Your stance on gay marriage

[Unhealthy2]

But the fact remains that a large number of people are against homosexuality,

So? Popular =/= correct.

and have logical arguments against it.

I very much doubt that. Present me with a fully rational argument against homosexuality.

[Samuraikoku]

14th Amendment - both Due Process and Equal Protection clauses.

See Loving v's Virginia.

Oh no, that doesn't apply, because even interracial marriage is heterosexual marriage.

Notice the irony.

[Moon Cows]

Oh, well, I suppose that I did 'run in defeat'. When you 'adults' start acting 'grown-up', I'll come back. You don't take me seriously because I'm so young? Well, that just shows that in reality, you are the close-minded ones.

[Samuraikoku]

But the fact remains that a large number of people are against homosexuality,

Millions of flies feed on garbage and crap. Does it make it healthy?

[Salandriagado]

I just have one last question, to Grave n idle for the most part, where does the Constitution say anything about marriage?

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Not specifically about marriage, but it does say that you can't screw people over.

[Samuraikoku]

Oh, well, I suppose that I did 'run in defeat'. When you 'adults' start acting 'grown-up', I'll come back. You don't take me seriously because I'm so young? Well, that just shows that in reality, you are the close-minded ones.

Victimizing yourself under the excuse of intolerance again.

[Marlboro Kid]

You aren't tolerant either.

I accept MoonCow his point of view, doesn't mean I share it, but I accept his view. It's not that difficult, it's called empathy.

Why should I be tolerant to people who are intolerant?

Because it would make you equal intolerant. In a society you can't do good for all. Whatever you rule, some people will not like it.
Sometimes it needs time to find a consensus, sometimes you can find a solution that's serving all the people.

Only 40 years ago, it was unthinkable that a black guy could be an American president. Today it's possible. It means ethics & morals can change and sometimes they do change fast.

[Grave_n_idle]

14th Amendment - both Due Process and Equal Protection clauses.

See Loving v's Virginia.

Oh no, that doesn't apply, because even interracial marriage is heterosexual marriage.

Notice the irony.

Ah, my attorney friend, you of all people know the vale of precedent.

Loving v's Virginia establishes marriage as not only a Constitutional 'right', but one that has explicit 'equality protected' status.

[Samuraikoku]

Because it would make you equal intolerant. In a society you can't do good for all. Whatever you rule, some people will not like it. Sometimes it needs time to find a consensus, sometimes you can find a solution that's serving all the people.

Are you looking to find consensus with people who don't want to have consensus?

Ah, my attorney friend, you of all people know the vale of precedent.

Loving v's Virginia establishes marriage as not only a Constitutional 'right', but one that has explicit 'equality protected' status.

And knowing how the stare decisis et quieta non movere rule operates in your land, it only follows that this precedent should be respected.

[Grave_n_idle]

Oh, well, I suppose that I did 'run in defeat'. When you 'adults' start acting 'grown-up', I'll come back. You don't take me seriously because I'm so young? Well, that just shows that in reality, you are the close-minded ones.

I don't take you seriously because your arguments were all opinion, and the Constitution makes a mockery of such argument.

Give me real arguments, and I'll take them seriously. If all you have is "God said" or "Gay is icky" or "it's a choice"... then no, I won't take you seriously.

[Marlboro Kid]

So your constitution is designed to make the people speechless? Or did I misinterpret you?

Referendum are rare here, I wish we had them more. You can’t fix everything with this, think about the NIMBY syndrome, but it can work for most ethical & moral problems.

The Constitution is designed specifically to avoid tyranny of the majority.

It does allow for an overwhelming majority to amend the Constitution, thus assuring that Democracy has some tempering influence, but it's deliberately designed in such a way that mere popularity is not enough to change the law.

A normal majority (50%) can't change our constitution either. You need, what we call, a special majority (75%).

I can live with that.

[Grave_n_idle]

Why should I be tolerant to people who are intolerant?

Because it would make you equal intolerant. In a society you can't do good for all. Whatever you rule, some people will not like it.
Sometimes it needs time to find a consensus, sometimes you can find a solution that's serving all the people.

Only 40 years ago, it was unthinkable that a black guy could be an American president. Today it's possible. It means ethics & morals can change and sometimes they do change fast.

Today it's possible specifically because the majority prejudice was refuted.

