What are your religious beliefs?

[The Cookish States]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

Hitler abided his personal beliefs
Manson did too
Oh, and let's not forget every rapist and pedophile on the planet...

This isn't saying you all are above things, but it's possible for you to do it if YOUR moral compass says it's right.

I don't need religion to fill the "vast, empty hole" in my life that exists because of my lack of belief. I'm sorry, but what you've said is quite frankly ridiculous. There are many other things on this planet which can make people happy. And there are many things I find important. Godless heathen I may be, but neither I nor nearly every single other member of society would kill a child, or torture someone, not because of the teachings of some old book, but because of a shared set of cultural values (I'm not even going to go into the hypocrisies of, say, the Catholic Church, because that's not the point I'm making). You've surely heard of the crusades, right? Before you say that was a long time ago etc., I'm sure their beliefs were every bit as sincere as yours - the priests and bishops simply had a different interpretation of them.

I'm not trolling here - I'm just making it clear that I don't feel like some lost soul wandering about, awaiting my oblivion with despair, just because I don't follow some religious teachings. To claim this would be a misunderstanding of the relationship between religion and contemporary society.

Okay, if a religious person commits murder, i'm not saying "well that's okay". All I can say, is that the Ten commandments forbid murder outside of warfare. Someone who follows their own moral compass may consider child molestation fine, as there's always a way to justify anything you do, even using religion. The difference is that religion clearly states "No, that is wrong" which makes the excuse of "I did it for God" invalid, whereas the excuse, "I feel as though it's right" can't be argued, because to each is own (You know?).

Plus, priests, preachers, cardinals, and even the pope will have to answer for their sins, because God sees everything...except Mexico.

Also, I shouldn't have tried to imply you are "lost souls", I suppose that's inaccurate. But still, I am just barely clinging to my faith and the thought of losing it terrifies me, so I just assumed...
Sorry. But I stand by my beliefs for now.

[Moral Libertarians]

I don't need religion to fill the "vast, empty hole" in my life that exists because of my lack of belief. I'm sorry, but what you've said is quite frankly ridiculous. There are many other things on this planet which can make people happy. And there are many things I find important. Godless heathen I may be, but neither I nor nearly every single other member of society would kill a child, or torture someone, not because of the teachings of some old book, but because of a shared set of cultural values (I'm not even going to go into the hypocrisies of, say, the Catholic Church, because that's not the point I'm making). You've surely heard of the crusades, right? Before you say that was a long time ago etc., I'm sure their beliefs were every bit as sincere as yours - the priests and bishops simply had a different interpretation of them.

I'm not trolling here - I'm just making it clear that I don't feel like some lost soul wandering about, awaiting my oblivion with despair, just because I don't follow some religious teachings. To claim this would be a misunderstanding of the relationship between religion and contemporary society.

Okay, if a religious person commits murder, i'm not saying "well that's okay". All I can say, is that the Ten commandments forbid murder outside of warfare. Someone who follows their own moral compass may consider child molestation fine, as there's always a way to justify anything you do, even using religion. The difference is that religion clearly states "No, that is wrong" which makes the excuse of "I did it for God" invalid, whereas the excuse, "I feel as though it's right" can't be argued, because to each is own (You know?).

Plus, priests, preachers, cardinals, and even the pope will have to answer for their sins, because God sees everything...except Mexico.

Also, I shouldn't have tried to imply you are "lost souls", I suppose that's inaccurate. But still, I am just barely clinging to my faith and the thought of losing it terrifies me, so I just assumed...
Sorry. But I stand by my beliefs for now.

I see. Well, let me just say, I have no personal problem with faith - if people want to hold religious beliefs, then I view that as perfectly acceptable. It's your freedom to do so, and i have no right to deprive you of that against your will. However, I absolutely detest organised religion, both for the strife and division it has been responsible for over the millennia and the way in which some - not all - modern organisations attempt to push their beliefs onto those who disagree, whether by aggressive advertising and propaganda or attempts to influence government policy.

I'm sorry for your own dilemma; know that I have no desire to intentionally cause you trouble. I was just making my own position clear.

[Bottle]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

I'm very sorry to hear that you have nobody in your life, that you have nothing of meaning, that you have no hope, no dreams, no values, nothing that gives you pleasure, and no empathy for your fellow humans. I can understand why you resort to religion, since you must be pretty desperate. It sounds like you are lacking everything that makes life worth living, and everything that makes a human being human, so I totally get why you'd be casting around for some outside source to help you.

I strongly suggest you seek professional help. I'm not being sarcastic. It is not normal for a person to feel as empty, worthless, and devoid of compassion as you seem to feel. I don't say that to hurt you, but rather to assure you that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE THAT WAY. It's like how it's not normal for a person's leg to be in excruciating pain all the time. If you are experiencing that kind of suffering, it's not normal, and a doctor may be able to help you. Likewise, your crippling emotional/psychological problems may be something that you can obtain treatment for. Of course you do not have to do this, but if you want to be able to care about others and feel purpose and value in your life, that is possible.

