Ultimate Football (Soccer) Thread (2011-2012)

[Fartsniffage]

http://tvnz.co.nz/football-news/barca-run-into-dead-end-ac-milan-4805878

The end is nigh. Barcelona's phenomenol run is over.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's nice to see them trip up.

Perhaps literally...

[Fartsniffage]

I was hoping to see them go with about twelve games or so.

Using gay slurs is bad enough, but the kicker for me is that he directed it AGAINST A 13 YEAR OLD. Come on MLS, this punishment is a joke. I know you don't want to bee seen as too intrusive in a league that's only a bit over a decade old, but come on now, when it becomes clear that Houston wasn't going to punish him in-house it's really appropriate for the league to come down on him.

Oh well, good to know I can berate a 13 year old ball boy and only get a nice 3 game break. Good chance to rest the legs, innit?

Your ball boys should get their own back.

[Miasto Lodz]

My fav Bundesliga team vs my fav La Liga team: 2:4. This brought some really good memories back.

[Nazis in Space]

Hannover impresses, despite the late concession, and well... A hilariously defensive game.

Still have a decent chance to get through.

>Schalke...

lol

Only ones to actually beat the Spaniards are the... Dutch.

Huh.

[The Blaatschapen]

Hannover impresses, despite the late concession, and well... A hilariously defensive game.

Still have a decent chance to get through.

>Schalke...

lol

Only ones to actually beat the Spaniards are the... Dutch.

Huh.

It happens.

[Nazis in Space]

It happens.

This isn't the mid nineties anymore. Stop pretending you still matter in football :v

[The Blaatschapen]

It happens.

This isn't the mid nineties anymore. Stop pretending you still matter in football :v

When it comes to clubs we definitely took a big hit since the '90s. But this is a strange season. When a Swiss team can beat an English team, it is not so strange to have a Dutch team beating a Spanish team.

[Forsher]

http://tvnz.co.nz/football-news/barca-run-into-dead-end-ac-milan-4805878

The end is nigh. Barcelona's phenomenol run is over.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's nice to see them trip up.

If you ask me part of Barcelona's success has been their success, if you know what I mean. Once that aura is gone they just become a very good side.

[Forsher]

This isn't the mid nineties anymore. Stop pretending you still matter in football :v

When it comes to clubs we definitely took a big hit since the '90s. But this is a strange season. When a Swiss team can beat an English team, it is not so strange to have a Dutch team beating a Spanish team.

Don't know about clubs, but bringing martial arts to soccer was a definite success.

[Cromarty]

When it comes to clubs we definitely took a big hit since the '90s. But this is a strange season. When a Swiss team can beat an English team, it is not so strange to have a Dutch team beating a Spanish team.

Don't know about clubs, but bringing martial arts to soccer was a definite success.

Pfft, Cantona was doing it before it was cool.

[Osarius]

Don't know about clubs, but bringing martial arts to soccer was a definite success.

Pfft, Cantona was doing it before it was cool.

Cantona is also the reason I started reading philosophy. In French. True story.

But on the topic of Dutch clubs, etc... While they might not be making waves... there is a lot about Dutch football in general that is still highly influential/important in the world of football. The premier youth coaching method in the world today is the Coerver method (named for Wiel Coerver, a Dutchman), and one of the most highly rated coaching manuals is the Dutch FA's Official Coaching Manual from 1998. Barcelona's style of play is rooted in foundations of totaalvoetbal, given to them by the Dutch. The Netherlands were the number one team in the world less than a year ago, according to FIFA.

The reason Dutch clubs don't own on an international stage, from my understanding, is twofold. Firstly, the clubs are pretty poor and the KNVB shafts them (it actually costs clubs money to win the cup, apparently, because the prize money is so shit, and most players have win bonuses because the clubs are largely poor, so that kinda helps keep wage bills down) ... and secondly, due to the relative lack of finance, their best players get poached by richer clubs. This is then cyclical, because without their best players, the clubs struggle to make a big impact internationally, thus meaning they don't bring in significantly greater revenue, so they stay poor... etc etc. Basically, while the other major european leagues were getting greater revenue from broadcast deals, the Eredivisie didn't. That's where the gap came from. At least this is my understanding of things.

In other nations (Spain, England, Italy...) having your best players poached by the richer clubs means half the time those players stay in the same league, so the league generally doesn't suffer a loss of quality overall. In Holland, those players are being poached from the likes of Ajax and PSV. It would be like if Italian clubs basically cherry picked the best talents from Man Utd and Liverpool in the mid 90s.

That said... It might also be worth pointing out that Ajax reached the final of the NextGen Series -- sort of a U19s Champions League -- losing on penalties to Inter. They absolutely destroyed Liverpool in the process, btw, and outclassed Barcelona. Just sayin'

[Nazis in Space]

Fundamentally, the Netherlands are a small country - as a consequence, they have a rather limited spectator count (Under 20 k; Only Ajax & Feyenoord even break 40 k - and that's well below the European top clubs). Being a small country likewise means a limited TV audience - so once again, not much money to get. While some games are broadcasted internationally... They're not exactly the most popular ones on the market.

The more important TV money (Debts to a comparatively smaller extend - dutch communes are usually pretty quick to support their clubs if they run into liquidity issues, or so I hear) became, the more the Eredivise got shafted. Of course, the dutch were never really financially competitive with the big guys - but the gap was small enough that their grassroots football could always supply them with sufficient quantities of new material, and some key players could be held for sufficient amounts of time, too. For that matter, the Netherlands were also a continually decent address for South American talent.

