Damn religious people

[Heinleinites]

Uh... Canada is north of Hawaii. By the way, I completely agree with your first statement.

And "north" is generally "up" on a map. Unless you were looking at the map upside down, you wouldn't "come down" to Canada from Hawaii, you'd "go up." See?

[New Imperial Tyrannia]

Uh... Canada is north of Hawaii. By the way, I completely agree with your first statement.

And "north" is generally "up" on a map. Unless you were looking at the map upside down, you wouldn't "come down" to Canada from Hawaii, you'd "go up." See?

Sorry, I must have misread your post

Still agree with your first statement, though

[Daistallia 2104]

I'm sorry, but how is pointing out the they never say grace any more rude than asking if they shouldn's say grace (and implying that they should)?

It was the snipy manner in which it was said. The OP said they have these people as guests every year, so a request to say grace should have been expected. The polite thing would have been to say "Please go ahead."

Saying "I'm sorry but we don't do that. Please feel free." and waiting while they did would have been OK.

A guests simple request like that should have been accomodated instead of being told "Oh well we don't do that around here."

[Cabra West]

I'm sorry, but how is pointing out the they never say grace any more rude than asking if they shouldn's say grace (and implying that they should)?

It was the snipy manner in which it was said. The OP said they have these people as guests every year, so a request to say grace should have been expected. The polite thing would have been to say "Please go ahead."

Saying "I'm sorry but we don't do that. Please feel free." and waiting while they did would have been OK.

A guests simple request like that should have been accomodated instead of being told "Oh well we don't do that around here."

I see your point. But assuming that the OP has given us the word-for-word conversation, the phrasing of the question "Shouldn't we say grace" would get a similar reaction from me. Mostly because it tries to imply that we should.
Had they asked "Are we going to say grace?" or something similar, I think the reply might have been less snippy....
But that's just guessing, and guessing based on what my reaction would have been. I tend to be sensitive if people imply I should do something...

[German Nightmare]

There's also the quick mealtime prayer that you can say in one word:

BlessusohLordandthesethygiftswhichweareabouttoreceivefromthybountythroughChristOurLordAmen.

Never minded having that said or having to say it when I stayed with my host family in the States. But it's not something I grew up with, nor is it something I'd do on my own. *shrugs*

I'm religious, but I don't force my religion unto others. Likewise, I don't like it when people do so.

If they want to say grace, go ahead, be my guest, I'll be halfway through dinner by then.

[Bottle]

When I am a guest in someone's home, I abide by how they do things. If they are a religious family and they say grace, I bow my head respectfully, even if I don't share their beliefs. I expect the same sort of conduct from people who are guests in my home. I think it is rude to expect your host to say grace if that is not their practice, just as it would be rude for me to ask my host family to NOT say grace if it is their practice.

[Daistallia 2104]

When I am a guest in someone's home, I abide by how they do things. If they are a religious family and they say grace, I bow my head respectfully, even if I don't share their beliefs. I expect the same sort of conduct from people who are guests in my home. I think it is rude to expect your host to say grace if that is not their practice, just as it would be rude for me to ask my host family to NOT say grace if it is their practice.

Yes, but which is more appropriate as a host: answering a guest's minor faux pas with rudeness or accomodating their request? I was always taught that the host has a greater responsibility to be polite.

If the hostess had said "Oh, OK, please go ahead." That would have been the end of the story. By making a biggish deal of it instead of smoothing it over, she was more at fault.

Overall, it appears to me that the OP considered the guests religion inconvenient and opened them up as an appropriate target for ridicule.

[Bottle]

When I am a guest in someone's home, I abide by how they do things. If they are a religious family and they say grace, I bow my head respectfully, even if I don't share their beliefs. I expect the same sort of conduct from people who are guests in my home. I think it is rude to expect your host to say grace if that is not their practice, just as it would be rude for me to ask my host family to NOT say grace if it is their practice.

Yes, but which is more appropriate as a host: answering a guest's minor faux pas with rudeness or accomodating their request? I was always taught that the host has a greater responsibility to be polite.

I'd say it depends on the situation. I do believe in being accommodating of guests, as you say, but I also think there are limits.

If the hostess had said "Oh, OK, please go ahead." That would have been the end of the story. By making a biggish deal of it instead of smoothing it over, she was more at fault.

Again, I think it depends on the situation. I also think, in this case, people are biased a bit because of the cultural view of religion.

If I were at someone's house for dinner, and they wanted to say grace, and I spoke up and said I'd rather they not say grace, how would people feel about that? What if they politely said they would just bow their heads for a moment instead of saying a grace out loud, but I continued to protest that I didn't want ANY grace at all?

