Damn religious people

[Straughn]

That's why I said I welcome CRITICIZING, not condemning.

... like "hell"?
*echo ... echo ... echo*

[Bottle]

Except, Bottle, I'm perfectly able to do that.

No need for the "except." I did note that "precious few" people are able to do that, but obviously there ARE people who can do it.

See my criticism of Creationists above.
The people who inform others that they are going to hell haven't any idea of what they're supposed to be doing. They tend to skip over the "love your neighbor as yourself" bit in favor of getting all self-righteous and holier-than-thou, and frankly I don't have any time or patience for that type either. I think Phelps is a perfectly horrible person, and the hatred that he and his followers spew is nauseating.

Well, this is kind of different from what I was getting at.

There's the end of the spectrum with people like Phelps. Then there's the end with people like...well, probably like you, honestly, or maybe Demi. But what annoys me is the people in between, who aren't Phelps but who will say things like, "Well, I don't PERSONALLY believe that we should all hate fags because the Bible Sez, but I respect the fact that my neighbor believes that."

Cause really? Fuck that.

Somebody claiming that we should hate fags because the Bible Sez is precisely the same as somebody saying that we should all believe in talking foxes because of the fable of the sour grapes. I really can't stand the attitude that religious beliefs should be somehow more protected than other beliefs, or that people's bullshit misunderstandings of religious books should be respected when such bullshit misunderstandings of any NON-religious book would be called what they are: bullshit.

[Hayteria]

Except, Bottle, I'm perfectly able to do that.

No need for the "except." I did note that "precious few" people are able to do that, but obviously there ARE people who can do it.

See my criticism of Creationists above.
The people who inform others that they are going to hell haven't any idea of what they're supposed to be doing. They tend to skip over the "love your neighbor as yourself" bit in favor of getting all self-righteous and holier-than-thou, and frankly I don't have any time or patience for that type either. I think Phelps is a perfectly horrible person, and the hatred that he and his followers spew is nauseating.

Well, this is kind of different from what I was getting at.

There's the end of the spectrum with people like Phelps. Then there's the end with people like...well, probably like you, honestly, or maybe Demi. But what annoys me is the people in between, who aren't Phelps but who will say things like, "Well, I don't PERSONALLY believe that we should all hate fags because the Bible Sez, but I respect the fact that my neighbor believes that."

Cause really? Fuck that.

Somebody claiming that we should hate fags because the Bible Sez is precisely the same as somebody saying that we should all believe in talking foxes because of the fable of the sour grapes. I really can't stand the attitude that religious beliefs should be somehow more protected than other beliefs, or that people's bullshit misunderstandings of religious books should be respected when such bullshit misunderstandings of any NON-religious book would be called what they are: bullshit.

Well said. The idea of "respecting" religious beliefs just sounds like an absurd social norm.

[Tunizcha]

Except, Bottle, I'm perfectly able to do that.

No need for the "except." I did note that "precious few" people are able to do that, but obviously there ARE people who can do it.

See my criticism of Creationists above.
The people who inform others that they are going to hell haven't any idea of what they're supposed to be doing. They tend to skip over the "love your neighbor as yourself" bit in favor of getting all self-righteous and holier-than-thou, and frankly I don't have any time or patience for that type either. I think Phelps is a perfectly horrible person, and the hatred that he and his followers spew is nauseating.

Well, this is kind of different from what I was getting at.

There's the end of the spectrum with people like Phelps. Then there's the end with people like...well, probably like you, honestly, or maybe Demi. But what annoys me is the people in between, who aren't Phelps but who will say things like, "Well, I don't PERSONALLY believe that we should all hate fags because the Bible Sez, but I respect the fact that my neighbor believes that."

Cause really? Fuck that.

Somebody claiming that we should hate fags because the Bible Sez is precisely the same as somebody saying that we should all believe in talking foxes because of the fable of the sour grapes. I really can't stand the attitude that religious beliefs should be somehow more protected than other beliefs, or that people's bullshit misunderstandings of religious books should be respected when such bullshit misunderstandings of any NON-religious book would be called what they are: bullshit.

