Your stance on gay marriage

[Shikkago]

right, so why not just keep the law out of it?

Because it's a legal matter?

Marriage is a contract.

And when you add to that the ways in which marriage gains significant recognition - like visitation rights, or immigration rights - it's even more important.

haha what I keep saying is, that I don't think it should be a legal matter or a legal contract. It should be only a civil manner. I also think that visitation and immigration rights need to be expanded (in U.S.) anyway, I don't think marriage solves those huge problems. If you're in the hospital you should be allowed to see whoever you want. If you want to immigrate with your significant other regardless of the legal status of that relationship you should be able to do it. But like I've said about three times now, it is a whole nother can of worms and I got bigger fish to fry and all that, just thought I'd put that out there as everyone takes for granted that legally recognized marriage is a good thing and I think there's room to debate that.

[Samuraikoku]

That might depend who you ask. Functionally, I would say 'yes'. Theoretically, states are obliged to recognise 'common law' marriage, but in reality, I think only about a dozen do. So, there's a practical requirement for a legally binding document, signed before witnesses, and sanctioned by the state/federal government/constitution.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it is a contract. I guess it depends on how you define "contract" as well. A public legally binding document, depending on its contents, may or may not be a contract. At least in Argentina's legal system that is. For example, a sentence of adoption is just that, and it's not a contract.

[Marlboro Kid]

But you created a hole in the marriage wall.

Politicians sometimes create bad laws, while they know it’s a bad law, they also know it’s sometimes needed to influence the public.
It's better to move slowly than not moving at all.

What is this hole in the marriage wall?

At a sudden point the civil partnership will be close to the marriage.

People will start wondering: "why don't we have a problem with a civil partnership for all (heterosexuals and gay people), but do have a problem with the gay marriage? There's no reason for, get rid of this ridiculous discrimination and make the marriage accessible for all too"

The trick is to get people used to an idea or concept and give them the feeling they discovered it all on their own.

That's politics, my friend.

[Shikkago]

When I think gay marriage, I don't just think of the country I was born and live in (the USA) or those I have visited (Portugal, Germany, Canada, ect). I consider the worldwide ramifications.

Me, personally, I think that a person's sexual preference is irrelevant when compared to the spate of issues that go into marriage. After all, is a man-and-wife who prefer using sex toys, anal sex, and oral sex any better or worse then a same-sex couple who prefer the same things?

Better, I think, to consider something other then the relative genders involved. Do the people love each other? Can they get along with each other without fighting tooth-and-nail over every little issue? Can they support one another, be it financially or emotionally? Do they share values and can they be happy together?

If the answers here are all yes, then I personally don't think that the genders of the people involved is even an issue. Me, I'm male and married to my wife and happily so, but have not been immune to being held and cuddled by people I care about, male or female.

Sexuality bias seems to me as a silly thing to indulge in. Yes, many homosexuals are "in your face" about it. But then again, so are many heterosexuals; I think we've all met or seen stereotypical examples thereof; the guys who will sleep with any woman they can get drunk, the testosterone-driven sports-bar-dwelling "real man" types. Is a gay guy who wears a t-shirt that says "I Kissed Your Boyfriend" really more in your face then some construction worker who wears a "Free Mustache Rides" t-shirt? It's really all the same, most people just have stopped noticing the "macho" guys. And to date, I've met many more gay men and women who don't advertise their sexuality then those who draw attention to it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that marriage is not an institution, nor is it a legal or religious event. Marriage is really nothing more then people saying "I love and respect and care about you and want to be around you." Who cares about gender? When the government is involved, the number of penises or vaginas really doesn't matter - it's all drab paperwork that only exists to keep people employed by shuffling it around. When religion is involved, then it's up to your god to judge, not you or your pastor or your church; what do you care if someone else might or might not go to Hell? Take care of yourself and let others worry about their own souls. Isn't the world hard enough these days without worrying about others? If your god objects to something, he'll do something about it, either in this world or the next. But that's not your job, it's his. Unless you somehow think you're more qualified to judge another then your deity is?

