Gun Rights

[Der Teutoniker]

what right, if any, we have to bear arms.

Citizens of every community have the right to secure their own protection from threats both foreign, and domestic through the use of any means necessary.

The right to bear arms, for all people, is almost absolute.

[Der Teutoniker]

i think that we should be able to carry guns, just not like automatic or semi-automatic weapons. sure a handgun is fine but i think that the bigger guns should be kept in wars and not a house.

And what if the government tries to oppress you? You know that they have automatic weapons, right?

It is only natural that citizens should have access to any form of weapon their government has access to.

[Tsal-Kar]

i think that we should be able to carry guns, just not like automatic or semi-automatic weapons. sure a handgun is fine but i think that the bigger guns should be kept in wars and not a house.

You realize that semi-auto means one round fired per trigger pull, and that very few handguns are not semi-automatic? Also, do you have any interest in hunting? I ask because while pistols can be used for hunting some game, rifles and shotguns are almost always much easier to use (especially when the combination is shotgun+some form of bird)

[Der Teutoniker]

You realize that semi-auto means one round fired per trigger pull, and that very few handguns are not semi-automatic? Also, do you have any interest in hunting? I ask because while pistols can be used for hunting some game, rifles and shotguns are almost always much easier to use (especially when the combination is shotgun+some form of bird)

I think all bird-hunting should be done with single-projectile rifles. Because I'm sadistic like that!

[Pomplamouse]

i think that we should be able to carry guns, just not like automatic or semi-automatic weapons. sure a handgun is fine but i think that the bigger guns should be kept in wars and not a house.

You realize that semi-auto means one round fired per trigger pull, and that very few handguns are not semi-automatic? Also, do you have any interest in hunting? I ask because while pistols can be used for hunting some game, rifles and shotguns are almost always much easier to use (especially when the combination is shotgun+some form of bird)

ok im not that knowledgeable about guns i just think that we should ban them. i mean at least thats my opinion

[Der Teutoniker]

ok im not that knowledgeable about guns i just think that we should ban them. i mean at least thats my opinion

Why should we ban guns? Is it because only the State has the right to protect it's own interest? Is it because you simply hate lower/middle class people? Or is there some other reason?

Edit: and why do you support the notion that law-abiding citizens shouldn't have firearms, while criminals have plentiful access to firearms? Are criminals better citizens, or simply more trustworthy in relation to gun ownership?

[Tsal-Kar]

what right, if any, we have to bear arms.

Citizens of every community have the right to secure their own protection from threats both foreign, and domestic through the use of any means necessary.

The right to bear arms, for all people, is almost absolute.

Although we do have an absolute, universal, natural right to defend ourselves, and to use whatever we wish to do so (at least, I believe so), the legal right to do so is by no means universal, or even common - frighteningly few nations grant you that right, and even fewer do not restrict that right. Also, in those nations that do grant their citizens that right, there are always many who argue that the people should not have that right.

[Pomplamouse]

ok im not that knowledgeable about guns i just think that we should ban them. i mean at least thats my opinion

Why should we ban guns? Is it because only the State has the right to protect it's own interest? Is it because you simply hate lower/middle class people? Or is there some other reason?

first of all i am apart of the middle class so obviously i dont hate them. and i think that if we banned guns then then there wouldnt be so much violence. of course there would be some but people would go around weilding guns and shooting at everything they see.

[Alyakia]

You realize that semi-auto means one round fired per trigger pull, and that very few handguns are not semi-automatic? Also, do you have any interest in hunting? I ask because while pistols can be used for hunting some game, rifles and shotguns are almost always much easier to use (especially when the combination is shotgun+some form of bird)

I think all bird-hunting should be done with single-projectile rifles. Because I'm sadistic like that!

Is it because you simply hate lower/middle class people? Or is there some other reason?

ahahahhaha what

[Alyakia]

Citizens of every community have the right to secure their own protection from threats both foreign, and domestic through the use of any means necessary.

The right to bear arms, for all people, is almost absolute.

Although we do have an absolute, universal, natural right to defend ourselves, and to use whatever we wish to do so (at least, I believe so), the legal right to do so is by no means universal, or even common - frighteningly few nations grant you that right, and even fewer do not restrict that right. Also, in those nations that do grant their citizens that right, there are always many who argue that the people should not have that right.

Which nations do not restrict that right?

[Der Teutoniker]

Although we do have an absolute, universal, natural right to defend ourselves, and to use whatever we wish to do so (at least, I believe so), the legal right to do so is by no means universal, or even common - frighteningly few nations grant you that right, and even fewer do not restrict that right. Also, in those nations that do grant their citizens that right, there are always many who argue that the people should not have that right.

I'm sorry, I was implying more of a "natural right" argument. On the other hand, fools who would consent to live in a community where they cannot control their own government deserve any stripping of rights that follows.

[Der Teutoniker]

first of all i am apart of the middle class so obviously i dont hate them. and i think that if we banned guns then then there wouldnt be so much violence. of course there would be some but people would go around weilding guns and shooting at everything they see.

Umm... as it is, it is only the criminals going around "shooting everything they see". People who legally own guns do that in only the most statistically insignificant cases. Banning guns will not change the amount of access that criminals have to the guns that they already have illegally... it will just mean that legal gun carriers, those who use guns responsibly cannot have them.

In this case, what you think of as an opinion is literally incorrect. Banning guns will not reduce gun crime - nor will it reduce illegal access to guns. In fact, it will probably increase illegal gun ownership.

[Der Teutoniker]

ahahahhaha what

Middle, and lower class people are the first to get dicked over by tyranny. Access to guns reduces the amount of tyranny that can be pushed on a people.

