The Obama administration seemingly has Alzheimer's

[The_pantless_hero]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_ ... e_overhaul

The word on the street today is that Obama is backing down from a public option in the healthcare bill in order to, get this, attempt to get a bipartisan bill passed with Republican support. Hmm, that sounds familiar.. let me think, OH YEAH! I remember now, he tried to do this back during the stimulus bill. The Republicans were ranting and raving about taxes as usual and in order to appease them and generate bipartisan support for the bill, Obama pressured the Democrats in Congress to add billions in tax cuts to the program. Then what happened? Senate Republicans voted against the bill to the member. And apparently the Obama administration has completely and totally forgotten how they got royally fucked over on the far less vehement stimulus bill and are backing off on the much promised and needed public option in order to get Republicans to support the bill. Hell, it's probable that the fucking Blue Dogs won't support the bill and it's their fault that the CBO is saying it's going to generate a deficit (fucking hypocrites). If Obama thinks caving to the Republicans is going to do anything more than empower the Republicans when they are the minority in government, then he is going to take 1 year of beating then 3 more years of kicking him while he's down after the Republicans swing Congress in their favor based on handing the President his ass followed by years of humiliation for getting walked all over by the Republicans.

Here's what needs to happen. Some one with some balls and brains needs to tell Obama that Republicans will never support the bill. Ever. Ever. This is not about the bill. It never was about the bill. If George Bush had proposed the same bill, we would have universal healthcare. This is about politics and much like capitalism, politics means generating the most benefit for the person at the top while fucking over the little people but getting their support by lying to them. Apparently Howard Dean is the only man with balls big enough to go out and say "Obama is doing it wrong" but he doesn't have the sway. Some one important needs to go out, call Obama an idiot, and call for Senate Democrats to scrap the POS compromise plan they have now and frame a new plan without the Blue Dog compromise, without the drug company Faustian Deal (it's not even a compromise), and any other detriment to the people compromises. The new plan needs to be well defined up front so they can go and sell it straight to the people word for word so the Republicans can't corrupt truths, generate lies, and spread misinformation about it for their own benefit.

[Treznor]

Truth to power. But this truth will never be reflected by the "experts" in the media who are being paid to tell our politicians what they think, so it's unlikely it will be treated seriously by the White House.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Here's what needs to happen. Some one with some balls and brains needs to tell Obama that Republicans will never support the bill. Ever. Ever. This is not about the bill. It never was about the bill. If George Bush had proposed the same bill, we would have universal healthcare. This is about politics and much like capitalism, politics means generating the most benefit for the person at the top while fucking over the little people but getting their support by lying to them. Apparently Howard Dean is the only man with balls big enough to go out and say "Obama is doing it wrong" but he doesn't have the sway. Some one important needs to go out, call Obama an idiot, and call for Senate Democrats to scrap the POS compromise plan they have now and frame a new plan without the Blue Dog compromise, without the drug company Faustian Deal (it's not even a compromise), and any other detriment to the people compromises. The new plan needs to be well defined up front so they can go and sell it straight to the people word for word so the Republicans can't corrupt truths, generate lies, and spread misinformation about it for their own benefit.

Oh, this sounds so very much like me during the first six years of the Bush (43) administration. What is it about Presidents that make them betray the people that elect them?

Still, your argument isn't based in reality. The reason that the Democratic Party has the majority that it enjoys is because of the Blue Dog Democrats. The Blue Dogs were chosen by the powers (including Rom Emanuel) in the the party, to run against conservatives in districts that might go Democrat, but were unlikely to go liberal.

Let's face it, until the electorate, on both the conservative side and liberal side, can measure a politician's character before electing them, there will be a certain amount of whoring and capitualation in the face of adversity.

[United Russian State]

America is very much in debt. At least over a trillion. You want goverment healthcare now?! Should wait for better economy.

[Port Arcana]

No kidding. Might as well just ignore the Blue Dogs and Republicans altogether and ram a healthcare bill through senate, and forget bipartisanship. If conservatives want to bitch and whine about it, too bad. Let them elect their own politicians in 2010.

[The_pantless_hero]

America is very much in debt. At least over a trillion. You want goverment healthcare now?! Should wait for better economy.

Never mind the fact that the US already spends more per capita on healthcare than every nation that actually has government healthcare.

[Treznor]

America is very much in debt. At least over a trillion. You want goverment healthcare now?! Should wait for better economy.

When we have a better economy, nobody believes there's a need for government healthcare. It's a crazy kind of cycle.

How about we take care of people now, and let that investment help the economy? Crazy thought, I know; they told FDR he was going to spend the nation into ruin as well. It turns out not so much.

