Bomb attack on Oslo, Norway. At least 87 dead.

[Vecherd]

He does not support the Progress party, he was a member until 2006 but got out because he didn't like the party.

News say he left the party because he found them to be too much into Multiculturalism, which I guess is like accusing the GOP of being socialist.

No it would be to accuse GOP of being Third Way(which they are). There are no parties in Norway that are against multiculturalism.

[Dakini]

Nothing to do with religion. I love how the western apologists/atheists/islam defenders/christianity persecutors like to jump all over this and twist things. Way to keep it small minded and bigoted, guys.

I didn't say his attacks had anything to do with religion. I said that the fact that he committed these attacks doesn't make him less of a Christian in the same way your sins don't make you less of a Christian (if you are one).

[Dakini]

And I can still point out that all Christians fall short of the glory of their god and that according to their book, one sin is just as bad as any other and they will all be taken away when one asks for forgiveness according to their text. So going on a murder spree doesn't make this man less of a Christian. Ceasing to believe in Jesus would make him less of a Christian.

That's a mighty big assumption you make when you say that one sin is just as bad as any other - hundreds of millions of Christians would disagree.

In the eyes of god all sins are equally bad* and require forgiveness and the cleansing power of Jesus.

*I might be incorrect here, it seems that sins like making graven idols are worse than others.

[Serrland]

That's a mighty big assumption you make when you say that one sin is just as bad as any other - hundreds of millions of Christians would disagree.

In the eyes of god all sins are equally bad and require forgiveness and the cleansing power of Jesus.

Unless you are a member of a denomination that has a concept of Venial and Mortal sins, or by some other name.

St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite gave seven classes:
Pardonable
Near the pardonable
Non-mortal
Near the non-mortal
Between the mortal and the non-mortal
Near the mortal
Mortal

[Tekania]

No it basically isn't. It's basically attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan... "Denying Christ" is in fact forgivable... If it weren't, then it would be impossible for people to become Christians.

Yeah... which is why it's the state of continual disbelief, not temporary disbelief.

You kids didn't pay much attention in Sunday school, did you?

Continual disbelief is not blasphemy against the holy spirit. Blasphemy against the holy spirit is SPECIFICALLY the sin of attributing the work of the Spirit to that of the Devil.... Denying Christ is in fact forgivable. This "Continual" stuff is pointless drivel, continuing in any sin is damnable. I could care less what those Antichrists at your Sunday School taught you.

[Dakini]

Yeah... which is why it's the state of continual disbelief, not temporary disbelief.

You kids didn't pay much attention in Sunday school, did you?

Continual disbelief is not blasphemy against the holy spirit. Blasphemy against the holy spirit is SPECIFICALLY the sin of attributing the work of the Spirit to that of the Devil.... Denying Christ is in fact forgivable. This "Continual" stuff is pointless drivel, continuing in any sin is damnable. I could care less what those Antichrists at your Sunday School taught you.

Dude, this isn't the antichrists at my Sunday school (they would probably actually really resent that remark), you can read it right there on a nice happy Christian website. You can't interpret one instance to be the only instance of blasphemy against the holy spirit. Hell, go ask your pastor/reverend/priest/whatever the head of your church is. I've been told this by Christians as well, usually they wrap this in with "you're going to hell because x".

[Angleter]

No, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Actually, denying the Holy Spirit^TM is the only unforgivable sin.

...which is basically denying the Son (or as this site puts it, a state of continued disbelief).

Got Questions are described as "Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational," so they're most likely Bachmann-loving nutwhacks. The Catholic perspective assigns the following definitions:

Despair- ie. refusing to repent a (mortal, as with all references to 'sin' from now on) sin since one believes it too great for God to forgive.
Presumption- ie. refusing to repent a sin since one believes it shall be forgiven without one's repentance.
Resistance to Known Truth- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.
Envy of a Brother's Spiritual Good- ie. instead of responding to one's sinful nature by wanting to become good, responding by wanting the good to become sinful.
Impenitence- ie. having no remorse for one's sins, and thus refusing to repent when offered the opportunity to do so.
Obstinacy- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.

Since a mortal sin itself is a grave sin that must be performed consciously and with full knowledge of the sin's gravity, non-Christians can to a certain extent plead non-knowledge of the sin's gravity, and so the eternal sin is for all intents and purposes applied primarily to Christians. It's also worth pointing out that eternal sin is considered the sin that prevents one from the means of absolution, and as such is 'unforgivable' in that it isn't in the normal canon of sins you confess to the priest, but can be overcome nonetheless.

[Dakini]

In the eyes of god all sins are equally bad and require forgiveness and the cleansing power of Jesus.

Unless you are a member of a denomination that has a concept of Venial and Mortal sins, or by some other name.

St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite gave seven classes:
Pardonable
Near the pardonable
Non-mortal
Near the non-mortal
Between the mortal and the non-mortal
Near the mortal
Mortal

Well fine, but that's not in the Bible. That's something that St Nic up there made.