[Samuraikoku]

Give me real arguments, and I'll take them seriously. If all you have is "God said" or "Gay is icky" or "it's a choice"... then no, I won't take you seriously.

Neither will I. Lunchtime now, be back later.

[Unhealthy2]

Oh, well, I suppose that I did 'run in defeat'. When you 'adults' start acting 'grown-up', I'll come back. You don't take me seriously because I'm so young? Well, that just shows that in reality, you are the close-minded ones.

Oh of course, the "You're just closed-minded!" defense. One problem is that you're a religious fundamentalist. Your entire worldview is based on rigid, unquestioning acceptance of a particular set of propositions. Playing the "closed-minded" card against us is more than a little hypocritical.

[Marlboro Kid]

Are you looking to find consensus with people who don't want to have consensus?

And are you prepared to drop some demands? Or do you just want it your way?

[Shikkago]

I'm gay and of course I want equal rights, but I don't think the govt should have anything to do with marriage in the first place.

[Moon Cows]

Give me real arguments, and I'll take them seriously. If all you have is "God said" or "Gay is icky" or "it's a choice"... then no, I won't take you seriously.

Neither will I.

Wait, what are your arguments? "Christian is bad", "God isn't real", "Constitution vaguely touches upon if at all", "14 = stupid". No, I can't take you seriously. .

[Marlboro Kid]

Because it would make you equal intolerant. In a society you can't do good for all. Whatever you rule, some people will not like it.
Sometimes it needs time to find a consensus, sometimes you can find a solution that's serving all the people.

Only 40 years ago, it was unthinkable that a black guy could be an American president. Today it's possible. It means ethics & morals can change and sometimes they do change fast.

Today it's possible specifically because the majority prejudice was refuted.

Indeed. Maybe in 2040 you'll have your first gay president.

[Salandriagado]

Wait, what are your arguments? "Christian is bad", "God isn't real", "Constitution vaguely touches upon if at all", "14 = stupid". No, I can't take you seriously. .

1: It is illegal to discriminate against people.
2: You are attempting to discriminate against people.
3: ∴ You are attempting to do something illegal.

Now, do you actually have an argument, or are you going to attempt to argue with my axioms?

[Grave_n_idle]

Neither will I.

Wait, what are your arguments?

Constitutional protection of rights. 14th Amendment Equal Protection and Due Process clauses. Loving v's Virginia.

Game. Set. Match.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Neither will I.

Wait, what are your arguments? "Christian is bad", "God isn't real", "Constitution vaguely touches upon if at all", "14 = stupid". No, I can't take you seriously. .

Whether or not God is real isn't important. God is irrelevant.

[Unhealthy2]

Wait, what are your arguments? "Christian is bad", "God isn't real", "Constitution vaguely touches upon if at all", "14 = stupid". No, I can't take you seriously. .

My argument:

P1. Gay marriage would give a lot of people happiness.

P2. There's no rational, definable way in which gay marriage would cause any sort of real harm to anyone at all.

P3. Everything else is irrelevant. God's opinion on the matter is irrelevant, just like everyone else's opinions. Any bizarre abstractions and other strange nonsense you bring up is irrelevant. Nothing else matters. Morality is all about maximizing the well-being of conscious creatures.

C. Allow gay marriages.

[Shikkago]

Because it would make you equal intolerant. In a society you can't do good for all. Whatever you rule, some people will not like it.
Sometimes it needs time to find a consensus, sometimes you can find a solution that's serving all the people.

Only 40 years ago, it was unthinkable that a black guy could be an American president. Today it's possible. It means ethics & morals can change and sometimes they do change fast.

Today it's possible specifically because the majority prejudice was refuted.

yeah, crowds lined up and threw stones at a five year old kid for going to kindergarten in a white school. The govt didn't back down and go "well, guess a lot of folks really dig segregation, let's keep it around til they change their minds. It's not like Negros are allowed to vote anyway."

[Grave_n_idle]

Today it's possible specifically because the majority prejudice was refuted.

Indeed. Maybe in 2040 you'll have your first gay president.

Given the statistics, I strongly suspect we've had 3 or 4 by now.

By 2040, maybe we'll have our first out President.

[Moon Cows]

Wait, what are your arguments?

Constitutional protection of rights. 14th Amendment Equal Protection and Due Process clauses. Loving v's Virginia.

Game. Set. Match.

First of all, you deleted half of my statement. Second of all, none of those say "GAEY RITEZZZ!111!!!1one!!!1"