You can have a better life, a REAL life, and you don't have to be content to merely band-aid the problem with superstition. You can really, truly have these things, now, in this world. You have worth, as a person, and you can have meaning, as a person. You don't need some deity to bestow worth upon you.

[Germanic Templars]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

I'm very sorry to hear that you have nobody in your life, that you have nothing of meaning, that you have no hope, no dreams, no values, nothing that gives you pleasure, and no empathy for your fellow humans. I can understand why you resort to religion, since you must be pretty desperate. It sounds like you are lacking everything that makes life worth living, and everything that makes a human being human, so I totally get why you'd be casting around for some outside source to help you.

I strongly suggest you seek professional help. I'm not being sarcastic. It is not normal for a person to feel as empty, worthless, and devoid of compassion as you seem to feel. I don't say that to hurt you, but rather to assure you that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE THAT WAY. It's like how it's not normal for a person's leg to be in excruciating pain all the time. If you are experiencing that kind of suffering, it's not normal, and a doctor may be able to help you. Likewise, your crippling emotional/psychological problems may be something that you can obtain treatment for. Of course you do not have to do this, but if you want to be able to care about others and feel purpose and value in your life, that is possible.

You can have a better life, a REAL life, and you don't have to be content to merely band-aid the problem with superstition. You can really, truly have these things, now, in this world. You have worth, as a person, and you can have meaning, as a person. You don't need some deity to bestow worth upon you.

why can't you respect what people believe?

[Genivaria]

I'm very sorry to hear that you have nobody in your life, that you have nothing of meaning, that you have no hope, no dreams, no values, nothing that gives you pleasure, and no empathy for your fellow humans. I can understand why you resort to religion, since you must be pretty desperate. It sounds like you are lacking everything that makes life worth living, and everything that makes a human being human, so I totally get why you'd be casting around for some outside source to help you.

I strongly suggest you seek professional help. I'm not being sarcastic. It is not normal for a person to feel as empty, worthless, and devoid of compassion as you seem to feel. I don't say that to hurt you, but rather to assure you that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE THAT WAY. It's like how it's not normal for a person's leg to be in excruciating pain all the time. If you are experiencing that kind of suffering, it's not normal, and a doctor may be able to help you. Likewise, your crippling emotional/psychological problems may be something that you can obtain treatment for. Of course you do not have to do this, but if you want to be able to care about others and feel purpose and value in your life, that is possible.

You can have a better life, a REAL life, and you don't have to be content to merely band-aid the problem with superstition. You can really, truly have these things, now, in this world. You have worth, as a person, and you can have meaning, as a person. You don't need some deity to bestow worth upon you.

2 things. why can't you respect what people believe?

Please be satire.

[Germanic Templars]

why can't you respect what people believe?

Please be satire.

look again at previous post.
though my second one was going to ask if it was flamebaiting, but it might not of.

[Bottle]

I'm very sorry to hear that you have nobody in your life, that you have nothing of meaning, that you have no hope, no dreams, no values, nothing that gives you pleasure, and no empathy for your fellow humans. I can understand why you resort to religion, since you must be pretty desperate. It sounds like you are lacking everything that makes life worth living, and everything that makes a human being human, so I totally get why you'd be casting around for some outside source to help you.

I strongly suggest you seek professional help. I'm not being sarcastic. It is not normal for a person to feel as empty, worthless, and devoid of compassion as you seem to feel. I don't say that to hurt you, but rather to assure you that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE THAT WAY. It's like how it's not normal for a person's leg to be in excruciating pain all the time. If you are experiencing that kind of suffering, it's not normal, and a doctor may be able to help you. Likewise, your crippling emotional/psychological problems may be something that you can obtain treatment for. Of course you do not have to do this, but if you want to be able to care about others and feel purpose and value in your life, that is possible.

You can have a better life, a REAL life, and you don't have to be content to merely band-aid the problem with superstition. You can really, truly have these things, now, in this world. You have worth, as a person, and you can have meaning, as a person. You don't need some deity to bestow worth upon you.

why can't you respect what people believe?

What an interesting non sequiter.

It's like asking me why I don't respect somebody's clinical depression, or somebody's leukemia, or somebody's broken leg. I don't "disrespect" that people have those states of being, I simply think they could probably lead a healthier and happier life if they sought professional help.

[Germanic Templars]

why can't you respect what people believe?

What an interesting non sequiter.

It's like asking me why I don't respect somebody's clinical depression, or somebody's leukemia, or somebody's broken leg. I don't "disrespect" that people have those states of being, I simply think they could probably lead a healthier and happier life if they sought professional help.