Overall, it appears to me that the OP considered the guests religion inconvenient and opened them up as an appropriate target for ridicule.

Well, to be fair, the guests' religion WAS inconvenient, and they WERE rude about it.

Not saying that I think two wrongs make a right, but I do believe that if somebody behaves rudely toward me they really don't have the right to bitch if I'm less than polite in return.

[West Failure]

Go visit them and insist on sacrificing their first born.

[Pacifisia]

Go visit them and insist on sacrificing their first born.

Seriously though, I agree with the people who've said "what's the big deal?". Even if such an awkward situation does occur, it really isn't hard to address it later, to clear the air.

[Ifreann]

So we have visiters from Hawaii that come down to Port Alberni,Canada every year for about 2 months.

In what sense of the word is Canada "down" from Hawaii?

[Bottle]

So we have visiters from Hawaii that come down to Port Alberni,Canada every year for about 2 months.

In what sense of the word is Canada "down" from Hawaii?

It is only by convention that we regard North as "up." It can be really fun to think about the fact that the opposite way is equally valid. Well, at least it's fun on an empty stomach.

/gets dizzy and falls down

[Daistallia 2104]

I'd say it depends on the situation. I do believe in being accommodating of guests, as you say, but I also think there are limits.

Indeed. But did a simple request for a grace exceed those limits? I don't think so.

Again, I think it depends on the situation. I also think, in this case, people are biased a bit because of the cultural view of religion.

Indeed it is very much so dependent on the situation. And I was thinking similar things about the non-religious bias in this case.

If I were at someone's house for dinner, and they wanted to say grace, and I spoke up and said I'd rather they not say grace, how would people feel about that? What if they politely said they would just bow their heads for a moment instead of saying a grace out loud, but I continued to protest that I didn't want ANY grace at all?

"I'm sorry, I don't wish to participate, you go ahead." is fine.

"No, I won't let you." is rude.

Well, to be fair, the guests' religion WAS inconvenient, and they WERE rude about it.

It was a very minor inconvenience, not something that I would consider worthing of cursing at.
Same goes for the rudeness. It was a minor faux pas at worse, and definately not something worthy of the OP's rudeness.

And as I've said several times, the guests request should have been expected, as this is not the first interaction. If these people were as well known to the OP's family as the OP indicated, I would expect the request to have been anticipated and dealt with appropriately.

Not saying that I think two wrongs make a right, but I do believe that if somebody behaves rudely toward me they really don't have the right to bitch if I'm less than polite in return.

And thus opens the slippery slope to an eye for an eye.

[Ifreann]

So we have visiters from Hawaii that come down to Port Alberni,Canada every year for about 2 months.

In what sense of the word is Canada "down" from Hawaii?

It is only by convention that we regard North as "up." It can be really fun to think about the fact that the opposite way is equally valid. Well, at least it's fun on an empty stomach.

/gets dizzy and falls down

So Australia might be the right way up, and we're upside down......


Wooooooah. You just blew my mind, dude.

[Bottle]

I'd say it depends on the situation. I do believe in being accommodating of guests, as you say, but I also think there are limits.

Indeed. But did a simple request for a grace exceed those limits? I don't think so.

Again, situational.

For instance, if these guests had been in the home before, and knew that the host family did not like to say grace, then absolutely it was out of line to ask them to say grace.

If I were at someone's house for dinner, and they wanted to say grace, and I spoke up and said I'd rather they not say grace, how would people feel about that? What if they politely said they would just bow their heads for a moment instead of saying a grace out loud, but I continued to protest that I didn't want ANY grace at all?

"I'm sorry, I don't wish to participate, you go ahead." is fine.

"No, I won't let you." is rude.

Is it any better this way?

"We'd like to say grace."

"We don't believe it is polite for you to sit down to a meal that we provided and cooked, and then thank God for that meal right in front of us."

"We're saying grace."

Well, to be fair, the guests' religion WAS inconvenient, and they WERE rude about it.

It was a very minor inconvenience, not something that I would consider worthing of cursing at.
Same goes for the rudeness. It was a minor faux pas at worse, and definately not something worthy of the OP's rudeness.

Meh, venting on the internet.

It'd be one thing if you blew up at somebody in person over something like this, but it's perfectly reasonable to be frustrated and vent about it after the fact. That's how most people deal with annoying social situations...at the time, you just suck it up and stay polite, and then afterward you turn to your friend and say, "Damn those people were wankers, eh?"

