Ultimate Football (Soccer) Thread (2011-2012)

[SD_Film Artists]

As for Roony- are skill and manners mutually exclusive?

[Serrland]

Klinse apparently isn't one to back down from a challenge. Yanks to play France in Paris on Nov. 11, with rumors of Scotland in Glasgow on the 15th.

Good stuff. France will probably sweep the floor with us, but that's alright. No harm in playing in friendlies that are actually high profile for once.

Shame we don't swing by Swizerland and back to Belgium on the little tour.

[Nazis in Space]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

2 : 2 against Leverkusen.

Going by chances, should've been a 6:2 -_-

Fun Fact: The last time Borussia won a home game against Leverkusen, the Berlin wall was still standing.

[Mytannion]

Blackpool got thrashed, which is a bit poop.

However, City are top of the league!

Never felt more like singing the blues.

[Hossaim]

rooney-dosen't score or assist
nani- dosen't score or assist
aguero- dosne't play
k.jones- dosen't score or assist
cahill- dosen't score or assist
dempsey- dosen't score or assist
larsson- plays tomorrow
defnece- dosen't play
de gea- did alright with 3 points
=
MY FANTASEY TEAM IS PIECE OF TRASH!

Also, ill take an away draw the liverpool, considering how lucky we were to get it.

[Osarius]

He is, probably, our best player, and Capello seems to have tried to set up the team to get the most out of him. The rest of the players have just about got used to that system, and haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of adapting to a new one between now and the Euros, especially as I think Capello will take a few matches to decide which players now make up his first XI.

Ehh... I'd say not really. There are other players who can take up a similar role to the one Rooney has played in recent matches. Ashley Young, for example, was effectively playing that role at Villa before Man Utd signed him. I see your point though.
But then if that's the case, couldn't we just say England stand pretty much no chance of getting past the group stage regardless, because either the key player in their system is absent, or because they are not going to be familiar with a "new" system..? Maybe I'm just a bit more optimistic on this point than you are? I dunno.

If Rooney's included in the squad for the Euros, that implies he'll play once his ban expires, so, again probably, that assumes England will go back to the current system for the QFs. So how committed are the players going to be to the system used in the group stage?

Interesting point. I personally wouldn't take him, but that's me. Capello might not wanna make that call, because you know that will be used against him when England seemingly inevitably fail. Then again, taking him might not be a big deal if my speculation on potential adaptation of the current system for a player in a similar role -- such as Young. Or even Gerrard maybe, he's done it for Liverpool with Torres -- is correct. Again though, point taken.

If we get a bad draw for the group (it's unlikely but not beyond possibility we'll be in pot 3 - so maybe Spain, Italy, England, Bosnia-Herzegovina?) we're going to be screwed without a system that works and that the players actually want to work, regardless whether they work harder because Rooney's not there (which I'm not convinced will happen).

No arguments here. You're right. I merely wanted to point out that missing your best player isn't always a bad thing, to be honest.

Finally, some of the "less experienced players" are, actually, crap (relatively speaking). Players like Henderson/Agbonlahor/Huddlestone/Warnock on the fringes of the squad just aren't good enough to get us to the semis or the final of a European championship.

You could say that about some of the first eleven. But then again, how many members of the Greece squad in 04 would have got into say, the Italy or France or Portugal squads at the time (the best teams in Europe that year iirc) ..? I'm gonna guess the same number of current England players who'd get into the Spain squad now. While I agree there is a quality issue, I think its also a mentality thing and a tactical thing.

Really I'm just saying maybe (big maybe, obviously) the absence of Rooney will be the kick in the ass that England need to push on a level (long shot, but hey...) like how the controversy surrounding Italy in 06 probably contributed heavily to their World Cup triumph. I think there were a few better teams in that tournament, but Italy had the mentality necessary to prevail. Those "less experienced players" in the England setup might hungrier and more driven than the so-called "golden generation", and that might be the difference between bombing out in the group stage, and a plucky semi-final run. Who knows, eh?

All in all, I largely actually agree with your points. I don't believe England have the required quality to succeed either. But I said that about Greece, too. So perhaps, instead of asking why do England "underachieve" so much, I wonder why they never seem to "overachieve". Thats the basis of my "well maybe", I guess.

