Bachmann: Ex-gay clinic "cured" gays

[Glorious Freedonia]

So if God says you must execute people without trial, then you must. If you don't, you are sinning, and God does not allow sin.

I guess so. Glorious Freedonia, God just told me that you are wrong, and told me to tell you to stop sinning.

Something tells me that you are false prophesying and you should take that back. It is highly blasphemous! Do not play around with 10 commandment level stuff. That is a big spiritual risk.

[Glorious Freedonia]

Each people can certainly pass on its own lessons to its posterity.

Mmkay. And I say all Jews are mentally and spiritually ill and must be cured, and forced into a better life. And this must happen, of course, as my tradition commands it, and all must adhere to my tradition, as is tradition.

What is your tradition there troll? Are you a nazi are something?

[Glorious Freedonia]

What the hell? Even if that is true, why should they not get a trial? A little procedural due process never hurt anyone.

Because God says so, remember? The Bible is His Word—every comma, period and semicolon.

Umm that may be true to literalists. I also never saw anything ever saying that trials are bad. I think you are trolling here.

[Glorious Freedonia]

I'm just waiting for the countertroll to come so that I can countercountertroll the countertroll.

No. The point is, since my opponent believes in God, I am using the concept of God to show to him/her the absurdity of his/her arguments.

He doesn't "believe" in anything, at least anything that's seriously being discussed. He tried to, legitimately, argue that it's ok to kill your kids if you think god is telling you to.

This isn't an "argument" and you're not going to "win" anything by engaging in it. GF is a troll, nothing more, nothing less. And a poor one at that.

NeoArt, I am not a troll. That is insulting. The lesson of Abraham and Isaac is at least twofold. First God comes first in our loyalties. Second, obedience to God is a good thing. Call me a troll all you like if that makes you happy but I am not one and you just come off like a jerk.

[Geniasis]

If they don't have empirical evidence that the Holy Spirit gave them the required magical spells to cure those filthy gays, I ain't believin' jack shit.

There's only one way to cure 'em, and that's God's way.

Or, at least his loopy brother's way. Did you know he thinks he's a ghost of all things? Pfft, HS, what can you expect from him, right?

I'm just saying, "cure homosexuality" ain't on any cleric spell list I've ever seen. Also, why do gay people get all the bondage? That's so not fair.

[Andaluciae]

20 bucks to the first adventurous soul who takes whatever drug Bachmann is on, and records a diary of its effects.

[Gauthier]

If they don't have empirical evidence that the Holy Spirit gave them the required magical spells to cure those filthy gays, I ain't believin' jack shit.

There's only one way to cure 'em, and that's God's way.

Or, at least his loopy brother's way. Did you know he thinks he's a ghost of all things? Pfft, HS, what can you expect from him, right?

I'm just saying, "cure homosexuality" ain't on any cleric spell list I've ever seen.

And let's face it, "Turn Gay" simply sends out the wrong message.

Also, why do gay people get all the bondage? That's so not fair.

Maybe it's part of their Fashion Sense?

[Unhealthy2]

Obedience to God is not a bad thing.

What if god is evil? What if god doesn't give us any commands at all? What if god does give good commands, but the commands of god don't come from the bible?

Seriously, you assume several absurd things:

1. That this vast, possibly infinite universe has an intelligent creator behind it that is even more complex than it is.
2. That the creator of the possibly infinite universe cares specifically about one species on one planet in one galaxy.
3. That the creator issues direct commands to this species.
4. That the creator always issues GOOD commands to this species.

If even one of those is false, your notion of obedience falls apart.

[Coccygia]

Auschwitz cured gays.

[Rhodmhire]

I'm just saying, "cure homosexuality" ain't on any cleric spell list I've ever seen.

I'm sure your basic 3rd level "Remove Curse" spell will do the trick.

Also, why do gay people get all the bondage? That's so not fair.

Agreed. Sadly, the fight for bondage equality seems more and more like a lost cause each and every day.

Damn gay agenda.

[Xirius]

Auschwitz cured gays.

You may be up to something, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki most likely also cured some.
All we need is a total nuclear holocaust and the problem is solved!