Well said. The idea of "respecting" religious beliefs just sounds like an absurd social norm.

That reminds me. You don't respect people who still believe in Santa, so why should you respect them for believing something bigger and more incredulous.

[Lycandom]

by Spectorland
Still, religious people of all denominations are pains in my ass...

Cause you don't agree? Get over it, I'm sure they think your crap is annoying too. I don't understand why we can't just live and let live. You live with your beliefs and let me live with mine. They're asses because they're religious or because of the way they act? Believing something shouldn't make you an ass, the way you act could.

As George Carlin said, "This country is full of nitwits and assholes."
Assholes can be of the religious variety too.

Love how you quote an atheist comedian for your proof that religious people can be assholes too. They can, but that can be said by someone unbiased as well. Because Carlin's pretty up there on that list too.

They can be, of course, of many varieties.

by Straughn
... like "hell"?

...because I don't agree with you... You should really be a little more open to others opinions. My posts point out valid things just as yours do. Or was that supposed to be a joke. How about a little respect.

[Bottle]

Cause you don't agree? Get over it, I'm sure they think your crap is annoying too. I don't understand why we can't just live and let live. You live with your beliefs and let me live with mine. They're asses because they're religious or because of the way they act? Believing something shouldn't make you an ass, the way you act could.

I don't agree with this, either.

If Jane believes that all black people are inferior subhumans, then Jane is an asshole in my book no matter how polite she may behave. If Bill believes that women are merely incubators with legs, he's an asshole no matter how nice he acts. If Frank believes that gay people are filthy sinners who deserve to spend an eternity in Hell, then I don't care if he acts civil around me, he's still a douchenozzle.

The fact that I support everyone's RIGHT to believe what they want doesn't mean I give up my right to think they're a complete fucking ass for believing it.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

LOL....this has gone off for twenty pages.

[Buffett and Colbert]

LOL....this has gone off for twenty pages.

It's NSG. Just when you think a thread will die, some troll comes in spouting bullshit and of course, the people with no lives, such as myself, have to come in and slap them on the wrist. *nods*

[Bitchkitten]

So we have visiters from Hawaii that come down to Port Alberni,Canada every year for about 2 months. They are nice enough people just one thing. They are heavy Christians. Now don't get me wrong they are great people... Just if they don't spread their beleifs. So any way we invited them for dinner and this is how it goes...


Dad:Well, dig in!
Hawaiin:Oh, well shouldn't we say grace?
Mom:Oh well we don't do that around here.
Hawaiin:Oh so your an athiest?
Mom:No, we are not either.
Dad:Well lets just eat our foo...
Hawaiin:HOLD on, we have to say grace.
Dad:Ok then...
Hawaiin:Thank you Lord Jesus for this wonderfull meal (blah blah blah)
Mom:Shouldn't you be thanking the chef that made it and not Jesus (laughs)
Hawaiin:You did a wondefull job.


So what do you guys have to say?

You can be like Penn & Teller. They simply don't invite religious people into their homes. Works for me.
http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/episodes.do

[Straughn]

You just don't get it. Did you even read any religious texts?

I guess we're-a gonna find out, pardnah.

[Straughn]

You should really be a little more open to others opinions. My posts point out valid things just as yours do.

... not so open that my brain falls out and fills with whatever hot air the environment provides?
Could be that i'm at a point in my life that i've been able to, more or less, successfully weed out significant bullshit from my thinking. I respect that what works for me doesn't necessarily work for everyone else, and as well, that's a philosophy that is sorely lacking among religious-minded folk, in my experience.

Or was that supposed to be a joke.

Funny thing, humour. Best quality being degrees of absurdity, in my experience ... does your experience corroborate that?

How about a little respect.

You'll get more when you sing that to me than when you don't.
Seriously though, do you respect that other people's lives and philosophies are perhaps results of their experiences for and against some of the ideas you espouse? Perhaps that my own experience with this particular subject matter, even using the same source material, has led me to direct opposition to many persons who may be like yourself?

A way to consider approaching this issue is the recognition that the answers you can have about a subject matter is mutually accessible and therefore debatable, and when a person asks you to verify or prove something, that you admit when you can and when you can't. For starters.