[Port Arcana]

Don't they just need 50 votes to pass it? There's 58 Dems and 2 left-leaning independents, minus some conservative dems and adding some moderate Republicans... they can pass a public health option, can't they?

[United Russian State]

America is very much in debt. At least over a trillion. You want goverment healthcare now?! Should wait for better economy.

Never mind the fact that the US already spends more per capita on healthcare than every nation that actually has government healthcare.

If this is ture it should be the best in world. This must mean America goverment is miss using money. In that case if anything it would be bad for it to be put under more goverment control. If the goverment Iis doing bad now it will do worse when it becomes bigger.

[Port Arcana]

America is very much in debt. At least over a trillion. You want goverment healthcare now?! Should wait for better economy.

Never mind the fact that the US already spends more per capita on healthcare than every nation that actually has government healthcare.

If this is ture it should be the best in world. This must mean America goverment is miss using money. In that case if anything it would be bad for it to be put under more goverment control. If the goverment Iis doing bad now it will do worse when it becomes bigger.

No, this means that all the money is going into the pockets of greedy insurance companies who are denying coverage of people that are actually sick.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Don't they just need 50 votes to pass it? There's 58 Dems and 2 left-leaning independents, minus some conservative dems and adding some moderate Republicans... they can pass a public health option, can't they?

Yes, but the number is short, in terms of a fillibuster.

[The_pantless_hero]

Still, your argument isn't based in reality. The reason that the Democratic Party has the majority that it enjoys is because of the Blue Dog Democrats. The Blue Dogs were chosen by the powers (including Rom Emanuel) in the the party, to run against conservatives in districts that might go Democrat, but were unlikely to go liberal.

What the fuck does Rahm Emanuel have to do with anything? Are you pulling some partisan appeal to power crap? It was Howard Dean who came up with the 50 state strategy. It was Howard Dean who saved our asses. But since we won, we gave Tim Kaine control of the DNC and look where that is getting us. We switched from Dean to Kaine because the theory went that we didn't need a minority party ('war time' perhaps) DNC head when we had already won. Being a centrist to a fault, Obama failed to realize politics is a never-ending war between Democrats and Republicans with a handful of third party mercenaries. One can't be complacent and dump the abrasive, but very effective, guy when you "win." Because you don't win, you just have the upper hand.

[GetBert]

For fuck's sake stop starting new Obamacare threads

[The_pantless_hero]

Don't they just need 50 votes to pass it? There's 58 Dems and 2 left-leaning independents, minus some conservative dems and adding some moderate Republicans... they can pass a public health option, can't they?

Yes, but the number is short, in terms of a fillibuster.

Fuck the filibuster. Only in recent years has the threat of a filibuster been enough to derail legislation - probably because filibustering now is a joke. But Reid is a pansy anyway.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Still, your argument isn't based in reality. The reason that the Democratic Party has the majority that it enjoys is because of the Blue Dog Democrats. The Blue Dogs were chosen by the powers (including Rom Emanuel) in the the party, to run against conservatives in districts that might go Democrat, but were unlikely to go liberal.

What the fuck does Rahm Emanuel have to do with anything? Are you pulling some partisan appeal to power crap? It was Howard Dean who came up with the 50 state strategy. It was Howard Dean who saved our asses. But since we won, we gave Tim Kaine control of the DNC and look where that is getting us. We switched from Dean to Kaine because the theory went that we didn't need a minority party ('war time' perhaps) DNC head when we had already won. Being a centrist to a fault, Obama failed to realize politics is a never-ending war between Democrats and Republicans with a handful of third party mercenaries. One can't be complacent and dump the abrasive, but very effective, guy when you "win." Because you don't win, you just have the upper hand.

Thank you for the historical and spelling corrections. Much of what you say about the continual war is correct, also.

Still, the Blue Dogs are the Conservatives in the Democratic party and know their people/voters. They won't be keeping their jobs if they piss the voters off too much.

[The_pantless_hero]

For fuck's sake stop starting new Obamacare threads

Hey, better idea - no. I will not condescend to recognizing a threat named "Obamacare" as an official representation of the healthcare reform that is taking place right now. Just calling it Obamacare is a nod to the anti-reform right-wing.

[Muravyets]

Still, your argument isn't based in reality. The reason that the Democratic Party has the majority that it enjoys is because of the Blue Dog Democrats. The Blue Dogs were chosen by the powers (including Rom Emanuel) in the the party, to run against conservatives in districts that might go Democrat, but were unlikely to go liberal.