These days, not so much.

[Forsher]

Fundamentally, the Netherlands are a small country - as a consequence, they have a rather limited spectator count (Under 20 k; Only Ajax & Feyenoord even break 40 k - and that's well below the European top clubs). Being a small country likewise means a limited TV audience - so once again, not much money to get. While some games are broadcasted internationally... They're not exactly the most popular ones on the market.

The more important TV money (Debts to a comparatively smaller extend - dutch communes are usually pretty quick to support their clubs if they run into liquidity issues, or so I hear) became, the more the Eredivise got shafted. Of course, the dutch were never really financially competitive with the big guys - but the gap was small enough that their grassroots football could always supply them with sufficient quantities of new material, and some key players could be held for sufficient amounts of time, too. For that matter, the Netherlands were also a continually decent address for South American talent.

These days, not so much.

It's better than over here. Even if the powers that be now want us to say football.

Confess. How may of you knew about thismatch?

[Osarius]

Confess. How may of you knew about thismatch?

I saw another similar turnaround in the A-League not too long ago. I think it was A-League anyway. A friend posted a link to the highlights on my facebook wall... I'll have to see if I can find it.

I've had a passing interest in the A-League since Dwight Yorke played there. You know... since he was one of my favourite players as a kid. Until he betrayed us. "If I'd had a gun..." indeed, John Gregory.

[Cromarty]

Confess. How may of you knew about thismatch?

Pfft, there's only one real team in Wellington

[Forsher]

Confess. How may of you knew about thismatch?

Pfft, there's only one real team in Wellington

Stuff Wellington. Try Auckland City, not to be confused with Waitakere United.

[Cromarty]

Pfft, there's only one real team in Wellington

Stuff Wellington. Try Auckland City, not to be confused with Waitakere United.

I prefer Canterbury United Dragons

[Miasto Lodz]

The virus of busquetsosis is spreading to South America.

[HC Eredivisie]

It happens.

This isn't the mid nineties anymore. Stop pretending you still matter in football :v

Dutch team wins, German teams loses, nananana

Firstly, the clubs are pretty poor and the KNVB shafts them (it actually costs clubs money to win the cup, apparently, because the prize money is so shit, and most players have win bonuses because the clubs are largely poor, so that kinda helps keep wage bills down) ...

Though the clubs are not really poor, at least they don't have multi million euro debts like some other clubs in other countries. I don't know about the prize money, though. And what NiS said.

[Serrland]

This isn't the mid nineties anymore. Stop pretending you still matter in football :v

When it comes to clubs we definitely took a big hit since the '90s. But this is a strange season. When a Swiss team can beat an English team, it is not so strange to have a Dutch team beating a Spanish team.

Not only that, but a Dutch team with an American as their leading scorer!

[Osarius]

Though the clubs are not really poor, at least they don't have multi million euro debts like some other clubs in other countries. I don't know about the prize money, though. And what NiS said.

Of course. I was speaking in relative terms. Villa aren't really a "rich" club -- especially not when compared to Champions League clubs -- yet as far as I know, they have revenue and asset value comparable to Ajax, for example.

[Serrland]

Aston Villa captain Stiliyan Petrov has acute leukaemia

Tough news... hate to see this happen to anyone. I lost a close friend to leukaemia just a few weeks ago, and can't begin to imagine what he and those close to him have got to be feeling. Thoughts and prayers are with him, his family, his friends, and his teammates as he faces the battle ahead.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Aston Villa captain Stiliyan Petrov has acute leukaemia

Tough news... hate to see this happen to anyone. I lost a close friend to leukaemia just a few weeks ago, and can't begin to imagine what he and those close to him have got to be feeling. Thoughts and prayers are with him, his family, his friends, and his teammates as he faces the battle ahead.

Shocking. As shocking as Fabrice Muamba in many ways. I hope it is treatable in the Villa Captain's case. My god. Just think. You have a fever and then pow...acute leukaemia. Poor bastard

on edit - also sorry to hear about your mate Serrland...its tough.

[Miasto Lodz]

/me is still impressed by yesterday's thriller at Westfalenstadion.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

LOL can you say bias? (sorry but that did strike me as funny)

I've just had four root canals about 2 hours ago so am eager to take a shit load of painkillers which will leave me a drooling wreck but I wanted to post a reply or at least a quick one...

If you are saying that Carrick is as great a player as Roy Keane was then yes I would question your sanity. Or Scholes.

If you are saying that Carrick is a good solid and dependable player with little imagination but very much boosted by the management of SAF...getting the best out a top player.

I'm not saying that Carrick is Scholes. Or Keane, Or Xavi Hernandez. Or Iniesta. He is, however, one of the best midfielders in the league, and more than good enough to be playing for any of the top clubs in Europe (Barca aside, maybe). I don't see much of a difference between Carrick and, say, Xabi Alonso, for example.

Ok cool. At least that's sorted now. You are talking about above average midfielders. I had thought you meant he was as good as perhaps Makelele.

Regarding the dig at tackling by Alonso...well. Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Giles & Bremner, Benetti were hard tacklers in the midfield and well...actually quite good players.

Could it be that perhaps the League is not as good as we'd like to think...?

I would now usually begin to rant about how soft the games become.