And as I've said several times, the guests request should have been expected, as this is not the first interaction. If these people were as well known to the OP's family as the OP indicated, I would expect the request to have been anticipated and dealt with appropriately.

True, it'd be better to simply tell these people directly that their behavior is rude and unacceptable.

Not saying that I think two wrongs make a right, but I do believe that if somebody behaves rudely toward me they really don't have the right to bitch if I'm less than polite in return.

And thus opens the slippery slope to an eye for an eye.

I call it the Golden Rule, personally.

If those guests like to treat others rudely and disrespectfully, then I take that as an indication of how they would like to be treated.

[Kkarbo]

I have to say that out of all of the terrible thing Organised Religion has caused, saying grace is not high on the list.

[Treznor]

"I applaud your devotion. However, in this house we don't like to reinforce superstition. You're welcome to say your 'grace' quietly to yourselves, and join our meal when you're finished."

[Chernobl]

Who else here has been called a hell bound heathen?

[Daistallia 2104]

Again, situational.

For instance, if these guests had been in the home before, and knew that the host family did not like to say grace, then absolutely it was out of line to ask them to say grace.

Fair enough. But I still think a polite host would have anticipated this before it came up - something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I know you like to say grace. We don't. Please do so before the meal or quietly to yourselves."

"We don't believe it is polite for you to sit down to a meal that we provided and cooked, and then thank God for that meal right in front of us."

I'd find that extremely rude.

Meh, venting on the internet.

It'd be one thing if you blew up at somebody in person over something like this, but it's perfectly reasonable to be frustrated and vent about it after the fact. That's how most people deal with annoying social situations...at the time, you just suck it up and stay polite, and then afterward you turn to your friend and say, "Damn those people were wankers, eh?"

True, true.

True, it'd be better to simply tell these people directly that their behavior is rude and unacceptable.

Mmmm... touchy that. Handled with kid gloves, maybe OK.

I call it the Golden Rule, personally.

If those guests like to treat others rudely and disrespectfully, then I take that as an indication of how they would like to be treated.

Isn't that more the LeVeyan "do unto others as they do unto you" rather than the Golden Rule. I always unerstood the Golden Rule to be "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", which would have you treat them politely regardless of their own behaviour.

[Katganistan]

The simplest solution, rather than inviting guests to share your home with whom you are not compatible, year after year, is....


DON'T INVITE THEM.

[Daistallia 2104]

"I applaud your devotion. However, in this house we don't like to reinforce superstition. You're welcome to say your 'grace' quietly to yourselves, and join our meal when you're finished."

Unnecessarily rude and belittleing.

Who else here has been called a hell bound heathen?

Moi.

[Daistallia 2104]

The simplest solution, rather than inviting guests to share your home with whom you are not compatible, year after year, is....


DON'T INVITE THEM.

Well that would just be downright rude.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

So we have visiters from Hawaii that come down to Port Alberni,Canada every year for about 2 months. They are nice enough people just one thing. They are heavy Christians. Now don't get me wrong they are great people... Just if they don't spread their beleifs. So any way we invited them for dinner and this is how it goes...


Dad:Well, dig in!
Hawaiin:Oh, well shouldn't we say grace?
Mom:Oh well we don't do that around here.
Hawaiin:Oh so your an athiest?
Mom:No, we are not either.
Dad:Well lets just eat our foo...
Hawaiin:HOLD on, we have to say grace.
Dad:Ok then...
Hawaiin:Thank you Lord Jesus for this wonderfull meal (blah blah blah)
Mom:Shouldn't you be thanking the chef that made it and not Jesus (laughs)
Hawaiin:You did a wondefull job.


So what do you guys have to say?

They shouldn't FORCE people to say grace; should they wish to do so for themselves, so be it, but there's NO need to call the thread: "DAMN" religious people. Sigh.

[Treznor]

"I applaud your devotion. However, in this house we don't like to reinforce superstition. You're welcome to say your 'grace' quietly to yourselves, and join our meal when you're finished."

Unnecessarily rude and belittleing.

Thank you. I hoped someone would notice. It would be at least as rude as imposing a religious ritual in someone else's home who does not welcome it.

[Purtovich]

Here's how that should have gone.

Them: Hey, shouldn't we say grace?
You guys: Eh, say grace if you want. I'll be eating.
Them: Cool. -Grace'd-
You: NOM NOM NOM.

Quoted for truth. I do that, everyone's happy. Unless, of course, they get offended, in which case i still couldn't give a crap about.