So you are suggesting your own opinion, which going by opinion is not always the best way, even a smart person like you should know that.

[Bottle]

What an interesting non sequiter.

It's like asking me why I don't respect somebody's clinical depression, or somebody's leukemia, or somebody's broken leg. I don't "disrespect" that people have those states of being, I simply think they could probably lead a healthier and happier life if they sought professional help.

So you are suggesting your own opinion, which going by opinion is not always the best way, even a smart person like you should know that.

I honestly have not the least idea what you're trying to say.

[All Awesome People]

I don't agree with any religion, I'm a religion of one and I'm my own pope.

[Germanic Templars]

So you are suggesting your own opinion, which going by opinion is not always the best way, even a smart person like you should know that.

I honestly have not the least idea what you're trying to say.

hold on.

[Magna Bavaria]

Nihilism.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

Hitler abided his personal beliefs
Manson did too
Oh, and let's not forget every rapist and pedophile on the planet...

This isn't saying you all are above things, but it's possible for you to do it if YOUR moral compass says it's right.

You just Godwinned the thread. Hitler was Catholic, he said it himself. So what is your point in bringing him to the discussion?

Also, the fact that something brings hope doesn't mean at all that He should exist. It does not logically follow. If it does, I take it that you still believe Santa Claus breaks into your house for a reverse-burglary mission every Christmas? Life has no purpose, so I deal with it. I don't try to delude myself with self-hypnosis that there is something waiting for me after death.

Also, morality is subjective. I'm sure that there are areas in which Catholics and Protestant do not agree on with regards to morality. More importantly, a definite moral standard oppresses those that do not agree. You have to give room for people to follow their own vision of how life is to be. Additionally, your example of a person shooting a baby sounds pretty close to God knowingly sending His son to die when he did not need to die, except that in this case, it's not just any random baby, but it's His son.

[The Cookish States]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

I'm very sorry to hear that you have nobody in your life, that you have nothing of meaning, that you have no hope, no dreams, no values, nothing that gives you pleasure, and no empathy for your fellow humans. I can understand why you resort to religion, since you must be pretty desperate. It sounds like you are lacking everything that makes life worth living, and everything that makes a human being human, so I totally get why you'd be casting around for some outside source to help you.

I strongly suggest you seek professional help. I'm not being sarcastic. It is not normal for a person to feel as empty, worthless, and devoid of compassion as you seem to feel. I don't say that to hurt you, but rather to assure you that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE THAT WAY. It's like how it's not normal for a person's leg to be in excruciating pain all the time. If you are experiencing that kind of suffering, it's not normal, and a doctor may be able to help you. Likewise, your crippling emotional/psychological problems may be something that you can obtain treatment for. Of course you do not have to do this, but if you want to be able to care about others and feel purpose and value in your life, that is possible.

You can have a better life, a REAL life, and you don't have to be content to merely band-aid the problem with superstition. You can really, truly have these things, now, in this world. You have worth, as a person, and you can have meaning, as a person. You don't need some deity to bestow worth upon you.

I find that exteremely fucking insulting. You are really saying that I need mental help because I believe in God? Please, feel free to argue your point, but don't insult me with accusations of insanity. I don't want to read another word from you.

[The Cookish States]

Meh. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Noow, cue the Atheists with their knowledge produced mostly by scientists who seem to believe that everyone should live with the same depression as them that there is no afterlife and you will be nonexistant in 100 years. That is depressing, have hope, have faith, in religion, as opposed to believeing nothing is important, there is no judgement after life, and that you have no obligation other than to yourself to abide by a moral code (Which is dumb, because your moral code can change instantly as it only applies to you and what is good for you, so in theory, a lesser person could shoot a baby to save his own life (If given that ultimatum). Religion produces a definate standard (In most cases) which means, even if there is no God, it's still ore effiecient for guiding people than "Your personal beliefs"

Hitler abided his personal beliefs
Manson did too
Oh, and let's not forget every rapist and pedophile on the planet...

This isn't saying you all are above things, but it's possible for you to do it if YOUR moral compass says it's right.

You just Godwinned the thread. Hitler was Catholic, he said it himself. So what is your point in bringing him to the discussion?

Also, the fact that something brings hope doesn't mean at all that He should exist. It does not logically follow. If it does, I take it that you still believe Santa Claus breaks into your house for a reverse-burglary mission every Christmas? Life has no purpose, so I deal with it. I don't try to delude myself with self-hypnosis that there is something waiting for me after death.

Also, morality is subjective. I'm sure that there are areas in which Catholics and Protestant do not agree on with regards to morality. More importantly, a definite moral standard oppresses those that do not agree. You have to give room for people to follow their own vision of how life is to be. Additionally, your example of a person shooting a baby sounds pretty close to God knowingly sending His son to die when he did not need to die, except that in this case, it's not just any random baby, but it's His son.

