NationStates

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.

The law disagrees; Marriage is an entirely secular institution.

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.

But Tsargrad is not a reallife nation, and this is an OOC forum.

But which religion ? Are christians, muslims, jews, hindus, Jains, sikhs, pastafarians and followers of the church of bodymodification (yes, that exists) all allowed to claim the word "marriage" for whatever ceremony they want ?

Apollonesia wrote:

Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments, Same sex marriage is never mentioned. However, if gays and their desires are identified as shameful, marriage should be included.

You see, now that interpretation isn't entirely accurate is it? In both Christianity (where it doesn't apply as, for Christians, Jesus fulfilled The Law) and in Judaism this phrase isn't as clearcut as you make it out to be. 'Abomination' in those times had a different definition from what it does now, simply meaning 'unclean'.

Further to this, Leviticus 18:22 should, like with everything in the Bible be considered in context. Verses 6 to 18 in Lev 18 are basically a long list of forms of incest which are forbidden (18:12, for example, forbids incest with an aunt on the mother's side of family. The next verse forbids with an aunt on the father's side). Verses 19-22 are different, however, dealing with more general acts of sexual 'deviance', such as sex with a menstruating woman (18:19) and adultery with a neighbour's wife.

Verse 21 forbids ritual child sacrifice and actually names a Pagan God (Molech) who children had been sacrificed to. Molech's followers kept, like most pagan deities, temple prostitutes. Considering Leviticus 18:22 in context one can safely assume it refers to some kind of forbidden act that Jews must distance themselves from.

Apollonesia wrote:

Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments.

So?

Mexico and its People wrote:Against it. Marriage is the union between one MAN and WOMAN.

According to what?
And before you say "according to god" the bible itself makes that a lie.

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.

You believe incorrectly.

I believe that marriage in present days is a package that has to be disentangled in its properties to further make sense.
The legal part in it is a contract between to people to form an organisation between them that allows to share workload and benefits between them and free up social resources, with a classical model of "provider" and "housekeeper". I do not see how this should be denied to people of same sex.
Religious views may differ, but that's their cup of tea. They may deny their blessings to same-sex-marriage, but that does not mean they have to have any word about legal status.

Apollonesia wrote:

Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments, Same sex marriage is never mentioned. However, if gays and their desires are identified as shameful, marriage should be included.

So should we condem everything else as condemned (or do what is commanded) by the Old Testatment or the third book of the Torah (Which Leviticus is)?

Because if so you would be labelled a fundamentalist nutjob and potentially dangerous.

Or just cherry pick those that suit our personal prejudices?

Because if so you would be a hypocrite.

It's not a teaching of Christ....to condemn anyone....rather forgive them and not to judge

Grave_n_idle wrote:

Haktiva wrote:i don't care
but if i was forced to voice my opinion, it's really up to the individual religious leader to marry them

So Atheists can't marry?

Stop trolling. Please.

Totalitarianople wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
So Atheists can't marry?

Stop trolling. Please.

Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.

Grave_n_idle wrote:

Totalitarianople wrote:
Stop trolling. Please.

Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.

You are trolling as we speak. The fact that you are attempting to start an argument and that I am getting sucked into it makes you a troll, be it intentional or not.

Totalitarianople wrote:You are trolling as we speak. The fact that you are attempting to start an argument and that I am getting sucked into it makes you a troll, be it intentional or not.

You know you can choose NOT to engage in a (supposed, because he/she told you why he/she is not trolling) argument, right? Or are you going to accuse me of trolling you as well?

The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.

Shinjitai wrote:Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.

Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

Totalitarianople wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.

You are trolling as we speak.

Enough of the bullshit. If you're convinced it's trolling, take it to Moderation.

I'd be interested to see the precedent that establishes challenging a statement as trolling.

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

I don't want my marriage ended, thanks.

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

Isn't it easier - and getting out of morals, even - to just have both homosexual and heterosexual marriages?

Samuraikoku wrote:

Shinjitai wrote:Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.

Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

Why can religion not get out of marriages and replace them with weddings ?

Yes, gays are annoying.

But if they want to get married, that's their loss thing.

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

Give us good reasons why this would be better than ending ALL civil unions and replacing them ALL with marriages.

Shinjitai wrote:

Samuraikoku wrote:
Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage

What they mean is that on the general forum we discuss real life nations and politics.
Posts about fictional nations like Shinjitai can be done on the roleplaying - or IC - boards

The Alma Mater wrote:

Shinjitai wrote:Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage

What they mean is that on the general forum we discuss real life nations and politics.
Posts about your nation can be done on the roleplaying - or IC - boards

Oops. Im new to this. Sorry. Well i think they should just have civil partnerships

Shinjitai wrote:Oops. Im new to this. Sorry. Well i think they should just have civil partnerships

Why? Where's the equality?