And on the last legal note. People aren't going to do - or not do - something because of the legality. You can make laws all day long and people will still love who they love, do what they want to do, and live how they want to live. Sure, a law may prevent a small portion of the civic-minded from persuing what they want, but will it stop the majority? Look at how many people smoke marijuana illegally before answering. Or how many people world-wide own contraband, everything from firearms to banned books.

So on the whole, I support marriage - not as a institution between a man and a women - but between people who care for and respect one another. I also strongly object to people marrying who don't; to me, an abusive, loveless, or bitter relationship is far more repugnant then the genders involved. I'd rather see two gay people happy together, then a straight couple where alcoholism, wife-beating, and other such things occur. Not that straight people are more prone to such things; I believe that gender and sexuality have little to do with such issues. Everyone has their issues and imperfections. Instead of worrying about sexuality, worry instead about emotional compatibility.

These are my views. I know that on the grand scope, I am a minority. As a species, we are still trying to escape barbaric cultural values, despite a high level of technology. There are places all over the world where slavery, racial hatred, and religious zealotry are commonplace. Values are left over from times when life was very different, and many have no reasoning behind them in today's societies other then tradition. The world is not the same place it was a thousand years ago, but until people as a whole stop clinging to the past and start looking towards the future, then we will still be plagued by these and other problems. While we should preserve our pasts, it's foolish to live in them like a thirty-five year old still living at home and getting an allowance from their parents. Our past was our species' childhood.

In my opinion, it's time for us to grow up.

~Dalik Of Underhell~

wow, really well said. right on.

[Arivali]

Tradition? There's one good fact . . . it is traditional to have marriage between a man and a woman. . .

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

[Samuraikoku]

At a sudden point the civil partnership will be close to the marriage.

People will start wondering: "why don't we have a problem with a civil partnership for all (heterosexuals and gay people), but do have a problem with the gay marriage? There's no reason for, get rid of this ridiculous discrimination and make the marriage accessible for all too"

The trick is to get people used to an idea or concept and give them the feeling they discovered it all on their own.

That's politics, my friend.

Doesn't solve the problem. A problem that shouldn't be in the first place, since all we're doing is enforcing the Constitution. All men are equal, so they have equal rights. Homosexual people have the same right as heterosexual people to be in a civil union named marriage, regardless of any religion. And the law supersedes the interest of any religious people who might see a correlation between marriage and religion. That doesn't make us intolerant, it makes us law followers and doing what is just right.

[Shikkago]

What is this hole in the marriage wall?

At a sudden point the civil partnership will be close to the marriage.

People will start wondering: "why don't we have a problem with a civil partnership for all (heterosexuals and gay people), but do have a problem with the gay marriage? There's no reason for, get rid of this ridiculous discrimination and make the marriage accessible for all too"

The trick is to get people used to an idea or concept and give them the feeling they discovered it all on their own.

That's politics, my friend.

that's like "medical marijuana". It's so silly, I hate all this pussy-footing and half-stepping crap, just grow a pair and make laws that make sense. but yea, you're right, that's politics. *sigh*.

[Marlboro Kid]

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

Because your country is not a Eclectic Solitary Pagan country but probably one with deep roots in Christianity.

Religion or the lack of any can be part of the culture of your country. Like it or not and get over it.

[Samuraikoku]

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

He did what he always does, come, grab the attention, then cry about how he is outnumbered and how his opinion is idiotic because he is so young, and run away after saying how intolerant we are. Don't feed him.

[Deppreeve]

On the other side.

Why is it funny to be debating with a 14 year old? Am I not allowed to have an opinion. . ? I know, you're legally adults, but you don't act very mature.

He/she does have a point. ^ I myself am an overgrown child.

[South Waxhaw]

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

Not merely Christian... Have fun finding a major world religion where even 10% are homosexual

[Samuraikoku]

He/she does have a point. ^ I myself am an overgrown child.