Hitler said he was Catholic, and he was no more Catholic than I am a toilet. (Though I could be mistaken with some of you figuratively pissing on my beliefs.) Regardless, Christians aren't perfect, neither are you. Being religious does not mean you are not evil, the two are not mutually exclusive. Priests that touch little boys, go to Hell for instance, and he may be a faithful as I am, but that doesn't condone his actions. I don't see why you're trying anyway...i'm just an ignorant, unintelligent, bible reading idiot that you're trying to convert just so you can say 'Look at what I did!!'
Honestly, just stop. You're not making anyones life easier or betterby making it devoid of hope of an afterlife.

[Ceannairceach]

I find that exteremely fucking insulting. You are really saying that I need mental help because I believe in God? Please, feel free to argue your point, but don't insult me with accusations of insanity. I don't want to read another word from you.

Rather, I believe, Bottle thinks you need help if you believe that you require a god to be happy and whatnot.

This said, I was insulted when you compared atheists to Hitler and Charles Manson. It appears that you really have no right to be insulted when you cast the first metaphorical stone.

[Ceannairceach]

Honestly, just stop. You're not making anyones life easier or betterby making it devoid of hope of an afterlife.

Not all atheists disagree with the possibility of an afterlife, simply a god.

[The Cookish States]

I find that exteremely fucking insulting. You are really saying that I need mental help because I believe in God? Please, feel free to argue your point, but don't insult me with accusations of insanity. I don't want to read another word from you.

Rather, I believe, Bottle thinks you need help if you believe that you require a god to be happy and whatnot.

This said, I was insulted when you compared atheists to Hitler and Charles Manson. It appears that you really have no right to be insulted when you cast the first metaphorical stone.

I never said that, we even just proved that Hitler thought he was Catholic and doing God's work (He wasn't, making it clear)
I only implied that someone COULD be driven to that if their religion or personal code told them to. The difference is that religion has a community and a written law that (most of the time) states if something is wrong or not.

[Ceannairceach]

Rather, I believe, Bottle thinks you need help if you believe that you require a god to be happy and whatnot.

This said, I was insulted when you compared atheists to Hitler and Charles Manson. It appears that you really have no right to be insulted when you cast the first metaphorical stone.

I never said that, we even just proved that Hitler thought he was Catholic and doing God's work (He wasn't, making it clear)
I only implied that someone COULD be driven to that if their religion or personal code told them to. The difference is that religion has a community and a written law that (most of the time) states if something is wrong or not.

Atheists, in quite a few places, have a written code as well, one far more enforceable than any religious code. Most tend to refer to it as "Law".

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Hinduism is 1% of the vote.

[The Cookish States]

I never said that, we even just proved that Hitler thought he was Catholic and doing God's work (He wasn't, making it clear)
I only implied that someone COULD be driven to that if their religion or personal code told them to. The difference is that religion has a community and a written law that (most of the time) states if something is wrong or not.

Atheists, in quite a few places, have a written code as well, one far more enforceable than any religious code. Most ten to refer to it as "Law".

But in the absence of that, what do you follow? Because religious people follow "Law" also, but relgion picks up as another guideline. It's complicated I guess, but I understand it.
Look, my motives are for you to just respect my beliefs Leave it alone.
This whole argument would be a win for you, and for me if you just said-

I find your fairy tale beliefs hilarious and dumb, but I'll stop ridiculing them, as I can see it's causing you endless mental torture.

Is that too much to ask? I want nothing more than to cease this argument, but my obligation to Christ requires me to attempt at defending him (Which i've done shitty work at). So, don't make me have to defend him, and you no longer will be forced to be dealing with this "religious basketcase".

[Vecherd]

Hinduism is 1% of the vote.

And?

[Ceannairceach]

snip

You are not forced to post here, in an open debate forum. You are free to leave at any time.

As to what we follow in absence of law, that is up to individual atheists. This said, what is morally right and wrong is not truly for any one person to decide.

[The Cookish States]

snip

You are not forced to post here, in an open debate forum. You are free to leave at any time.

Oooh, but you don't understand, I am forced to post in here, not by my own motives (as I don't like being badgered by you all any more than you like hearing me go on about 'my beliefs') but by an obligation to keep this an argument and not a total religion bashing thread.

[Keronians]

snip

You are not forced to post here, in an open debate forum. You are free to leave at any time.

As to what we follow in absence of law, that is up to individual atheists. This said, what is morally right and wrong is not truly for any one person to decide.

When a core belief of a person's lifestyle is challenged, ridiculed, and treated with contempt, then odds are, he will defend it, even if he doesn't want to.