[HC Eredivisie]

You could say that about some of the first eleven. But then again, how many members of the Greece squad in 04 would have got into say, the Italy or France or Portugal squads at the time (the best teams in Europe that year iirc) ..?

From memory those teams were Portugal, the Netherlands, Greece and the Czechs.

*checks on wiki* Yes, those were the teams.

[Mytannion]

rooney-dosen't score or assist
nani- dosen't score or assist
aguero- dosne't play
k.jones- dosen't score or assist
cahill- dosen't score or assist
dempsey- dosen't score or assist
larsson- plays tomorrow
defnece- dosen't play
de gea- did alright with 3 points
=
MY FANTASEY TEAM IS PIECE OF TRASH!

Also, ill take an away draw the liverpool, considering how lucky we were to get it.

Larsson has just put in a shift and a half for Sunderland. Should bag you a few points.

[I V Stalin]

Ehh... I'd say not really. There are other players who can take up a similar role to the one Rooney has played in recent matches. Ashley Young, for example, was effectively playing that role at Villa before Man Utd signed him. I see your point though.
But then if that's the case, couldn't we just say England stand pretty much no chance of getting past the group stage regardless, because either the key player in their system is absent, or because they are not going to be familiar with a "new" system..? Maybe I'm just a bit more optimistic on this point than you are? I dunno.

But Young at his best (so far) is not as good as Rooney at his best. It would surely make more sense to change the system to suit the players you've got - we have a couple of quick wide players, some half-decent strikers and some good midfielders (Parker, Wilshere). Surely a 4-4-2 with a midfield of Walcott, Parker, Wilshere, Young is worth a try?


I don't think Capello really cares. He's leaving after Euro 2012 and is now missing his best chance of winning that competition for at least half of it (or more, in England's case).


Greece was different - every single player played to the system Rehhagel put in place. No way that would happen with England. Too many egos.

To an extent the quality is there, but I genuinely think most of the players (e.g. the ones who play for CL-qualified clubs) consider international football as less important than the CL.

Sorry, short post this one. My girlfriend is sighing behind me as we're meant to be going out.

[-St George]

To an extent the quality is there, but I genuinely think most of the players (e.g. the ones who play for CL-qualified clubs) consider international football as less important than the CL.

This is very much the problem, imho.

[Serrland]

To an extent the quality is there, but I genuinely think most of the players (e.g. the ones who play for CL-qualified clubs) consider international football as less important than the CL.

This is very much the problem, imho.

Yeah. I would have no problem with a manager dropping players from the national team if he felt their heart wasn't 100% behind it. I don't care if that means the best players don't get called up - it honestly seems that the "we play for X nation first" mindset has slipped away and must be rebuilt in so many places.

Granted, it gets more complicated with the ballooning value of contracts - nations don't pay, clubs pay (way too much).

[Nazis in Space]

On an unrelated note, after matchday seven, the only thing that keeps Inter Mailand from a relegation spot is goal difference.

El Oh El.

[Miasto Lodz]

An interesting video portraying the process of lifting the roof construction of the Grande Stade Lille Metropole. 7.400 tons lifted 23m up in less than 8 hours . The stadium itself is, imho, the most interesting venue being built right now in Europe. Well, maybe except VTB Arena in Moscow.

[Serrland]

On an unrelated note, after matchday seven, the only thing that keeps Inter Mailand from a relegation spot is goal difference.

El Oh El.

I keep telling myself that they'll be fine, they'll finish at the upper end of the middle of the table, that they're Inter, etc, etc. But you know, it's the middle of October already...

[Osarius]

You could say that about some of the first eleven. But then again, how many members of the Greece squad in 04 would have got into say, the Italy or France or Portugal squads at the time (the best teams in Europe that year iirc) ..?

From memory those teams were Portugal, the Netherlands, Greece and the Czechs.

*checks on wiki* Yes, those were the teams.

Ah, nvm. My memory is fuzzy, I was a first year uni student that year

Greece was different - every single player played to the system Rehhagel put in place. No way that would happen with England. Too many egos.

