Gun Rights

[Alyakia]

1) What? Are all the teachers standing there, ready to draw their guns at all times? Prepared to use their pinpoint auccracy regardless of the stress? Didn't the boys have body armour and much much better weapons?

2a) Obviously. Can you get thousands of people in there? All in the open or in a series of straight corridors? Like my old 1400 student school or godknowshowmanypeople malls?

2b) No. Police stations are not not attacked because there are people with lots of guns in them. They are not attacked because they are very hard to move through due to locks. Did I mention the police station I was talking about had no guns whatsoever?

1) AFAIK, they had two shotguns, a pistol, and a pistol calibre carbine, no body armour and little training in their use.

2) Schools have locks too.

1) May as well just copy paste the entire thing. :v

"During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9."

2) When schools are open and all the students are moving, you can move with ease. Any locked rooms are empty of students. Even when this police station was open, I could not go anywhere without knowing the codes.

[Pomplamouse]

well you could have accepted the fact that i admitted that i made a mistake and been nice about it instead of rubbing it in my face. but you people from the GOP like to poke fun at the democrats, even if they do admit that they are wrong.

congrats you won.

I am not partisan, I vote for each candidate based on how I feel about them specifically. I carry no prejudice for democrats. And besides, your admission of defeat was hardly that. You said your assumption may have been premature. I was reassuring you that it was not premature, it was wrong. If you see that now, I am extremely happy for you.

well you seem like a right winger to me. also i dont need reassuring, and yes it was a premature assumtion meaning that i made a wrong statement that i assumed to be right. Which in this case it is subjective to opinions whether it is right or wrong.

[Der Teutoniker]

"During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9."

Not sure if you meant to... but you do know that is exactly what he said, right?

[Der Teutoniker]

well you seem like a right winger to me. also i dont need reassuring, and yes it was a premature assumtion meaning that i made a wrong statement that i assumed to be right. Which in this case it is subjective to opinions whether it is right or wrong.

Actually, you made a positive statement ("Banning guns will reduce gun crime/illegally owned guns"). The positive statement is not an opinion. You can think it's correct or not, but it is not subjective, it either is, or isn't true.

I understand why you would think I am a right-winger. I lean to both sides, in varying degrees.

[Pomplamouse]

well you seem like a right winger to me. also i dont need reassuring, and yes it was a premature assumtion meaning that i made a wrong statement that i assumed to be right. Which in this case it is subjective to opinions whether it is right or wrong.

Actually, you made a positive statement ("Banning guns will reduce gun crime/illegally owned guns"). The positive statement is not an opinion. You can think it's correct or not, but it is not subjective, it either is, or isn't true.

I understand why you would think I am a right-winger. I lean to both sides, in varying degrees.

the positive statement that you mentioned is an opinion...

[The Soviet Technocracy]

Actually, you made a positive statement ("Banning guns will reduce gun crime/illegally owned guns"). The positive statement is not an opinion. You can think it's correct or not, but it is not subjective, it either is, or isn't true.

I understand why you would think I am a right-winger. I lean to both sides, in varying degrees.

the positive statement that you mentioned is an opinion...

No, it wasn't.

It was a statement of "fact", and you were wrong.

1) AFAIK, they had two shotguns, a pistol, and a pistol calibre carbine, no body armour and little training in their use.

2) Schools have locks too.

1) May as well just copy paste the entire thing. :v

"During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9."

2) When schools are open and all the students are moving, you can move with ease. Any locked rooms are empty of students. Even when this police station was open, I could not go anywhere without knowing the codes.

1) So exactly what I said. Thank you.

2) Most PDs I've been to use manual locks with keys, not electronic ones, and the reason people don't attack police stations and go for schools is because police officers tend to carry guns, or have guns in armouries, and be trained in their use. Schools don't have that, so they're easy targets.

[Der Teutoniker]

the positive statement that you mentioned is an opinion...

"I like chocolate ice cream." is an opinion. With the exception of lying, or somehow being mistaken, such a claim cannot be wrong.

"Banning guns will reduce crime." represents an opinion about the ethics of gun control, but it also asserts a statement that is either true, or false. The statement can be 100% wrong. "I think guns should be banned." is an opinion.