What the fuck does Rahm Emanuel have to do with anything? Are you pulling some partisan appeal to power crap? It was Howard Dean who came up with the 50 state strategy. It was Howard Dean who saved our asses. But since we won, we gave Tim Kaine control of the DNC and look where that is getting us. We switched from Dean to Kaine because the theory went that we didn't need a minority party ('war time' perhaps) DNC head when we had already won. Being a centrist to a fault, Obama failed to realize politics is a never-ending war between Democrats and Republicans with a handful of third party mercenaries. One can't be complacent and dump the abrasive, but very effective, guy when you "win." Because you don't win, you just have the upper hand.

Upper hand for the moment.

Despite several political missteps, Dean has proven his worth and even made me change my formerly negative view of him. He has shown that he has the ability to clarify a party message and get it communicated clearly to the public -- and lacking that is exactly what is allowing the rightwing to kill health care reform now. Also, Dean has state-level experience at actually implementing a working public option health care system.

The Dems seem only comfortable when they are losing, but I wish they would try to lose less of OUR stuff to keep them in their comfort zone. *is disgusted*

[You-Gi-Owe]

For fuck's sake stop starting new Obamacare threads

Look, there's just too big a variety of smaller topics under the giant umbrella. Just learn to live with it.

[The_pantless_hero]

Still, your argument isn't based in reality. The reason that the Democratic Party has the majority that it enjoys is because of the Blue Dog Democrats. The Blue Dogs were chosen by the powers (including Rom Emanuel) in the the party, to run against conservatives in districts that might go Democrat, but were unlikely to go liberal.

What the fuck does Rahm Emanuel have to do with anything? Are you pulling some partisan appeal to power crap? It was Howard Dean who came up with the 50 state strategy. It was Howard Dean who saved our asses. But since we won, we gave Tim Kaine control of the DNC and look where that is getting us. We switched from Dean to Kaine because the theory went that we didn't need a minority party ('war time' perhaps) DNC head when we had already won. Being a centrist to a fault, Obama failed to realize politics is a never-ending war between Democrats and Republicans with a handful of third party mercenaries. One can't be complacent and dump the abrasive, but very effective, guy when you "win." Because you don't win, you just have the upper hand.

Upper hand for the moment.

Despite several political missteps, Dean has proven his worth and even made me change my formerly negative view of him. He has shown that he has the ability to clarify a party message and get it communicated clearly to the public -- and lacking that is exactly what is allowing the rightwing to kill health care reform now. Also, Dean has state-level experience at actually implementing a working public option health care system.

The Dems seem only comfortable when they are losing, but I wish they would try to lose less of OUR stuff to keep them in their comfort zone. *is disgusted*

I never had a negative view of Dean and the only reason anyone would is because the Republicans ran a far too effective smear campaign based on a single, nondescript action from a single rally.

[United Russian State]

No, this means that all the money is going into the pockets of greedy insurance companies who are denying coverage of people that are actually sick.

Youre going find out goverment officals can just be as greedy.

[The_pantless_hero]

No, this means that all the money is going into the pockets of greedy insurance companies who are denying coverage of people that are actually sick.

Your going find out goverment officals can just be as greedy.

The reason the US spends more per capita than any other nation is the fee-for-care system that encourages sick care over preemptive healthcare and the uncontrolled drug and medical supplies industries.

[Muravyets]

I never had a negative view of Dean and the only reason anyone would is because the Republicans ran a far too effective smear campaign based on a single, nondescript action from a single rally.

I had a negative view of him because I lived in Vermont during the end of his tenure as governor and saw some unbelievably stupid and unconstructive shit happen. But later, I got to see how the state operated without him, and it was gradually getting even worse, so I began to realize it wasn't his fault after all. But I hadn't really formed a positive view of Dean until I saw him run the DNC.

[Ring of Isengard]

Obama you twat - don't listen to republicans. They're dumbarses.

[The_pantless_hero]

I never had a negative view of Dean and the only reason anyone would is because the Republicans ran a far too effective smear campaign based on a single, nondescript action from a single rally.

I had a negative view of him because I lived in Vermont during the end of his tenure as governor and saw some unbelievably stupid and unconstructive shit happen. But later, I got to see how the state operated without him, and it was gradually getting even worse, so I began to realize it wasn't his fault after all. But I hadn't really formed a positive view of Dean until I saw him run the DNC.

Well that's fair, but what I said is why alot of other people have a negative view of him.

[Farnhamia]

No, this means that all the money is going into the pockets of greedy insurance companies who are denying coverage of people that are actually sick.

Youre going find out goverment officals can just be as greedy.

Unlike in some not-quite Third World countries, American government officials don't take much cash while in office. They wait until they're out of office and then become lobbyists. *nod*