[Straughn]

LOL....this has gone off for twenty pages.

... usually do. Often, to the lockdown.

[Lycandom]

You should really be a little more open to others opinions. My posts point out valid things just as yours do.

... not so open that my brain falls out and fills with whatever hot air the environment provides?
Could be that i'm at a point in my life that i've been able to, more or less, successfully weed out significant bullshit from my thinking. I respect that what works for me doesn't necessarily work for everyone else, and as well, that's a philosophy that is sorely lacking among religious-minded folk, in my experience.

Well, you didn't meet me and you certainly haven't met a whole lot of the other millions upon millions of people around the world who are religious. Also, your geographic location and your country's views on religion have a huge impact on what "type" of religious people live in your area. We are not all the same, just like all "atheists" are not the same. Your experiences were bad and I feel for you. I've stated before that I have had some bad experiences with intolerant people that did stuff to me because I'm religious. It is wrong either way. We should be able to be who we are and believe what we want. If God inspires us to be good people than that's not a bad thing. If you have something else that works for you more power to you. I'm glad that you've found that niche for you. I don't think that differing opinions should be considered "hot air", but whatever you think. I personally think that our disagreements and what makes us us is what is beautiful about the world and especially the Free World.

Or was that supposed to be a joke.

Funny thing, humour. Best quality being degrees of absurdity, in my experience ... does your experience corroborate that?

How about a little respect. I was serious. Sarcasm on the internet doesn't read well and I could have worded it better, but I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement and was seeking clarification. I apologize for offending you. I do respect your opinions, they work for you and as long as you aren't hurting anyone else then live and let live.

You'll get more when you sing that to me than when you don't.
Seriously though, do you respect that other people's lives and philosophies are perhaps results of their experiences for and against some of the ideas you espouse? Perhaps that my own experience with this particular subject matter, even using the same source material, has led me to direct opposition to many persons who may be like yourself?

Right, but I don't like intolerance and some of those people you speak of don't like religion because they don't and they don't want others to practice it to the point of simple-minded oppression. I don't agree with oppression of anyone on any level including religious belief and I don't like hate mongers who spread anti-religious slurs either. It isn't right. I do respect you as long as you aren't hurting others or spreading hatred. If you respectfully disagree, but understand that others believe it and you don't have to and as long as you understand that not all religious people force their beliefs on others than I'm good. You can directly oppose me, but you can't tell me what to believe.


A way to consider approaching this issue is the recognition that the answers you can have about a subject matter is mutually accessible and therefore debatable, and when a person asks you to verify or prove something, that you admit when you can and when you can't. For starters.

I can't prove that God is real, but I know that He is. That is what I've always said. I can't prove it, but I don't have to. Jsut like you don't have to prove that what you believe happened. You believe it regardless, right? I can admit when I'm wrong, but I can't admit that I'm wrong when you think I am if I disagree. All religious texts are mutually accessible, but personal experience either with science or with religion are not for people who have never had them or lack the ability to read and understand them. I just think that the world needs more respect for others and less centrism. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with being religious and I'm sick of people looking at me like I'm nuts because I believe in something that you can't see. It's ridiculous. A person should not have to live with ridicule like that. It shouldn't be a shunned thing from the public eye or such a hated belief. I understand that there will always be persecution not just for religious people, but for others, but I openly oppose it and I will not stand by and let it happen. A little respect is in order and less of this mental delusion and hokey pokey nonsense.

[Penn and Teller] - They simply don't invite religious people into their homes.

That's horrible. I liked their special they had on when I was like 5 with the magic on prime time. I know that's off topic, but I really liked that show. There isn't enough magic shows or magicians anymore on T.V.

Also, that's rude. Not inviting people over to your house, just because of their religion is horribly not oppressive...looking for the word...assinine and rude. You shouldn't dislike someone because they believe something different than you. That's really closed off and simple minded. If you don't like them as people or don't get along with them that is one thing, but just because your religions don't match is a completely wrong thing.

A person's religious affiliation has nothing to do with how good of a person they are.

