Your stance on gay marriage

[Samuraikoku]

It's not about winning or losing. It would be wiser if you try to learn how other people think differently. Doesn't mean you have to share their idea's.

Against intolerance, one can only win.

[Grave_n_idle]

It's because of people like us than Argentina now has gay marriage. And mind you... I'm an attorney.

And mind you, I'm a 14 year old who just put up a better argument than many of you. Sorry if I 'lost'. .

You didn't put up any arguments. You stated a lot of opinions, and they all fell before the overpowering arguments for Constitutional rights.

[Marlboro Kid]

If a majority in a country bans gay marriage then that's the will of the people. It's doesn't matter if they are right or wrong.
Like I see it, politicians shouldn't control issues about morals & ethics, but the people should.

How difficult is it to manage a referendum?

The Constitution was designed, in large part, specifically to avoid that.

Avoid what?

A referendum or politicians pushing their ethic & moral values as the country values?

[Grave_n_idle]

I would certainly enjoy to see all of you defending your opinion against people against gay marriage. You gather here because it makes you feel like there are many of you, it makes you feel stronger. This is the internet, guys. You wouldn't stand a chance arguing this by yourself, any one of you, like I am right now. I feel your opinion is as worthless as you feel mine. I put up a fair fight, sorry that I could not answer all of you, but I don't have any of similar view coming to rescue me from a lost debate. So, now I give up, not because I feel defeated, but because standing alone is not as easy as it looks. Have fun debating with. . each other?

Or, perhaps you are giving up because your opinion is idiotic and wrong, and the majority of people are on the side of "for LGBT rights" because it is right.

Right. Opinion doesn't trump the Constitution. At least, not yet.

Now, if one day it does... well, that's going to be an interesting day.

[Samuraikoku]

Right. Opinion doesn't trump the Constitution. At least, not yet.

Now, if one day it does... well, that's going to be an interesting day.

Or a sad day.

[Grave_n_idle]

The Constitution was designed, in large part, specifically to avoid that.

Avoid what?

A referendum or politicians pushing their ethic & moral values as the country values?

Avoid 'the will of the people' determining the way in which law is observed and 'rights' assured.

[Marlboro Kid]

It's not about winning or losing. It would be wiser if you try to learn how other people think differently. Doesn't mean you have to share their idea's.

Against intolerance, one can only win.

You aren't tolerant either.

I accept MoonCows his point of view, doesn't mean I share it, but I accept his view. It's not that difficult, it's called empathy.

[Ceannairceach]

I know a few other gay Christians. Cool people.

Actually, they are lying when they define themselves as Christians. If you are a non-repenting sinner, you cannot preach to others the Word of God. It would be hypocritical. Homosexuals are not Christians, because they do not follow the Bible.

To paraphrase my local Episcopalian priest at Sunday before last's sermon:

All people are sinners, and not all people repent. Not even all Christians truly repent. "Original sin" does not mean we are born with a sin we cannot name, it means we all live with a sin that we cannot seem to shake. For homosexuals, it is homosexuality. They cannot shake it, they cannot get rid of it, despite what some say. It is a part of them. Some people cannot help but murder, as that is in their nature. Some cannot help but commit adultery, as it is in their nature. In the case of the latter two, they must be helped, for they are harming others. However, homosexuals, like you and I, are simply living in sin that they cannot shake. Why this, according to other brothers in Christ, should bar them from preaching the faith, I do not know, but this church shall not block its homosexual brethren from affirming their faith.

[Venaly]

wait... why are we debating with a 14 year old??? Where are all the adults?

and one more thing... Like a person in my fiance's criminal justice class said during a debate over this exact issue: "Gay marriage shouldn't be allowed cause it's.... gay..."

Thank you closed minded people for being so dumb... you provide so much amusement for those of us who would otherwise accept people no matter what

[Samuraikoku]

Avoid 'the will of the people' determining the way in which law is observed and 'rights' assured.

Tyranny by majority?

[Samuraikoku]

Against intolerance, one can only win.

You aren't tolerant either.

I accept MoonCow his point of view, doesn't mean I share it, but I accept his view. It's not that difficult, it's called empathy.