[Glorious Freedonia]

Obedience to God is not a bad thing.

What if god is evil? What if god doesn't give us any commands at all? What if god does give good commands, but the commands of god don't come from the bible?

Seriously, you assume several absurd things:

1. That this vast, possibly infinite universe has an intelligent creator behind it that is even more complex than it is.
2. That the creator of the possibly infinite universe cares specifically about one species on one planet in one galaxy.
3. That the creator issues direct commands to this species.
4. That the creator always issues GOOD commands to this species.

If even one of those is false, your notion of obedience falls apart.

God is the source of all. He is the source of the good and the bad. That is his deal. Our deal is that he is the boss and we are his servants. All discussion of good and evil needs to be within these parameters. This is why it is called monotheism.

[Unhealthy2]

God is the source of all. He is the source of he good and the bad. That is his deal. Our deal is that he is the boss and we are his servants. All discussion of good and evil needs to be within these parameters. This is why it is called monotheism.

1. Prove that there is a god.
2. So basically, you're saying that might makes right? Sorry, but no, it doesn't.

[Globexanter]

Auschwitz cured gays.

You may be up to something, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki most likely also cured some.
All we need is a total nuclear holocaust and the problem is solved!

Problem is, that would also kill all the non-homosexuals...

Oops.

[Xirius]

You may be up to something, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki most likely also cured some.
All we need is a total nuclear holocaust and the problem is solved!

Problem is, that would also kill all the non-homosexuals...

Oops.

Indeed! No more problems for anyone!

[Geniasis]

As a christian, I do believe it is a choice to be gay or not. And yeah, the Bible does say that being gay is a sin, but really???

This is why Christians are called hypocrits, unintelligent, etc. A lot of christians seem to think that because acording to our Bible, being gay is a sin, means that we are suppose to outlaw it in our country, and then practically bash gays! Using that very same logic, christians should then also being trying to outlaw lying, premarital sex, coveting, jealousy, etc!

The Bible teaches Christians to love others, not to bash them. Jesus hung out and talked with all kinds of people, many really messed up sinners, and he didn't bash them. Instead he told them parables with salvation message in them. The parables didn't make any one feel guilty or like they were being bashed. IN fact the parables were meant to show that they were loved.

This is why I am a Libertarian. The Bible teaches we have a freewill. It might be wrong for me to be gay, to do drugs, etc, but that is between me and my creator. As long as I do not infringe on the rights of others, I should be allowed to do what I want.

Free will ftw.

And btw I don't think it is a conscious choice to be gay or straight. You don't just receive letters of acceptance from Gay University, Straight College and Bisexual Institution, and then choose one. Be honest and tell me you didn't consciously choose to be straight. Sexual orientation is a combination of nature and nurture, just like any other human characteristic like height and weight and so on.

What? Now the gays have a whole university while we just have a college (probably community to boot!)?

Goddammit, gays.

[Globexanter]

Problem is, that would also kill all the non-homosexuals...

Oops.

Indeed! No more problems for anyone!

We could start by Africa, not too much we would miss from nuking them. And think of all the money aid agencies will save!

[Geniasis]

Well, mostly because it's asinine. Crack addiction ruins lives and usurps the users freewill. Murder violates the victim's rights. Consensual homosexual acts do neither.



Homosexuality isn't wrong because it doesn't harm anyone or violate the rights of anyone involved.

This is not a subject about "rights". This is a subject about "wrongs". I was discussing what I propose to be a fact and that is that most of us are susceptible to some temptations to commit evil acts that do not have the slightest effect on others. My suspicion is that some of us come up with excuses for ourselves or others who succumb to these temptations by saying that these folks were destined to do these evil acts instead of people who just succumbed to temptations that have no effect upon the rest of us. Instead of recognizing evil and taking a stand against it, it is far easier to make up excuses and justifications.

Even easier to just say "It's wrong it's wrong" when you can't find facts to back up your argument.

[Furious Grandmothers]

What if god is evil? What if god doesn't give us any commands at all? What if god does give good commands, but the commands of god don't come from the bible?