[Dakini]

...which is basically denying the Son (or as this site puts it, a state of continued disbelief).

Got Questions are described as "Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational," so they're most likely Bachmann-loving nutwhacks. The Catholic perspective assigns the following definitions:

Despair- ie. refusing to repent a (mortal, as with all references to 'sin' from now on) sin since one believes it too great for God to forgive.
Presumption- ie. refusing to repent a sin since one believes it shall be forgiven without one's repentance.
Resistance to Known Truth- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.
Envy of a Brother's Spiritual Good- ie. instead of responding to one's sinful nature by wanting to become good, responding by wanting the good to become sinful.
Impenitence- ie. having no remorse for one's sins, and thus refusing to repent when offered the opportunity to do so.
Obstinacy- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.

Since a mortal sin itself is a grave sin that must be performed consciously and with full knowledge of the sin's gravity, non-Christians can to a certain extent plead non-knowledge of the sin's gravity, and so the eternal sin is for all intents and purposes applied primarily to Christians. It's also worth pointing out that eternal sin is considered the sin that prevents one from the means of absolution, and as such is 'unforgivable' in that it isn't in the normal canon of sins you confess to the priest, but can be overcome nonetheless.

If you're going to plagiarise wikipedia, at least cite it (and again, that's Catholics, I wasn't raised one of those).

I suppose you're slightly correct in that non-Christians who have never heard of Christ have an excuse (although in my church, this was used as a justification for missionary work and not always an excuse depending who you asked), but people like me who find it impossible to believe in this fairy tale despite being raised in its traditions are "worse" sinners than the Christian man who blew away 92 people yesterday. Perhaps you should stop and think about the sorts of priorities your god has here, but frankly I find that ludicrous.

[Forsakia]

And I can still point out that all Christians fall short of the glory of their god and that according to their book, one sin is just as bad as any other and they will all be taken away when one asks for forgiveness according to their text. So going on a murder spree doesn't make this man less of a Christian. Ceasing to believe in Jesus would make him less of a Christian.

That's a mighty big assumption you make when you say that one sin is just as bad as any other - hundreds of millions of Christians would disagree.

But then what is and isn't Christian is a massively debatable question.

Which sort of the undermines the no true christian argument.

[Hossaim]

shocking event.

[Baltenstein]

News say he left the party because he found them to be too much into Multiculturalism, which I guess is like accusing the GOP of being socialist.

No it would be to accuse GOP of being Third Way(which they are). There are no parties in Norway that are against multiculturalism.

Erm...the Progress Party is known for its rhethoric against immigration, multiculturalism and PC.

[Lackadaisical2]

You do realise that no true Christian would do this.

Sorry, but in a religion which acknowledges that one may do wrong and be forgiven for it this doesn't particularly make sense. Surely he wasn't being a good christian, that doesn't mean he wasn't one.

[New Freedomstan]

No it would be to accuse GOP of being Third Way(which they are). There are no parties in Norway that are against multiculturalism.

Erm...the Progress Party is known for its rhethoric against immigration, multiculturalism and PC.

And the whole "norway is the last soviet state!" thing. Wouldn't be surprising if someone with psychopathic leanings took that rhetoric literally.

[Hossaim]

now 92 dead

[Lackadaisical2]

I think most of the dead are from the shooting at the summer camp.

It wasn't the Taliban or any Muslim groups, so far it seems to be a right-wing Christian extremist. They don't know if he was working with a group or alone on this though.

Well, somewhat glad it ain't the Taliban. If right-wing Christian extremists are so upset, they shoul just pack up and leave. Go and found some weird villiage where they worship pagan gods God.

Well, that least people can't claim Christianity is a religion of peace. Hmm, come to think of it, I don't think any religion is truely peaceful execpt for Buddhism. Maybe they should go meet The Dalhi Llama no?

Buddhism as a whole isn't non-violent in practice, Japan was majority Buddhist and they had no problem killing millions of Chinese, for example.

[Angleter]

Got Questions are described as "Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational," so they're most likely Bachmann-loving nutwhacks. The Catholic perspective assigns the following definitions:

Despair- ie. refusing to repent a (mortal, as with all references to 'sin' from now on) sin since one believes it too great for God to forgive.
Presumption- ie. refusing to repent a sin since one believes it shall be forgiven without one's repentance.
Resistance to Known Truth- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.
Envy of a Brother's Spiritual Good- ie. instead of responding to one's sinful nature by wanting to become good, responding by wanting the good to become sinful.
Impenitence- ie. having no remorse for one's sins, and thus refusing to repent when offered the opportunity to do so.
Obstinacy- ie. refusing to accept that one's sin is a sin.

Since a mortal sin itself is a grave sin that must be performed consciously and with full knowledge of the sin's gravity, non-Christians can to a certain extent plead non-knowledge of the sin's gravity, and so the eternal sin is for all intents and purposes applied primarily to Christians. It's also worth pointing out that eternal sin is considered the sin that prevents one from the means of absolution, and as such is 'unforgivable' in that it isn't in the normal canon of sins you confess to the priest, but can be overcome nonetheless.