[Straughn]

your geographic location and your country's views on religion have a huge impact on what "type" of religious people live in your area.

I live in a state filled with rightwing fucktards. Here's one of 'em:
http://www.adn.com/opinion/letters/story/909890.html

Rev. Prevo: Regarding your statement, "This ordinance was going to force small-business owners particularly to accommodate people who choose a certain lifestyle" (New York Times, Aug. 18).

Currently small-business owners are particularly forced to accommodate people who choose a religious lifestyle.

How is this different?

We are not all the same, just like all "atheists" are not the same. Your experiences were bad and I feel for you.

Erm, not any more or less than an average person, probably. I just prioritized them differently than some others might have.

I've stated before that I have had some bad experiences with intolerant people that did stuff to me because I'm religious. It is wrong either way. We should be able to be who we are and believe what we want. If God inspires us to be good people than that's not a bad thing. If you have something else that works for you more power to you. I'm glad that you've found that niche for you. I don't think that differing opinions should be considered "hot air", but whatever you think. I personally think that our disagreements and what makes us us is what is beautiful about the world and especially the Free World.

You should be able to revel then, in all manner of disparity, disjunction, discommunion and discontinuity, for it is, as i said, imperfect plotting growing the seeds of time.
So a laugh not of derision but of appreciation is probably what's in order.
I discriminate between an opinion based in fact and an opinion based in wishful thinking quite often - and that's where the discrimination leads to me thinking a person may have issues with hot air. Speaking generally, of course.
Also, it's not a "free world". At least, i'll sorely and sincerely task you to adequate supplement that assertion.

I was serious. Sarcasm on the internet doesn't read well and I could have worded it better, but I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement and was seeking clarification. I apologize for offending you.

No worries. There's more important things to worry about, to be sure, but i appreciate your approach.

I do respect your opinions, they work for you and as long as you aren't hurting anyone else then live and let live.

I'm pretty much that way, generally. I don't fault people for having beliefs based upon actual experiences. I do however fault people for lack of due dilligence in their convictions ... especially the ones that result in their actions against other people.

Right, but I don't like intolerance and some of those people you speak of don't like religion because they don't and they don't want others to practice it to the point of simple-minded oppression. I don't agree with oppression of anyone on any level including religious belief and I don't like hate mongers who spread anti-religious slurs either. It isn't right. I do respect you as long as you aren't hurting others or spreading hatred. If you respectfully disagree, but understand that others believe it and you don't have to and as long as you understand that not all religious people force their beliefs on others than I'm good. You can directly oppose me, but you can't tell me what to believe.

I can tell you what to believe, but you don't have to believe me.

I can't prove that God is real, but I know that He is.

Then you would have to prepare for people to call you on it.

That is what I've always said. I can't prove it, but I don't have to.

It really depends on how seriously you want to be taken by other people. A lot of the "live & let live" approach is just that - knowing that there's certain lines of character a person endorses that differ from yours, and as long as that person has the responsibility to deal with the consequences alone, as an individual, there's not much of a problem to be had.

Jsut like you don't have to prove that what you believe happened. You believe it regardless, right? I can admit when I'm wrong, but I can't admit that I'm wrong when you think I am if I disagree.

So it's about agreeing to disagree?

All religious texts are mutually accessible, but personal experience either with science or with religion are not for people who have never had them or lack the ability to read and understand them.

Here is where i must disagree, and i should leave you to think upon it a minute. This is pretty crucial, really, forgive the expression.

I just think that the world needs more respect for others and less centrism. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with being religious and I'm sick of people looking at me like I'm nuts because I believe in something that you can't see. It's ridiculous. A person should not have to live with ridicule like that. It shouldn't be a shunned thing from the public eye or such a hated belief. I understand that there will always be persecution not just for religious people, but for others, but I openly oppose it and I will not stand by and let it happen. A little respect is in order and less of this mental delusion and hokey pokey nonsense.

Again i would have to reiterate the part about someone else's conclusions using the same evidence. But we've covered that.

A person's religious affiliation has nothing to do with how good of a person they are.

It does, but it isn't the key determining factor.

[Lycandom]

your geographic location and your country's views on religion have a huge impact on what "type" of religious people live in your area.

