Gun Rights

[Der Teutoniker]

Have you ever noticed how the people who say things like "there is no such thing as "too far" when combating evil" often times end up doing horrifiv things in the name of "good"?

No, I haven't noticed that. A source would be great.

As for myself (I think I'm the only who says that... that I know of) I have not committed what you call "horrific" things in the name of Good.

[Alyakia]

You shouldn't need "concerned citizens" with guns to help you if you need it. This is why I made the Somalia comment earlier.

I think Urban Sprawl is likely the biggest problem. Cities are too big, and not laid out for quick travel to any one place necessarily.

Additionally, whether or not we "need" concerned citizens, that we have them is a heartwarming feeling. And under no circumstances should the right of the concerned citizen to look after his community be infringed upon. Such an idea is utterly disgusting, and inhuman.

There is such a thing as over stepping your bounds. If you want to be a police officer, go become one. Be a "Police Community Support Officer" if you feel like it.

[Alyakia]

Untrained people wandering the streets looking for crime with no actualy authority to stop crime that isn't murder or rape doesn't lead to very good places.

Oh yes, I hate him, I totally do, despite the fact I said that it's always good to have citizens take an active interest in the saftey of the community and said he's an older/wiser figure as far as I know. I literally hate him. Hate him for his guns. Die gun owners. Die.

1 I was trained by the military.

2. There is citizens arrest. You witness a crime you can detain a person until the police arrive.

Did the military teach you conflcit resolution? How to deal with drunks? With domestic disputes?

[Alyakia]

Have you ever noticed how the people who say things like "there is no such thing as "too far" when combating evil" often times end up doing horrifiv things in the name of "good"?

No, I haven't noticed that. A source would be great.

As for myself (I think I'm the only who says that... that I know of) I have not committed what you call "horrific" things in the name of Good.

Would you that "there is no such thing as "too far" when combating evil" is a mutation of "the means justify the ends"?

[Der Teutoniker]

1 I was trained by the military.

2. There is citizens arrest. You witness a crime you can detain a person until the police arrive.

Doesn't matter, you are a child-cowboy-wannabe on the inside, and all your actions will accomplish is adding more death, misery, and crime to the world. And that you walk around your community with a gun is bad in and of itself for some reason apparently.

Obviously that was sarcasm... like I said, I'm a big fan of your community spirit. If we had more people like you on the streets, residences would be safer places.

[Hossaim]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

[Der Teutoniker]

Would you that "there is no such thing as "too far" when combating evil" is a mutation of "the means justify the ends"?

No. I would argue that in the defeat of evil, no act is too extreme, and no cost is to large. The evil need not be defeated, for the fight to have been worth it.

[Alyakia]

1 I was trained by the military.

2. There is citizens arrest. You witness a crime you can detain a person until the police arrive.

Doesn't matter, you are a child-cowboy-wannabe on the inside, and all your actions will accomplish is adding more death, misery, and crime to the world. And that you walk around your community with a gun is bad in and of itself for some reason apparently.

Obviously that was sarcasm... like I said, I'm a big fan of your community spirit. If we had more people like you on the streets, residences would be safer places.

Community spirit is good. If only... We could harness it in a safe manner and give people real authority... Nah that's a stupid idea. Armed crusaders patrolling the streets is the only option.

[Der Teutoniker]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

Actually, banning guns means more crime.

Additionally, look at the UK, they banned guns... their murder rate has not significantly decreased. I suggest that instead of taking the least moral (and effective) of all possible opinions, that you actually think about the subject, and do just a little bit of research.

[Alyakia]

Would you that "there is no such thing as "too far" when combating evil" is a mutation of "the means justify the ends"?

No. I would argue that in the defeat of evil, no act is too extreme, and no cost is to large. The evil need not be defeated, for the fight to have been worth it.

Evils like American Imperalism and the Zionist Conspiracy?

You don't seen how subjective definitions of evil could lead to less than pleasant things?

[Marshmellowstan]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

If you banned guns people would use crossbows to kill other people.
In my opinion if you ban guns people would find some other way of killing animals and other people.

[Der Teutoniker]

Community spirit is good. If only... We could harness it in a safe manner and give people real authority... Nah that's a stupid idea. Armed crusaders patrolling the streets is the only option.

How is what he is doing unsafe? Care to show me the records of the harm his patrolling has caused? Additionally, though you did not listen the last two times, he does have real authority. Nor does he view himself as a crusader.

Nah, all that is stupid, trolling with ridiculously wrong judgements is the only option.

[Alyakia]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

Actually, banning guns means more crime.

Additionally, look at the UK, they banned guns... their murder rate has not significantly decreased. I suggest that instead of taking the least moral (and effective) of all possible opinions, that you actually think about the subject, and do just a little bit of research.

The murder rate for Scotland and Japan is much much much lower than the murder rate for the U.S., mind you.

[Dododecapod]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

No. Less guns does not mean less death. The results in countries where they did ban guns refute this position.
Crime rates, and thus death rates, are more the result of cultural and legal factors. Want to really reduce deaths in the USA? Legalize and control all drugs. Without the Drug War we are losing, a major source of violence disappears.