To an extent the quality is there, but I genuinely think most of the players (e.g. the ones who play for CL-qualified clubs) consider international football as less important than the CL.

Again, this is pretty much what I'm getting at. Rooney's absence might not be that big a deal because I really think it's not necessarily a quality issue, but a mental one and/or a tactical one.

Interesting point on using the 4-4-2, but I believe that system is pretty much dead at the top level now. Because most stronger teams seem to play with five midfielders (three in the middle), a 4-4-2 would likely leave a team short-handed at one end of the pitch unless one of the forwards is constantly dropping back (effectively doing the job of the middle man in the 3 or the 4-2-3-1 anyway) or (at least one of) the two centre mids are particularly ...dynamic, shall we say? Now, I don't think England have the players to work that system. Not against the likes of Spain, Holland etc. anyway... Against smaller nations, sure, it can probably work though. Less danger of being overrun in midfield, I suppose. But I think that continental 4-2-3-1 system is probably the way forward for England. Learn to control possession and make better use of the ability in the team. Its not like England don't have the personnel for it.

Again, this might just be a difference of perspective, though. But that's half of football really, isnt it?

[Hossaim]

This euro needs to be the first step for us in bringing up all our young players. Players like:
Cleverly
Jones
Smalling
Welback
Sturridge
Kelly

should all feature. in a 4-4-2:

Hart
Kelly Jones Smalling Cole
Henderson Cleverly Gerrard Young
Welback Sturridge

our goal should be to develope the young players, not win, as were not going to win with the older "stars" who are shit (im looking at your barry, milner, and lampard)

[I V Stalin]

From memory those teams were Portugal, the Netherlands, Greece and the Czechs.

*checks on wiki* Yes, those were the teams.

Ah, nvm. My memory is fuzzy, I was a first year uni student that year

Greece was different - every single player played to the system Rehhagel put in place. No way that would happen with England. Too many egos.

To an extent the quality is there, but I genuinely think most of the players (e.g. the ones who play for CL-qualified clubs) consider international football as less important than the CL.

Again, this is pretty much what I'm getting at. Rooney's absence might not be that big a deal because I really think it's not necessarily a quality issue, but a mental one and/or a tactical one.

Interesting point on using the 4-4-2, but I believe that system is pretty much dead at the top level now. Because most stronger teams seem to play with five midfielders (three in the middle), a 4-4-2 would likely leave a team short-handed at one end of the pitch unless one of the forwards is constantly dropping back (effectively doing the job of the middle man in the 3 or the 4-2-3-1 anyway) or (at least one of) the two centre mids are particularly ...dynamic, shall we say? Now, I don't think England have the players to work that system. Not against the likes of Spain, Holland etc. anyway... Against smaller nations, sure, it can probably work though. Less danger of being overrun in midfield, I suppose. But I think that continental 4-2-3-1 system is probably the way forward for England. Learn to control possession and make better use of the ability in the team. Its not like England don't have the personnel for it.

Again, this might just be a difference of perspective, though. But that's half of football really, isnt it?

What I don't get is why, when most English players at the top level are mostly playing in some variation of 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, why it's so fucking hard for them to cope with this at international level. Every single time we play a top team (your Germanys, Italys, Spains, etc) we get totally overrun and end up with something like a 40% possession stat. Yet most of the opposing team either plays in the PL, or come up against PL teams in the CL.

@Hossaim: you've got a point, but I think you're overdoing it. Also, Wilshere is a better player than Cleverley for now at least, and Henderson shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the England team when we've got players like Walcott and Johnson.

[Osarius]

What I don't get is why, when most English players at the top level are mostly playing in some variation of 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, why it's so fucking hard for them to cope with this at international level. Every single time we play a top team (your Germanys, Italys, Spains, etc) we get totally overrun and end up with something like a 40% possession stat. Yet most of the opposing team either plays in the PL, or come up against PL teams in the CL.

The choir, my friend. You are preaching to it, haha.

