sword is arguably more intensive than that required to make a Sten.

The ammunition would be more of a problem than the guns. It might be more efficient to make a more primitive black-powder weapon, just because of that... but Romans with submachine guns would look cooler.

*nods*
I identify as
a problem

User avatar
Keronians
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18231
Founded: Oct 15, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Keronians » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:29 pm

Genivaria wrote:If you could take a piece of modern technology with you back in time, what would it be and for what purpose?

I'd take some of Benjamin Franklin's research notes on electricity to some Roman scholars.


I'd take a time machine and show it to Albert Einstein to blow his mind.
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
Political compass
Awarded the Bronze Medal for General Debating at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards. Awarded Best New Poster at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards.
It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

User avatar
Germanic Templars
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20682
Founded: Jul 01, 2011
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Germanic Templars » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:31 pm

I'd take tools, materials and blueprints to make a time machine to area 51 back in 1995.

  • INTP
  • All American Patriotic Constitutionalist/Classic libertarian (with fiscal conservatism)
  • Religiously Tolerant
  • Roman Catholic
  • Hoplophilic/ammosexual
  • X=3.13, Y=2.41
  • Supports the Blue


I support Capitalism do you? If so, put this in your sig.

XY = Male, XX = Female

User avatar
New Emmerian Coalition
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1793
Founded: Mar 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby New Emmerian Coalition » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:32 pm

Go to the American revolution with a ton of modern day weapons and tell them to conquer the world! And the blueprints so they can make more! MUWAHAHAHAHA!
That or making my own NS nation IRL, skipping a few hundred years, if I see it fall, than I will go to future, see why, go back, improve it, rinse and repeat.
Last edited by New Emmerian Coalition on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current Location: Gone Rogue @ DZ02 Steeleport

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: American Legionaries, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Cachard Calia, Celritannia, EuroStralia, Floofybit, Google [Bot], Hispida, Kubra, Lord Dominator, Necroghastia, Neonian Technocracy, Perikuresu, Spirit of Hope, The Pirateariat, The Two Jerseys, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads