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Do animals have religion?

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Furious Grandmothers
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Do animals have religion?

Postby Furious Grandmothers » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:53 am

From all the religion (and lack thereof) threads sprouting out, I surmise that religion is a really hot topic on NSG. Wait, that may be an understatement. Well, I'm wondering if any scientific study has been conducted to see if animals have religious beliefs as well, in that they believe in a higher being. Alternatively, do YOU think that animals believe in higher beings? Or have the capability to do so? I am of the opinion that since they are closely enough related to us, apes could have the ability to believe. I'll be off to search for scientific studies now! What do you think, or even better, do you know of any scientific studies with regards to this?
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:55 am

Do you believe in Ceiling Cat? Or are you a Basement Cat worshipper? :p
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?
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Angleter
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Postby Angleter » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:56 am

My cat's a member of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. He's previously been a Wahhabi, a Scientologist, a Moonie, and a member of Heaven's Gate.
Last edited by Angleter on Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
[align=center]"I gotta tell you, this is just crazy, huh! This is just nuts, OK! Jeezo man."
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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:00 am

It's a rare animal which can recognise itself in a mirror.

It would be perfectly reasonable to say that animals experience 'religious feeling,' which is just a particular sensation, but I doubt they can conceive of a real concept of a higher being.
"Twats love flags." - Yootopia
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:26 am

Well, perhaps animals which are capable of imagination, and iirc cats can dream?
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:27 am

My dog probobly worships food.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.
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Ridicularia
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Postby Ridicularia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:27 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:From all the religion (and lack thereof) threads sprouting out, I surmise that religion is a really hot topic on NSG. Wait, that may be an understatement. Well, I'm wondering if any scientific study has been conducted to see if animals have religious beliefs as well, in that they believe in a higher being. Alternatively, do YOU think that animals believe in higher beings? Or have the capability to do so? I am of the opinion that since they are closely enough related to us, apes could have the ability to believe. I'll be off to search for scientific studies now! What do you think, or even better, do you know of any scientific studies with regards to this?


There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:30 am

Ridicularia wrote:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:From all the religion (and lack thereof) threads sprouting out, I surmise that religion is a really hot topic on NSG. Wait, that may be an understatement. Well, I'm wondering if any scientific study has been conducted to see if animals have religious beliefs as well, in that they believe in a higher being. Alternatively, do YOU think that animals believe in higher beings? Or have the capability to do so? I am of the opinion that since they are closely enough related to us, apes could have the ability to believe. I'll be off to search for scientific studies now! What do you think, or even better, do you know of any scientific studies with regards to this?


There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.

Wow, sure, thanks! Will be intrigued if they turn out to be something like cargo cults.
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:31 am

No.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:No.

I'm interested in arguments from both sides, why do you think animals don't have religions?
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Ridicularia
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Postby Ridicularia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:38 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:
Ridicularia wrote:
There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.

Wow, sure, thanks! Will be intrigued if they turn out to be something like cargo cults.



Well, not quite the scientific articles I was looking for, but hopefully these will do for the moment. I'll see if I can find an actual essay as soon as I can connect to my school's network.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2007/01/ ... index.html
http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/theol ... _apes.html



EDIT: well, I found the citation I was looking for, but not the article. It's a little old, but it's Jane Goodall's actual account of the ritual display in front of the storm.

Goodall, J. 1975. The chimpanzee: a model for the behaviour of early man? Quest for man. V.
Goodall. London, Pall Mall Press: 130-169
Last edited by Ridicularia on Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby SaintB » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:39 am

Well cats worship themselves... dogs worship whomever holds the leash. So that's two down.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:42 am

My mom has a theory that birds are sun-worshippers.
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Matthew De Vareil
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Postby Matthew De Vareil » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:43 am

I have five fish. One is a Buddhist, one is a Shinto, one is a Lutheran, one is a Hindu, and one is a Wiccan.