[Der Teutoniker]

Which nations do not restrict that right?

He did not say any nation did not restrict that right. Only a few grant it at all, but they still restrict it.

[Pomplamouse]

first of all i am apart of the middle class so obviously i dont hate them. and i think that if we banned guns then then there wouldnt be so much violence. of course there would be some but people would go around weilding guns and shooting at everything they see.

Umm... as it is, it is only the criminals going around "shooting everything they see". People who legally own guns do that in only the most statistically insignificant cases. Banning guns will not change the amount of access that criminals have to the guns that they already have illegally... it will just mean that legal gun carriers, those who use guns responsibly cannot have them.

In this case, what you think of as an opinion is literally incorrect. Banning guns will not reduce gun crime - nor will it reduce illegal access to guns. In fact, it will probably increase illegal gun ownership.

i think that we need to crack down on illegal gun sales and also regular people who do have guns if they get mad they could very possibly shoot someone over a pack of smokes. also i think that saying that only the criminals are the ones weilding guns is a big generalization. and yes i realize that its a generalization saying that people shoot others over a pack of smokes. but the point is that if we crack down on illegal gun sales then the violence could potentially go down.

[Alyakia]

ahahahhaha what

Middle, and lower class people are the first to get dicked over by tyranny. Access to guns reduces the amount of tyranny that can be pushed on a people.

The government, at this point, could literally kick your door in without a warrant and throw you in a black site without a trial indefinitely. The political system is without a doubt irreversably corrupt. When do the people start resisting? What sort of tyranny are you thinking of?

[Alyakia]

i think that we need to crack down on illegal gun sales and also regular people who do have guns if they get mad they could very possibly shoot someone over a pack of smokes.

....Do I sound like this?

[Pomplamouse]

i think that we need to crack down on illegal gun sales and also regular people who do have guns if they get mad they could very possibly shoot someone over a pack of smokes.

....Do I sound like this?

im not saying that everyone who carries a gun is like that, it was just an example

[President Mathias]

Protected by second amendment. Case closed here in the states.
[/thread]

Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I believe that guns should be legal. And to those people who say simply take a self-defense course, gun > karate. If someone is pointing a handgun at you, I don't care how skilled you are, there is a very high chance they'll pull the trigger before you can fully move out of its path.

[Alyakia]

Protected by second amendment. Case closed here in the states.
[/thread]

Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I believe that guns should be legal. And to those people who say simply take a self-defense course, gun > karate. If someone is pointing a handgun at you, I don't care how skilled you are, there is a very high chance they'll pull the trigger before you can fully move out of its path.

We can never question, examine or amend the Constitution. Never.

If someone is pointing a handgun at you, I don't care how skilled you are, there is a very high chance they'll pull the trigger before you can even grip your gun.

Scenarios! Scenarios! Scenarios! The great circle of life.

[Der Teutoniker]

i think that we need to crack down on illegal gun sales and also regular people who do have guns if they get mad they could very possibly shoot someone over a pack of smokes. also i think that saying that only the criminals are the ones weilding guns is a big generalization. and yes i realize that its a generalization saying that people shoot others over a pack of smokes. but the point is that if we crack down on illegal gun sales then the violence could potentially go down.

We do crack down on illegal gun sales. The problem is that they do not advertise to the police when they open a new illegal gun market.

You show me the statistics for how many deaths/year in America are caused by people who are carrying legally owned, legally carried firearms. It doesn't happen, and pretending it does is not a good argument.

I didn't say only criminals wield guns. Plenty of law abiding citizens wield guns - they simply do not commit gun crimes (which is to say, they commit an insignificant fraction of gun crimes - and they are punished accordingly.)

It is not a generalization to say that legal gun owners carrying legally registered firearms legally shoot others over a pack of smokes. It is simply incorrect.

You made up a bullshit claim to counter my statistical fact. I'd suggest you do better next time you want to argue.

Edit: As I said, we do "crack down on" illegal gun sales - it's just that we don't know when they are going down. It's not like we can make it any more illegal than illegal. Additionally, restricting legal firearm consumption would not decrease this rate of violence, or illegality. False premise, false conclusion.

[Der Teutoniker]

The government, at this point, could literally kick your door in without a warrant and throw you in a black site without a trial indefinitely. The political system is without a doubt irreversably corrupt. When do the people start resisting? What sort of tyranny are you thinking of?

They could, but not legally. When they legally can, then they are tyrannical. Go go Gadget Strawman!

[Alyakia]

The government, at this point, could literally kick your door in without a warrant and throw you in a black site without a trial indefinitely. The political system is without a doubt irreversably corrupt. When do the people start resisting? What sort of tyranny are you thinking of?

They could, but not legally. When they legally can, then they are tyrannical. Go go Gadget Strawman!

No, they can, legally. Go go Gadget Strawman!

Answer please.

[Der Teutoniker]

....Do I sound like this?

No. That post was... just horrific.

[The Soviet Technocracy]

The government, at this point, could literally kick your door in without a warrant and throw you in a black site without a trial indefinitely. The political system is without a doubt irreversably corrupt. When do the people start resisting? What sort of tyranny are you thinking of?

They could, but not legally. When they legally can, then they are tyrannical. Go go Gadget Strawman! :palm:

They can, though.

Legally, the US Government can suspend habeas corpus, free speech, round up dissenters, and throw them in prison. It's some obscure law under the whole martial law, and national emergency bit for COG. Guns can protect citizens from tyranny for only so long. That time has been gone for about a century in the United States, and tyranny has firmly rooted itself here.