[The Parkus Empire]

still banning guns means less guns,

Not really. Fewer target and sporting guns, perhaps, but I doubt guns meant to be used on people would see a drop in production rate.

less guns means less death,

Only if you're taking the guns out of the hands of the people who use them to kill. Banning guns in D.C. really hasn't helped.

less death means more good.

It means forcing criminals to buy all their weapons illegally, which means making it impossible to track purchases.

[President Mathias]

the positive statement that you mentioned is an opinion...

No, it wasn't.

It was a statement of "fact", and you were wrong.

1) May as well just copy paste the entire thing. :v

"During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9."

2) When schools are open and all the students are moving, you can move with ease. Any locked rooms are empty of students. Even when this police station was open, I could not go anywhere without knowing the codes.

1) So exactly what I said. Thank you.

2) Most PDs I've been to use manual locks with keys, not electronic ones, and the reason people don't attack police stations and go for schools is because police officers tend to carry guns, or have guns in armouries, and be trained in their use. Schools don't have that, so they're easy targets.

(Making a poor joke about Stalinist Russia) Whoever thought a Soviet would be anti-gun-control .

[Gun Manufacturers]

Silenced, automatic and semi-automatic weapons should be illegal. They serve no purpose but to kill people.

Rifles, most handguns, shotguns ect. should be legal as they have legitimate hunting and self defense purposes(but handguns ,and other weapons for self defense, should be phased out and replaced with non-lethal or less lethal alternatives)

edit:

Concealed handguns should be banned or severely restricted, and extensive safety instruction/testing should be required for gun ownership, along with safeguards against the mentally ill accessing guns.

Suppressed weapons are useful at the range to help protect a person's hearing, and to reduce the sound pollution a range creates. Semi-auto weapons are useful for hunting and target shooting (both legal, legitimate uses), and civilian legal full auto/select fire weapons aren't used in crimes, only at the range or for collecting.

[Gun Manufacturers]

TOTAL ban on guns. Get rid of every single gun, so outlaws won't be able to get them either, and death sentence for having a gun. that will set people straight.

How? Seriously. There is no way to get all the guns out of private hands. Or simply making them. (The MAC-10 machine pistol is constructed out of stamped metal plates. The only machined section is the bolt, and you can turn that out on a lathe.)

Don't forget Phillip Luty wrote a book on how to build an open bolt sub-machine gun, and I don't think a single thing in/on his weapon was machined.

[Gun Manufacturers]

still banning guns means less guns, less guns means less death, less death means more good.

How about, instead of banning an inanimate object, we just ban crime. Oh wait, crime is already illegal.

[Ramenasia]

The right to bear arms, for all people, is almost absolute.

For all people? No, for all Americans.

[Greed and Death]

The right to bear arms, for all people, is almost absolute.

For all people? No, for all Americans.

It is an international human right. American military should be deployed to ensure this right is protected.

[Ramenasia]

It is an international human right. American military should be deployed to ensure this right is protected.

It is? Explain to me then why the UK has restricted access to firearms to such an extreme degree and yet no one seems to be complaining that their rights are being violated?

Edit: I skimmed over the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and couldn't find the bit about guns being a basic right so could you please point that out to me? Thanks.

[Greed and Death]

It is an international human right. American military should be deployed to ensure this right is protected.

It is? Explain to me then why the UK has restricted access to firearms to such an extreme degree and yet no one seems to be complaining that their rights are being violated?

Edit: I skimmed over the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and couldn't find the bit about guns being a basic right so could you please point that out to me? Thanks.

The British are obviosuly so oppressed as to be afraid to express dissent so they need american military might to liberate the hell out of them.
I did not say it was in the UDHR. I said it is a univeral human right.

[Ramenasia]

The British are obviosuly so oppressed as to be afraid to express dissent so they need american military might to liberate the hell out of them.
I did not say it was in the UDHR. I said it is a univeral human right.

It's a universal right in your opinion. I don't see how limiting guns is oppressive. You can still own guns in the UK, but no ammunition bigger than .22. People can still protect themselves.

[Greed and Death]

The British are obviosuly so oppressed as to be afraid to express dissent so they need american military might to liberate the hell out of them.
I did not say it was in the UDHR. I said it is a univeral human right.

It's a universal right in your opinion. I don't see how limiting guns is oppressive.

Note you mean my well armed and menacing opinion.