I live in a state filled with rightwing fucktards. Here's one of 'em:
http://www.adn.com/opinion/letters/story/909890.html

Why do you think all religious people are rightwing exactly? How does that have anything to do with religion and why religion can be viewed differently in different areas of the world? It actually proves my point. Your regional area might have a larger number of right wingers who are religious than left wingers and thus your area views all religious people as radical. That's a cultural issue. Plus, I've got a lot of radicals in my country too, I feel your pain. (I get sick of people portraying religious people badly because some crazy says their such and such a sect. So? That doesn't make what your saying religious or right wing or right.)

We are not all the same, just like all "atheists" are not the same. Your experiences were bad and I feel for you.

Erm, not any more or less than an average person, probably. I just prioritized them differently than some others might have.

I'm not attempting to change your mind because most people are set in their ways no matter what. I'm just attempting to open some minds up to the possibility that religious people aren't bad. I know that sounds crazy right? I just get so disgusted by the actions of some people regarding religion. It seems silly that people are so afraid of something that they don't even think is real. Not speaking directly to you of course, but I just find it very closed minded and simple those people. Most of them don't even understand religion to begin with. Some of them don't understand what they say they believe in. It gets redundant and ridiculous as well as pointless because they don't want to learn outside of their bubble.

I've stated before that I have had some bad experiences with intolerant people that did stuff to me because I'm religious. It is wrong either way. We should be able to be who we are and believe what we want. If God inspires us to be good people than that's not a bad thing. If you have something else that works for you more power to you. I'm glad that you've found that niche for you. I don't think that differing opinions should be considered "hot air", but whatever you think. I personally think that our disagreements and what makes us us is what is beautiful about the world and especially the Free World.

You should be able to revel then, in all manner of disparity, disjunction, discommunion and discontinuity, for it is, as i said, imperfect plotting growing the seeds of time.
So a laugh not of derision but of appreciation is probably what's in order.
I discriminate between an opinion based in fact and an opinion based in wishful thinking quite often - and that's where the discrimination leads to me thinking a person may have issues with hot air. Speaking generally, of course.
Also, it's not a "free world". At least, i'll sorely and sincerely task you to adequate supplement that assertion.

First, I agree, I don't think highly of an opinion not based in some kind of fact, but then again, there will always be unexplained occurrences.

Well, I think that the western world is mostly free at least as free as it can be without being delved into chaos and anarchy. Cultures and nations have to have structure and no you can't go down the street and punch that ass of a neighbor you have, but freedom was never quoted as being a philosophy for violence. Largely, I'm free and no one can take my thoughts and my beliefs away from me. They can try, but they'll never take your spirit because your spirit is free. They can throw you in prison and swallow the key, but all they have done is shackle your body not your mind.

I'm an advocator of you did the crime now you do the time personally. I don't think that - disparity, disjunction, discommunion and discontinuity all fall under proper freedom.

I was serious. Sarcasm on the internet doesn't read well and I could have worded it better, but I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement and was seeking clarification. I apologize for offending you.

No worries. There's more important things to worry about, to be sure, but i appreciate your approach.

I do respect your opinions, they work for you and as long as you aren't hurting anyone else then live and let live.

I'm pretty much that way, generally. I don't fault people for having beliefs based upon actual experiences. I do however fault people for lack of due dilligence in their convictions ... especially the ones that result in their actions against other people.

I don't respect people who use belief systems to harm others either and I also don't respect people who generalize about people including religion, but not limited to. I read some crazy radical stuff in my own local newspaper about things and it really sadly makes me laugh, some radicals...geez.

Right, but I don't like intolerance and some of those people you speak of don't like religion because they don't and they don't want others to practice it to the point of simple-minded oppression. I don't agree with oppression of anyone on any level including religious belief and I don't like hate mongers who spread anti-religious slurs either. It isn't right. I do respect you as long as you aren't hurting others or spreading hatred. If you respectfully disagree, but understand that others believe it and you don't have to and as long as you understand that not all religious people force their beliefs on others than I'm good. You can directly oppose me, but you can't tell me what to believe.