I have the mind of an 8 year old.

[Haedoji]

What do you think about gay marriage? Personally gays annoy the living crap out of me, but I also think that it's plain wrong For the government to decide who you can and cannot marry.

Damn those gays, with their superior fashion sense, their impeccable work ethic, and their incredibly amazing ability to dance to any song and make it look good.

Pretty damn true ^

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What the holy fuck is with the deluge of one post wonders recently?

Summer, NA, it's Summer.

To answer the OP's simplistic first post... I am pro gay marriage.

[Marlboro Kid]

At a sudden point the civil partnership will be close to the marriage.

People will start wondering: "why don't we have a problem with a civil partnership for all (heterosexuals and gay people), but do have a problem with the gay marriage? There's no reason for, get rid of this ridiculous discrimination and make the marriage accessible for all too"

The trick is to get people used to an idea or concept and give them the feeling they discovered it all on their own.

That's politics, my friend.

Doesn't solve the problem. A problem that shouldn't be in the first place, since all we're doing is enforcing the Constitution. All men are equal, so they have equal rights. Homosexual people have the same right as heterosexual people to be in a civil union named marriage, regardless of any religion. And the law supersedes the interest of any religious people who might see a correlation between marriage and religion. That doesn't make us intolerant, it makes us law followers and doing what is just right.

Problem is that you don’t have a majority among the common people and politicians.

Better search for a consensus and move on bit by bit than not at all.

[Samuraikoku]

Summer, NA, it's Summer.

Don't people go to a pool or something in summer instead of trolling in a forum?

[Samuraikoku]

Problem is that you don’t have a majority among the common people and politicians.

Better search for a consensus and move on bit by bit than not at all.

I don't care. Civil rights are civil rights. And the law is the law.

[Xarem]

Why? If you can think of a good reason that can be proved by fact (AKA not god) then I will respect your right to believe it

Tradition? There's one good fact . . . it is traditional to have marriage between a man and a woman. . .

People used to do it, so we should do it now, I have many arguments to this, and I shall pick, SLAVERY

[Shikkago]

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

Not merely Christian... Have fun finding a major world religion where even 10% are homosexual

umm... yea... we're like 5% of the population. everywhere. in the world. That has nothing to do with religion.

Interestingly, we're still 5% even in religious groups that forbid us from existing.

Although I guess 100% of the "ex-gays" are gay, if that counts as a religious sect.

[Fson]

if you want

[Fagans]

I love the gays.

[Grave_n_idle]

That might depend who you ask. Functionally, I would say 'yes'. Theoretically, states are obliged to recognise 'common law' marriage, but in reality, I think only about a dozen do. So, there's a practical requirement for a legally binding document, signed before witnesses, and sanctioned by the state/federal government/constitution.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it is a contract. I guess it depends on how you define "contract" as well. A public legally binding document, depending on its contents, may or may not be a contract. At least in Argentina's legal system that is. For example, a sentence of adoption is just that, and it's not a contract.

I don't know. I'd say that, if it's legally binding, it might well count as a contract.

[Shikkago]

Problem is that you don’t have a majority among the common people and politicians.

Better search for a consensus and move on bit by bit than not at all.

I don't care. Civil rights are civil rights. And the law is the law.

^this. It is not the right of a majority to deprive the minority of rights.

In countries where homos are executed, I wouldn't work to step it down to life in prison, I would work to make it totally legal. Sure, I wouldn't jump straight to marriage but I wouldn't hold back from it either.

[Samuraikoku]

I don't know. I'd say that, if it's legally binding, it might well count as a contract.

In the act of marriage, according to our legislation, we have personal obligations (fidelity, mutual assistance, etc.) and patrimonial obligations (what you may know as alimony). We see contracts as exclusively patrimonial, that's why.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Summer, NA, it's Summer.

Don't people go to a pool or something in summer instead of trolling in a forum?

Apparently not.