Seriously, you assume several absurd things:

1. That this vast, possibly infinite universe has an intelligent creator behind it that is even more complex than it is.
2. That the creator of the possibly infinite universe cares specifically about one species on one planet in one galaxy.
3. That the creator issues direct commands to this species.
4. That the creator always issues GOOD commands to this species.

If even one of those is false, your notion of obedience falls apart.

God is the source of all. He is the source of the good and the bad. That is his deal. Our deal is that he is the boss and we are his servants. All discussion of good and evil needs to be within these parameters. This is why it is called monotheism.

Gee Glorious Freedonia, you've been missing on this thread for a while, nice to have you back.
1) What is your definition of good, and what is your definition of bad?
2) Can anything be partly good and partly bad, more good than bad, more bad than good?

[Diseased Imaginings]

2. So basically, you're saying that might makes right? Sorry, but no, it doesn't.

hmm, many posters on here would disagree with you.

[Glorious Freedonia]

God is the source of all. He is the source of he good and the bad. That is his deal. Our deal is that he is the boss and we are his servants. All discussion of good and evil needs to be within these parameters. This is why it is called monotheism.

1. Prove that there is a god.
2. So basically, you're saying that might makes right? Sorry, but no, it doesn't.

1. I can't.
2. At some point it does. If you create something you are the boss of it. That is different than might making right. It is about status. God is supreme and he is in a category of one. He created men as equals. He did not make men equal to God. The only argument that you could make from a biblical perspective is that once men tasted the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil they became like God if the serpent was correct. The loss of mortality though makes it seem that the serpent was wrong and that it was a deceiver. If the serpent is right, then maybe you are too. If the serpent is wrong, then you would be wrong too. I checked with Family Feud and the Survey says Serpent and you are wrong.

[Unhealthy2]

1. I can't.
2. At some point it does. If you create something you are the boss of it. That is different than might making right. It is about status. God is supreme and he is in a category of one. He created men as equals. He did not make men equal to God. The only argument that you could make from a biblical perspective is that once men tasted the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil they became like God if the serpent was correct. The loss of mortality though makes it seem that the serpent was wrong and that it was a deceiver. If the serpent is right, then maybe you are too. If the serpent is wrong, then you would be wrong too. I checked with Family Feud and the Survey says Serpent and you are wrong.

1. Then it's irrelevant.

2. Okay, creating something makes you the boss of it? How does that follow? Do parents own their children, even once the children have matured and become their own beings? No. You don't have the right to exert complete control over something you create if that something gains self-awareness. Once it does that, it becomes a being in and of itself.

[Glorious Freedonia]

God is the source of all. He is the source of the good and the bad. That is his deal. Our deal is that he is the boss and we are his servants. All discussion of good and evil needs to be within these parameters. This is why it is called monotheism.

Gee Glorious Freedonia, you've been missing on this thread for a while, nice to have you back.
1) What is your definition of good, and what is your definition of bad?
2) Can anything be partly good and partly bad, more good than bad, more bad than good?

1) Good and Evil or Good and Bad are rather hard to define. I think philosophers have written thousands of pages debating such definitions. I could try to come up with one but then the more I would think about it the more I would need to put in all kinds of exceptions and qualifications. I certainly think that there is a difference between bad and evil and a difference between good and righteous. I could probably write a very long post on this but it would be the thing that if I were to do justice to the question, I would need to spend a lot of time on it and the more I thought about it and the more I discussed it with other people, then the more I would probably have to come back and edit it. All I can really say in a brief way is that someone who says that the definitions are easy by using either a 100% objective or 100% subjective guide to answering this question would be wrong.
2. Yes. However, the difference between bad and evil is such that you can have something that is never evil and righteous. All moral dilemnas have a good and a bad side. This is different though than one where sin is involved. That is the real beauty of sin. We can have our moral dilemnas and be on either side in good faith and be without sin so long as we avoid sin.

[Geniasis]

Your friend has more spiritual risks.

What is a "spiritual risk" and how can you demonstrate that gay sex is spiritually risky?

It shouldn't be a problem. Just wear a spiritual condom and I'm sure you won't get spiritual AIDS.

[Globexanter]

Last time I checked, this was a thread about a Clinic and homosexuality, not religion and how something is bad and evil...