If you're going to plagiarise wikipedia, at least cite it (and again, that's Catholics, I wasn't raised one of those).

I suppose you're slightly correct in that non-Christians who have never heard of Christ have an excuse (although in my church, this was used as a justification for missionary work and not always an excuse depending who you asked), but people like me who find it impossible to believe in this fairy tale despite being raised in its traditions are "worse" sinners than the Christian man who blew away 92 people yesterday. Perhaps you should stop and think about the sorts of priorities your god has here, but frankly I find that ludicrous.

I got the substance of it from here, if you must know. I only got the order from Wikipedia. Anyway, I can only speak for my own confession. And as regards apostasy or choosing not to believe, this once again depends- there is a difference between being materially and formally an apostate (or heretic, or schismatic, but let's not get into those). For the record, this is from here.

Someone who leaves the Christian faith is materially an apostate, but the by far more grave matter is to be a formal apostate, which involves leaving the Christian faith despite knowing it to be the revealed truth. It's acknowledging the Trinity and slapping them in the face, instead of simple conversion from Christianity, in which case one no longer believes in a Trinity to slap in the face. Furthermore, the more general notion of 'turning away from God', as a term used generally in connection with sin, effectively (to liberal Catholics at least) means to turn from God's law or the way of life proscribed by him, something which people of all religions are capable of doing alike, and which is worse by those who should know better- ie. those who accept Christianity as true- hence mortal sin.

Breivik, of course, acknowledges Christianity as the truth, and yet he has killed 92 people. That is mortal sin, that is turning away from God, and if he turns out to be unrepentant, then that will be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit too. So yes, he is a worse sinner than material apostates. Of course, this is all assuming he was in full control of his actions at the time.

But again, I can only claim to speak for my own subsection of my own denomination, and it really does depend upon whom you ask. Which denomination, just out of interest, were you raised in?

[Jerenia]

According to Iltalehti.fi, Anders Breivik had written a 1500-page(!!!) book about his beliefs and political ideologies. He shared it via e-mail to a "long list of people" under the name of Andrew Berwick. The last page contained pictures of the killer.

Source

[Keronians]

Well, somewhat glad it ain't the Taliban. If right-wing Christian extremists are so upset, they shoul just pack up and leave. Go and found some weird villiage where they worship pagan gods God.

Well, that least people can't claim Christianity is a religion of peace. Hmm, come to think of it, I don't think any religion is truely peaceful execpt for Buddhism. Maybe they should go meet The Dalhi Llama no?

Buddhism as a whole isn't non-violent in practice, Japan was majority Buddhist and they had no problem killing millions of Chinese, for example.

Japan is a somewhat... special case.

Most of its population practices Buddhism AND Shintoism together.

[Alterrea]

Terrible.
No other comment.

[Angleter]

Buddhism as a whole isn't non-violent in practice, Japan was majority Buddhist and they had no problem killing millions of Chinese, for example.

Japan is a somewhat... special case.

Most of its population practices Buddhism AND Shintoism together.

And are atheists at the same time.

[Xsyne]

While I don't disagree with you, left wing terrorism is more common than right wing terrorism...

Not in America.

Yes in America. RIght-wing terrorism does win on body count, however.

[Simon Cowell of the RR]

Has anyone been to FoxNews? The comments were terrific. Everyone was saying it was an 'evil mooslim'...and then reports came out is was a right-wing Christian fundamentalist with blue eyes and blond hair. Very awkward couple of minutes.
Seriously, though, this was a horrible event. I guess what we need to do now is bury the dead and take extra security precautions to insure it does not happen again.

[Lackadaisical2]

Buddhism as a whole isn't non-violent in practice, Japan was majority Buddhist and they had no problem killing millions of Chinese, for example.

Japan is a somewhat... special case.

Most of its population practices Buddhism AND Shintoism together.

They still practice Buddhism though.

How about Cambodia or Burma? Vietnam...?
The history of the Dalai Lama's order in Tibet isn't even particularly... friendly. People do bad things regardless of their religion, both Christianity and Buddhism preach non-violence, doesn't stop being form being dicks.

[Alterrea]

Has anyone been to FoxNews? The comments were terrific. Everyone was saying it was an 'evil mooslim'...and then reports came out is was a right-wing Christian fundamentalist with blue eyes and blond hair. Very awkward couple of minutes.
Seriously, though, this was a horrible event. I guess what we need to do now is bury the dead and take extra security precautions to insure it does not happen again.

We have to ensure that one billion people will not be blamed on, because of the actions of a single bastard or a little group of them.

This type of actions is very diffult to prevent. One single insane can kill dozens of people. It's the same that happened in the USA at Oklahoma City or at Columbine. The difference is that this island is isolated and the police arrived very, very late.