Why should I be tolerant to people who are intolerant?

[Ceannairceach]

Or, perhaps you are giving up because your opinion is idiotic and wrong, and the majority of people are on the side of "for LGBT rights" because it is right.

Right. Opinion doesn't trump the Constitution. At least, not yet.

Now, if one day it does... well, that's going to be an interesting day.

Smells like revolution, and... Mangoes?

[Grave_n_idle]

Right. Opinion doesn't trump the Constitution. At least, not yet.

Now, if one day it does... well, that's going to be an interesting day.

Or a sad day.

A very sad day. The one thing America really has going for it, is that it's central principle is "these things are not negotiable".

[Moon Cows]

I just have one last question, to Grave n idle for the most part, where does the Constitution say anything about marriage?

[Grave_n_idle]

wait... why are we debating with a 14 year old??? Where are all the adults?

On the other side.

[The Kangaroo Republic]

wait... why are we debating with a 14 year old??? Where are all the adults?

The age requirment to be allowed to go on the nationstates forums is 13. Get used to debating with 14 year olds, they're allowed to do so and you can't do much about it.

[Samuraikoku]

wait... why are we debating with a 14 year old??? Where are all the adults?

The age requirment to be allowed to go on the nationstates forums is 13. Get used to debating with 14 year olds, they're allowed to do so and you can't do much about it.

Except making them run in defeat.

[Moon Cows]

wait... why are we debating with a 14 year old??? Where are all the adults?

On the other side.

Why is it funny to be debating with a 14 year old? Am I not allowed to have an opinion. . ? I know, you're legally adults, but you don't act very mature.

[Marlboro Kid]

Avoid what?

A referendum or politicians pushing their ethic & moral values as the country values?

Avoid 'the will of the people' determining the way in which law is observed and 'rights' assured.

So your constitution is designed to make the people speechless? Or did I misinterpret you?

Referendum are rare here, I wish we had them more. You can’t fix everything with this, think about the NIMBY syndrome, but it can work for most ethical & moral problems.

[Grave_n_idle]

I just have one last question, to Grave n idle for the most part, where does the Constitution say anything about marriage?

14th Amendment - both Due Process and Equal Protection clauses.

See Loving v's Virginia.

[The Kangaroo Republic]

The age requirment to be allowed to go on the nationstates forums is 13. Get used to debating with 14 year olds, they're allowed to do so and you can't do much about it.

Except making them run in defeat.

A lot of them tend to do that. Unless they're geniuses who were always placed in one of those classes for "special" people, graduated from high school at the age of 13 and then went to university to study theoretical physics.

[Grave_n_idle]

On the other side.

Why is it funny to be debating with a 14 year old? Am I not allowed to have an opinion. . ? I know, you're legally adults, but you don't act very mature.

I think you missed the point of the 'joke'.

Maybe I'm just not funny.

*shrugs*

[Ceannairceach]

On the other side.

Why is it funny to be debating with a 14 year old? Am I not allowed to have an opinion. . ? I know, you're legally adults, but you don't act very mature.

Generally, fourteen year old's are expected to have idiotic opinions that don't make much sense. You fit this stereotype.

[Unhealthy2]

Morals, religion, opinion in general, cannot be debated with facts. That's why no one wins in these arguments.

I would not hold morals as "just opinion." As for religion, that's definitely not a matter of opinion. Religions are making definite claims about the nature of objective reality. "God exists." is not a mere opinion. It's a factual claim. It's a logical proposition. You are claiming that reality is such that a god exists.

[Grave_n_idle]

Avoid 'the will of the people' determining the way in which law is observed and 'rights' assured.

So your constitution is designed to make the people speechless? Or did I misinterpret you?

Referendum are rare here, I wish we had them more. You can’t fix everything with this, think about the NIMBY syndrome, but it can work for most ethical & moral problems.

The Constitution is designed specifically to avoid tyranny of the majority.

It does allow for an overwhelming majority to amend the Constitution, thus assuring that Democracy has some tempering influence, but it's deliberately designed in such a way that mere popularity is not enough to change the law.