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Your stance on gay marriage

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Enadail
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Postby Enadail » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:25 am

Marlboro Kid wrote:
Arivali wrote:

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?


Because your country is not a Eclectic Solitary Pagan country but probably one with deep roots in Christianity.

Religion or the lack of any can be part of the culture of your country. Like it or not and get over it.


Deep roots in religion have NOTHING to do with law. Firstly, we point out that religion back in "the way" (if we're talking about the founding of the US) was significantly different then it was today. It was not nearly so conservative in the sense that as a majority of people were religious, you didn't talk about it in the same way. Second, back then being non-religious got you killed. Lastly, the people who founded the US were partially Christian, partially Deist, and partially "don't care".

And its all irrelevant because they thought carefully about a number of very important documents and decided never once to mention anything religious, and went out of their way in the early years of the country to say the country is not based on religion.

And of course... being deeply rooted in Christianity does not give anyone the right to press their religion on another, nor does it mean America is culturally Christian. In fact, I'm thinking about it, and besides chunks of the country making a big deal about going to Church, I can't really think of anything that is culturally Christian these days (even the holidays are more about making money then religion). As a non-Christian, I don't find it in culture at all.

South Waxhaw wrote:
Arivali wrote:

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

Not merely Christian... Have fun finding a major world religion where even 10% are homosexual


Uh... you know people are homosexual regardless of religion, right? Its not like Christians are less likely to be gay.

Besides, while the Abrahamic religions might oppose homosexuality (debatably), most eastern religions simply don't care. Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism to name a few.

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Shikkago
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Postby Shikkago » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:26 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Don't people go to a pool or something in summer instead of trolling in a forum? :p


Apparently not.


cuz we're nerds,we don't like sunlight and such. There's no computers there.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:26 am

Shikkago wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Apparently not.


cuz we're nerds,we don't like sunlight and such. There's no computers there.


Yeah, who am I kidding? That was hypocritical of me. :p

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Xarem
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Postby Xarem » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Shikkago wrote:
cuz we're nerds,we don't like sunlight and such. There's no computers there.


Yeah, who am I kidding? That was hypocritical of me. :p

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The USOT
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Postby The USOT » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:36 am

South Waxhaw wrote:
Arivali wrote:

Yeah... a CHRISTIAN tradition. Why can't you accept that those of us of other faiths don't want to be forced to follow YOUR god's law. You are allowed to believe it's a sin. And if you feel that way, don't marry someone of your own gender.

As previously stated, I'm an Eclectic Solitary Pagan. I don't believe it is a sin. What gives you the right to shove your beliefs down my throat?

Not merely Christian... Have fun finding a major world religion where even 10% are homosexual

Ever heard of Catholocism? :p
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Shikkago
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Postby Shikkago » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:41 am

BTW, if your argument is that the U.S. is a "christian nation" or whatever, aside from that being beside the point in an international forum, it's covered:

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Meaning no laws can be made that establish a national religion. Case closed.
Last edited by Shikkago on Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Arivali
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Postby Arivali » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:45 am

Moon Cows wrote:I just have one last question, to Grave n idle for the most part, where does the Constitution say anything about marriage?


It says in the preamble that all men are created equal. Any logical person should conclude then that all people should be treated equally under the law.

It also says that all jurisdiction not specifically granted to the national government is automatically granted to the states, such as marriage. Also, all states are under legal obligation to recognize any legal document issued by another state in good faith. This includes things like driver's licenses and marriage certificates.

I learned that in 7th grade Civics class. I was 14 then. Either you haven't learned it yet, or weren't paying attention. My guess is the latter....

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Soheran
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Postby Soheran » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:50 am

Arivali wrote:It says in the preamble that all men are created equal.


No, it doesn't.

Any logical person should conclude then that all people should be treated equally under the law.


We should conclude this without any legal document telling us so. But the US Constitution does so in the Fourteenth Amendment, not the preamble.