I'm a Catholic.
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Chinese Regions
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Postby Chinese Regions » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:44 am

They would have to evolve them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity
There is also B.F Skinner's pigeon experiment, which suggests not so much religion but superstition in pigeons
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Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:45 am

They worship me and make pilgrimages to my house.

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Oterro
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Postby Oterro » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:46 am

Ridicularia wrote:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:From all the religion (and lack thereof) threads sprouting out, I surmise that religion is a really hot topic on NSG. Wait, that may be an understatement. Well, I'm wondering if any scientific study has been conducted to see if animals have religious beliefs as well, in that they believe in a higher being. Alternatively, do YOU think that animals believe in higher beings? Or have the capability to do so? I am of the opinion that since they are closely enough related to us, apes could have the ability to believe. I'll be off to search for scientific studies now! What do you think, or even better, do you know of any scientific studies with regards to this?


There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.


Wasn't that ritualistic behaviour devouring baby chimpanzees?
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Lucent Dawn
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Postby Lucent Dawn » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:48 am

Elephants seem to show some religious-like behavior.
It's likely not actual religion, per se, but...
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Ridicularia
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Postby Ridicularia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:48 am

Oterro wrote:
Ridicularia wrote:
There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.


Wasn't that ritualistic behaviour devouring baby chimpanzees?


Nope, it was ritual displays in front of storms and waterfalls.
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Malshan
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Postby Malshan » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:49 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:No.

I'm interested in arguments from both sides, why do you think animals don't have religions?


First you have to prove that the animals in question are self-aware. The whole "I think, therefore I am" business. Then having that proved, you'd move on to higher cognitive functions. Reasoning, for one. Animals do display reasoning (in some cases). Others, well, not so much. This is where we have to infer that some animals are smarter than others (duh).
But religion is an entirely separate topic. Ritualistic behavior in chimps could be attributed to a hierarchy/caste/status. Or it simply may be habitual. But to believe in a higher deity, animals would need to be self-aware (which some are), display some kind of society (which some do), display higher cognitive functions such as reasoning (some...to an extent.). I don't know of any animals that show all of these. Besides humans, of course.
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Knowlandia
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Postby Knowlandia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:51 am

I doubt animals have the capacity to wonder about there origins and creation.
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Call to power
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Postby Call to power » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:51 am

Ridicularia wrote:There's evidence of ritualistic behavior in chimpanzees. I'll find the source, if you're interested.


and outside of our closest ancestors we have elephants which show a death ritual but I would be cautious of linking to this to any thoughts of the afterlife without the use of religious artifacts or what have you.

I mean sure elephants mourn but do they hold the understanding that they will someday end? I would factor that they don't by the lack of evidence the same would also be true of my cat believing that I am just a really really good scavenger over my fridge being a magical entity
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The Anglo-Saxon Empire
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Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:51 am

My dog pisses in its own drinking water. I figure that it must be a religious ritual, either that or it is stupid.
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Call to power
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Postby Call to power » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:56 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:Well, perhaps animals which are capable of imagination, and iirc cats can dream?


dreaming is not quite the same as abstract imagination

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:My dog pisses in its own drinking water. I figure that it must be a religious ritual, either that or it is stupid.


your dog has probably seen you peeing in the toilet
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Ridicularia
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Postby Ridicularia » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:11 am

Call to power wrote:and outside of our closest ancestors we have elephants which show a death ritual but I would be cautious of linking to this to any thoughts of the afterlife without the use of religious artifacts or what have you.

I mean sure elephants mourn but do they hold the understanding that they will someday end? I would factor that they don't by the lack of evidence the same would also be true of my cat believing that I am just a really really good scavenger over my fridge being a magical entity


I guess it depends on what you define as "religion". I mean, I think they understand what death is, but if religion is defined as a codified belief system with artifacts and clear view of an "afterlife", I guess they don't have it. If it's just a sense of awe and reverence for the world around them, with beliefs that attempt to explain the phenomenon they see, then I think they do.
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