[Keron]

Ah, nvm. My memory is fuzzy, I was a first year uni student that year

Again, this is pretty much what I'm getting at. Rooney's absence might not be that big a deal because I really think it's not necessarily a quality issue, but a mental one and/or a tactical one.

Interesting point on using the 4-4-2, but I believe that system is pretty much dead at the top level now. Because most stronger teams seem to play with five midfielders (three in the middle), a 4-4-2 would likely leave a team short-handed at one end of the pitch unless one of the forwards is constantly dropping back (effectively doing the job of the middle man in the 3 or the 4-2-3-1 anyway) or (at least one of) the two centre mids are particularly ...dynamic, shall we say? Now, I don't think England have the players to work that system. Not against the likes of Spain, Holland etc. anyway... Against smaller nations, sure, it can probably work though. Less danger of being overrun in midfield, I suppose. But I think that continental 4-2-3-1 system is probably the way forward for England. Learn to control possession and make better use of the ability in the team. Its not like England don't have the personnel for it.

Again, this might just be a difference of perspective, though. But that's half of football really, isnt it?

What I don't get is why, when most English players at the top level are mostly playing in some variation of 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, why it's so fucking hard for them to cope with this at international level. Every single time we play a top team (your Germanys, Italys, Spains, etc) we get totally overrun and end up with something like a 40% possession stat. Yet most of the opposing team either plays in the PL, or come up against PL teams in the CL.

@Hossaim: you've got a point, but I think you're overdoing it. Also, Wilshere is a better player than Cleverley for now at least, and Henderson shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the England team when we've got players like Walcott and Johnson.

Italys?

[-St George]

This euro needs to be the first step for us in bringing up all our young players. Players like:
Cleverly
Jones
Smalling
Welback
Sturridge
Kelly

should all feature. in a 4-4-2:

Hart
Kelly Jones Smalling Cole
Henderson Cleverly Gerrard Young
Welback Sturridge

our goal should be to develope the young players, not win, as were not going to win with the older "stars" who are shit (im looking at your barry, milner, and lampard)

4-4-2 doesn't work at international level.

It barely works at club level.

[Keron]

This euro needs to be the first step for us in bringing up all our young players. Players like:
Cleverly
Jones
Smalling
Welback
Sturridge
Kelly

should all feature. in a 4-4-2:

Hart
Kelly Jones Smalling Cole
Henderson Cleverly Gerrard Young
Welback Sturridge

our goal should be to develope the young players, not win, as were not going to win with the older "stars" who are shit (im looking at your barry, milner, and lampard)

4-4-2 doesn't work at international level.

It barely works at club level.

Yeah, I'm not much of a fan of the double pivot either. Too... defensive.

I personally like 4-2-2-2's a lot, though.

[Nazis in Space]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

2 : 2 against Leverkusen.

Going by chances, should've been a 6:2 -_-

Fun Fact: The last time Borussia won a home game against Leverkusen, the Berlin wall was still standing.

l'il update 'cause I know that you're all just dying to know more about my internationally staggeringly irrelevant team.

One up to second rank despite the tie on Saturday - our competition's worse than we are ^^

[-St George]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

2 : 2 against Leverkusen.

Going by chances, should've been a 6:2 -_-

Fun Fact: The last time Borussia won a home game against Leverkusen, the Berlin wall was still standing.

l'il update 'cause I know that you're all just dying to know more about my internationally staggeringly irrelevant team.

One up to second rank despite the tie on Saturday - our competition's worse than we are ^^

I thought Borussia were a terrible team that always came one up from the relegation zone?

[Nazis in Space]

l'il update 'cause I know that you're all just dying to know more about my internationally staggeringly irrelevant team.

One up to second rank despite the tie on Saturday - our competition's worse than we are ^^

I thought Borussia were a terrible team that always came one up from the relegation zone?

From 96/97 to 10/11 it was.

Within the fanbase, there's widespread suspicion that the present results are a glitch in the matrix, tbh.

[Phoenigetuzstha]

I thought Borussia were a terrible team that always came one up from the relegation zone?

Isn't that Borussia Monchengladbach. Borussia Dortmund are in the Champions League.

Ona nother note, I want Estonia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro & Turkey to get to the EURO's.