[Alyakia]

Community spirit is good. If only... We could harness it in a safe manner and give people real authority... Nah that's a stupid idea. Armed crusaders patrolling the streets is the only option.

How is what he is doing unsafe? Care to show me the records of the harm his patrolling has caused? Additionally, though you did not listen the last two times, he does have real authority. Nor does he view himself as a crusader.

Nah, all that is stupid, trolling with ridiculously wrong judgements is the only option.

Was he trained in conflict resolution?

[Der Teutoniker]

If you banned guns people would use crossbows to kill other people.
In my opinion if you ban guns people would find some other way of killing animals and other people.

People managed to kill each other just fine before guns came about.

I have a feeling that we could relearn some of the lost arts. I own several swords, a scramasax, and a handaxe that I practice with. I could give lessons!

[Der Teutoniker]

The murder rate for Scotland and Japan is much much much lower than the murder rate for the U.S., mind you.

And?

We are discussing guns, not murder.

[Alyakia]

The murder rate for Scotland and Japan is much much much lower than the murder rate for the U.S., mind you.

And?

We are discussing guns, not murder.

"Additionally, look at the UK, they banned guns... their murder rate has not significantly decreased."

You literally just bloody said.

[Der Teutoniker]

Was he trained in conflict resolution?

What does that have to do with anything?

You start answering some questions that people ask you. You show me the harm he has caused by protecting his community, and then we can discuss how bad of a person this batman-cowboy-crusader is.

And it's actually pretty possible that he was. I believe they teach conflict resolution in the military... seems like they should anyway.

[Der Teutoniker]

You literally just bloody said.

Correct. They banned guns, and no fewer people are getting murdered.

Maybe that means that guns alone are not teh ebilz?

[Alyakia]

Was he trained in conflict resolution?

What does that have to do with anything?

You start answering some questions that people ask you. You show me the harm he has caused by protecting his community, and then we can discuss how bad of a person this batman-cowboy-crusader is.

And it's actually pretty possible that he was. I believe they teach conflict resolution in the military... seems like they should anyway.

If you're patrolling the community and trying to prevent and ahdnle crime, you're going to have to be able to defuse situations. If all you can do is point a gun and fire it you're useless.

You show me the harm he has prevented. We're both talking in terms of potentionals.

So did you miss my post about the person in question? Where I said he was older/wiser as far as I know?

Well, we'll soon find out! Using the military as police has always worked out well anyway.

[Alyakia]

You literally just bloody said.

Correct. They banned guns, and no fewer people are getting murdered.

Maybe that means that guns alone are not teh ebilz?

Oh let's have the sources anyway. It's probably true anyway, not that you actually know what happened in the UK in regards to guns or whether I approve.

Yes, we've been over this. It means there is something wrong with your culture and country to the point you can't be trusted with guns. This is backed up pretty well by the fact police don't actually have to protect you.

[Der Teutoniker]

If you're patrolling the community and trying to prevent and ahdnle crime, you're going to have to be able to defuse situations. If all you can do is point a gun and fire it you're useless.

You show me the harm he has prevented. We're both talking in terms of potentionals.

So did you miss my post about the person in question? Where I said he was older/wiser as far as I know?

Well, we'll soon find out! Using the military as police has always worked out well anyway.

Just being on hand alone is likely enough to defuse the situation. Criminals don't want to be caught - pretty sure most of them would try to flee.

You made the claim that the sort of behavior he engages in causes harm. Back it up.

I did not miss it. Did you miss the times you called him a cowboy, crusader, or batman?

No one on this thread, that I am aware of, has advocated martial law. Go go Gadget Strawman!

[Der Teutoniker]

Yes, we've been over this. It means there is something wrong with your culture and country to the point you can't be trusted with guns. This is backed up pretty well by the fact police don't actually have to protect you.

Our culture does not matter. If you (a non-American) do not want to trust us with guns, come over here and forcefully remove every gun from the hands of Americans. If you cannot, or are unwilling to do that, then quit bitching about us not being trusted with guns. You aren't our nanny.

It's not the police's job to protect us. It is the job of every citizen to support mutual defense.

[Alyakia]

If you're patrolling the community and trying to prevent and ahdnle crime, you're going to have to be able to defuse situations. If all you can do is point a gun and fire it you're useless.

You show me the harm he has prevented. We're both talking in terms of potentionals.

So did you miss my post about the person in question? Where I said he was older/wiser as far as I know?

Well, we'll soon find out! Using the military as police has always worked out well anyway.

Just being on hand alone is likely enough to defuse the situation. Criminals don't want to be caught - pretty sure most of them would try to flee.

You made the claim that the sort of behavior he engages in causes harm. Back it up.


I did not miss it. Did you miss the times you called him a cowboy, crusader, or batman?

No one on this thread, that I am aware of, has advocated martial law. Go go Gadget Strawman!

Once upon my time my dad was drunk and violent. We called the cops. He decked them. Unless you believe that you will only ever deal with one or two kinds of crime within the community, the rarest kinds. Incidentally, this is why going our yourself is a terrible idea.

You really can't think of anyhting that could go wrong?

So that's a yes, you did miss it.