Sadly your inabilty to see why limited firarms is oppressive means we must reeducate you, in a speical camp. We shall call these camps concetration Happy camps.

[Ramenasia]

Note you mean my well armed and menacing opinion.

Sadly your inabilty to see why limited firarms is oppressive means we must reeducate you, in a speical camp. We shall call these camps concetration Happy camps.

Menacing? The only the only thing menacing about you is your inability to spell.

Ha, and you almost had me thinking that you were serious about guns being a universal right. By your tone, I see that everything you said was meant to be taken as a joke, and not a serious expression of your opinion. Good, because guns are horrible things that should be banned completely. All citizens must submit to a police search and hand over all firearms. Those who do not comply will be arrested. Those in possession with illegal firearms will be executed.

[Alyakia]

the positive statement that you mentioned is an opinion...

No, it wasn't.

It was a statement of "fact", and you were wrong.

1) May as well just copy paste the entire thing. :v

"During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9."

2) When schools are open and all the students are moving, you can move with ease. Any locked rooms are empty of students. Even when this police station was open, I could not go anywhere without knowing the codes.

1) So exactly what I said. Thank you.

2) Most PDs I've been to use manual locks with keys, not electronic ones, and the reason people don't attack police stations and go for schools is because police officers tend to carry guns, or have guns in armouries, and be trained in their use. Schools don't have that, so they're easy targets.

1) Pretty much.

2) I think I've already been over why your police are bad. The reason people don't attack police stations is becuase there's hardly anyone there, they're hard to get through due to locks and even if you did get in you'd have no idea where you were. Schools get attacked because there are thousands of people there, are easy to move around, have an emotional signifigance to the attacker and are a familiar enviroment where your spree won't end in you getting lost.

If the police officers here don't carry guns, why aren't their stations getting spree attacked endlessly? Not literally every station has an armed response team either?

[Alyakia]

The British are obviosuly so oppressed as to be afraid to express dissent so they need american military might to liberate the hell out of them.
I did not say it was in the UDHR. I said it is a univeral human right.

It's a universal right in your opinion. I don't see how limiting guns is oppressive. You can still own guns in the UK, but no ammunition bigger than .22. People can still protect themselves.

The government has literally said that self-defence is not a good enough reason to own a weapon.

[Senestrum]

It's a universal right in your opinion. I don't see how limiting guns is oppressive. You can still own guns in the UK, but no ammunition bigger than .22. People can still protect themselves.

The government has literally said that self-defence is not a good enough reason to own a weapon.

Clearly, the government is always right.

[Der Teutoniker]

It's a universal right in your opinion. I don't see how limiting guns is oppressive. You can still own guns in the UK, but no ammunition bigger than .22. People can still protect themselves.

Everyone has different opinions on what constitutes natural rights - if any. Limiting guns to the extent that UK has, is immoral. They have full-auto military grade machine guns, and body armor that will stop .22 bullets. What happens when you need to rise up against your tyrannical government (it well could happen) and the 20 people that have .22 calibre guns get annihilated right away, and no one else has the means to affect a forceful change in government? Oh well, people don't need freedom, it's better to live as a sheep anyway.

People can not protect themselves from the government with .22 calibre bullets.

Even America has gone much too far in limiting access to weaponry.

[Alyakia]

The government has literally said that self-defence is not a good enough reason to own a weapon.

Clearly, the government is always right.

Oh great, you again.

No one said the government was always right. I was just responding to the guy that said people can still
defend themselves, by pointing out the government has outright said they can't.

[The Parkus Empire]

Note you mean my well armed and menacing opinion.

Sadly your inabilty to see why limited firarms is oppressive means we must reeducate you, in a speical camp. We shall call these camps concetration Happy camps.

Menacing? The only the only thing menacing about you is your inability to spell.

Ha, and you almost had me thinking that you were serious about guns being a universal right. By your tone, I see that everything you said was meant to be taken as a joke, and not a serious expression of your opinion. Good, because guns are horrible things that should be banned completely. All citizens must submit to a police search and hand over all firearms. Those who do not comply will be arrested. Those in possession with illegal firearms will be executed.

Right, we're supposed to let a demographic that suffers from 2 to 4 times the rate of domestic violence that the average family does, have all the guns because the average family can't be trusted?