I can tell you what to believe, but you don't have to believe me.

While that is true. That isn't true at the same time. You can tell me what to believe and no I won't follow it. But, if you enact penalties and turn it into oppression that is another matter. Also, slurs are never ever tolerable. No one should be okay with anyone slurring anyone based on anything not limited to their religion.

Also, telling someone else what to believe takes away their personality and their individuality as well as their freedom. Most people should just live and let live.

I can't prove that God is real, but I know that He is.

Then you would have to prepare for people to call you on it.

Call me on it. I can call you on stuff too. But, that doesn't mean you won't believe it. That also doesn't mean there is a line that you shouldn't cross. That line is intolerance.

That is what I've always said. I can't prove it, but I don't have to.

It really depends on how seriously you want to be taken by other people. A lot of the "live & let live" approach is just that - knowing that there's certain lines of character a person endorses that differ from yours, and as long as that person has the responsibility to deal with the consequences alone, as an individual, there's not much of a problem to be had.

It makes no difference to me what religion my friends are. In fact, I don't ask them. They can tell me if they want, but that's a personal thing. Some people are proud of it, some people are touchy about it. I find that the simplest method is live and let live. Which means don't tell me what to believe and I won't tell you to try and say that again.

Jsut like you don't have to prove that what you believe happened. You believe it regardless, right? I can admit when I'm wrong, but I can't admit that I'm wrong when you think I am if I disagree.

So it's about agreeing to disagree?

First, I can have healthy conversations with people who don't agree with me. It's called discussing. People are different and that is a good thing. The key word there is healthy though. We don't have to say let's just agree to disagree if you are open and not judgmental. I only try to employ that method if you are berating and a total idiot about respecting others. But at any rate, that agree to disagree mostly fails because a lot of people who drive you to that point are indignant fools.

Well, there are gray areas if that's what you mean. There are things that overlap, things that we both can agree on as two mostly different people. But, essentially all human experience along the lines of conversation is agreeance or disagreeance. But, we could just respect each other you know like normal functioning individuals. I prefer that one myself. I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to and still then they can earn it back. What makes someone a good person is not their religion, their political affiliation, or anything else. It is whether or not they possess the ability to learn and grow as an individual. That includes tolerance among the most important. Someone disagreeing with you shouldn't matter in your scheme of life. You should surround yourself with positive people who you are friends with (this doesn't mean avoiding people who are different than you, that would result in an unenriched life. We only get one don't be stupid about it. Religious people and non-religious people can be friends that's a fact. Its the ones who tell you they can't that are the problem). You should never shut anyone out because they have something similar like the same religion as someone who you had a bad experience with. That is the person who you should stay away from. It is really silly to generalize. Just respect each other it is that simple.

All religious texts are mutually accessible, but personal experience either with science or with religion are not for people who have never had them or lack the ability to read and understand them.

Here is where i must disagree, and i should leave you to think upon it a minute. This is pretty crucial, really, forgive the expression.

I just think that the world needs more respect for others and less centrism. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with being religious and I'm sick of people looking at me like I'm nuts because I believe in something that you can't see. It's ridiculous. A person should not have to live with ridicule like that. It shouldn't be a shunned thing from the public eye or such a hated belief. I understand that there will always be persecution not just for religious people, but for others, but I openly oppose it and I will not stand by and let it happen. A little respect is in order and less of this mental delusion and hokey pokey nonsense.

Again i would have to reiterate the part about someone else's conclusions using the same evidence. But we've covered that.

Don't reiterate, not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you want to learn something go out and learn it yourself. Don't let others tell you what to think. You should make your own conclusions, your own solid conclusions from your experiences as well as facts, not opinions of others or flaky statistics. Learn it and then your conclusions can be respected. If you base your conclusions on, for example, the Bible, but you don't even understand it then no your conclusions aren't based on any real evidence, but the evidence you created based on your preconceived notions or on your wrong understanding. For example, if you read a math problem and the question says a train is going such and such mph and another is going such and such mph when will they meet? You say the answer is 2 o'clock. Well, when you look at the answer key, it is actually 3 o'clock. At this point you don't know why you got it wrong so you find out. Religion doesn't have an answer key so when someone comes to a bad conclusion, they can't really find out that they're wrong especially if that conclusion leads them to not like religious people who are really the only ones that you can compare answers with.

lack the ability to read and understand them - This means, when I tell you my personal experience, you don't have to believe the same thing I concluded or even believe that it actually happened to me, but you should at least try to understand where I'm coming from. Because if you don't then your conclusions aren't solid because you don't have any idea what happened.

That's my point. I know some people will never emerge from the falsities that they have submerged themselves into, but the simplest thing we can all do as people is respect on another. You don't have to believe what another person believes, but their religion, their sexual orientation, none of those things makes them good or bad. It makes you bad to automatically think that affiliation makes them horrible.

A person's religious affiliation has nothing to do with how good of a person they are.

It does, but it isn't the key determining factor.

How does it?

Priests can be bad people. Scientologists can be good people. Your religion doesn't make you who you are. You can read the required texts and not follow them, but think that you are or just say that you are. You can twist the texts to match your own twisted soul, but that doesn't make you religious. You can't pick and choose the portions of the texts that you want to believe. You either believe them or you don't, but that doesn't make you who you are. Your religion can contribute to your personality and your belief systems, but it doesn't define you. You seem like an atheist (correct me if I'm wrong), but just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I automatically think oh, he's going to hell blah blah blah. None of those things ever crosses my mind. You are you and I'm me. We can be friends regardless of our religions.

Once again, your religious affiliation doesn't mean anything. Mobsters go to church does that make them good people? Atheists don't does that make them bad people? Of course not. Your actions make you good or bad not what you profess as your religious beliefs.

[Buffett and Colbert]

While that is true. That isn't true at the same time. You can tell me what to believe and no I won't follow it. But, if you enact penalties and turn it into oppression that is another matter. Also, slurs are never ever tolerable. No one should be okay with anyone slurring anyone based on anything not limited to their religion.

Tsk, tsk...

Lycy, what did I tell you about the use of "oppression"?

[Lycandom]

Look Buffett, I'm not saying you're doing it, but face it it happens and it happens largely to religious people. Look at France, great example their recent laws are oppressive toward Muslim women.

Oppression is real and I stand by what I said in my last post. When it reaches that point enough is enough. Regardless of whether you believe or do what is being oppressed or not you shouldn't let oppression happen.

[Kobrania]

If I ever move to the states, I would be oppressed in the fact I would have the rights given to married couples denied to me because of religion.

Fuck them.

[Treznor]

Look Buffett, I'm not saying you're doing it, but face it it happens and it happens largely to religious people. Look at France, great example their recent laws are oppressive toward Muslim women.

Oppression is real and I stand by what I said in my last post. When it reaches that point enough is enough. Regardless of whether you believe or do what is being oppressed or not you shouldn't let oppression happen.

Query: what's the difference between challenging someone's claims and oppressing them?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Query: what's the difference between challenging someone's claims and oppressing them?

From what I've seen of Lycandom, criticism = oppression. Dawkins is oppressive because even though he doesn't want to outlaw religion, he calls it bad names like "delusion"!

[Kobrania]

Query: what's the difference between challenging someone's claims and oppressing them?

From what I've seen of Lycandom, criticism = oppression. Dawkins is oppressive because even though he doesn't want to outlaw religion, he calls it bad names like "delusion"!

How is that oppressive?! I don't call people oppressive if they call me fag or beat me shitless, I call them oppressive if they try to stop me having sex or making out in public.

[Allied Governments]

Can someone tell me why simply saying grace is such a "horrific act of attempted conversion?"

[Kobrania]

Because they tell us to join in(or else)?

[EvilDarkMagicians]

LOL....this has gone off for twenty pages.

It's NSG. Just when you think a thread will die, some troll comes in spouting bullshit and of course, the people with no lives, such as myself, have to come in and slap them on the wrist. *nods*

Duly noted *nods sagely*.

[Northern Delmarva]

Because they tell us to join in(or else)?

Because closing your eyes and bowing your head for about 30 seconds is just too hard?