It also says that all jurisdiction not specifically granted to the national government is automatically granted to the states, such as marriage. Also, all states are under legal obligation to recognize any legal document issued by another state in good faith. This includes things like driver's licenses and marriage certificates.


Actually, states have historically had the power to refuse to recognize out-of-state marriages that they deemed contrary to their public policy. This is how most US states treat same-sex marriages. The Full Faith and Credit Clause only applies really stringently to court judgments, like adoption orders.

I learned that in 7th grade Civics class.


Maybe you should have learned more about it later.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:52 am

Shikkago wrote:BTW, if your argument is that the U.S. is a "christian nation" or whatever, aside from that being beside the point in an international forum, it's covered:

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Meaning no laws can be made that establish a national religion. Case closed.


Oh, but you cannot deny the strong influence Christianity has. De facto outweighs de jure.

(Notice the irony)

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-St George
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Postby -St George » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:53 am

Spanionte wrote:yes i believe in God and next time capitalize the G in God.

Please provide a quote from scripture telling followers and non-followers to capitalize the g, please.
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Unhealthy2
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Postby Unhealthy2 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:54 am

-St George wrote:Please provide a quote from scripture telling followers and non-followers to capitalize the g, please.


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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:02 pm

-St George wrote:
Spanionte wrote:yes i believe in God and next time capitalize the G in God.

Please provide a quote from scripture telling followers and non-followers to capitalize the g, please.


I doubt he could, he got banned for three days.

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-St George
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Postby -St George » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:07 pm

Moon Cows wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Jeez kid, calm down. The people here are very accepting. Nobody cares that you're gay.


WOAH, really?! You're accepting?!?!

No, you are not. This community seriously lacks the ability to accept those of different ideals than their own. Christians. Republicans. I'm against gay marriage, as I believe it's both immoral and a sin. You people can't accept that.

Are you against gay marriage because you believe homosexuality is a sin? Or because it apparrently takes away from the sanctity of marriage?
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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:08 pm

-St George wrote:
Moon Cows wrote:
WOAH, really?! You're accepting?!?!

No, you are not. This community seriously lacks the ability to accept those of different ideals than their own. Christians. Republicans. I'm against gay marriage, as I believe it's both immoral and a sin. You people can't accept that.

Are you against gay marriage because you believe homosexuality is a sin? Or because it apparrently takes away from the sanctity of marriage?


That one ran away, not before ranting on how he was outnumbered and how immature we were for dissing him for having stupid arguments because he was 14 years old.

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Arivali
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Postby Arivali » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:13 pm

Shikkago wrote: :blink:
umm... yea... we're like 5% of the population. everywhere. in the world. :palm: That has nothing to do with religion.

Interestingly, we're still 5% even in religious groups that forbid us from existing.

Although I guess 100% of the "ex-gays" are gay, if that counts as a religious sect. :p


Forgive me... It's an archaic view in both Christian and Jewish religions. Sorry, didn't mean to forget the Jews. Regarding Islam, I'm not entirely sure where they stand. I know some Islamic countries allow Polygamy.

And since when do numbers mean anything? So because we're a minority we don't matter?

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Enadail
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Postby Enadail » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:13 pm

Moon Cows wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Jeez kid, calm down. The people here are very accepting. Nobody cares that you're gay.


WOAH, really?! You're accepting?!?!

No, you are not. This community seriously lacks the ability to accept those of different ideals than their own. Christians. Republicans. I'm against gay marriage, as I believe it's both immoral and a sin. You people can't accept that.


I'd say this community lacks the ability to accept different ideals for no reason. Which I hope everyone does. We can accept that you are against it, we see no reason to take the same side. The Christians and Republicans here usually don't have much in the way of arguments, just bold statements. Why should I care?

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Marlboro Kid
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Postby Marlboro Kid » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:17 pm

Shikkago wrote:BTW, if your argument is that the U.S. is a "christian nation" or whatever, aside from that being beside the point in an international forum, it's covered:

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Meaning no laws can be made that establish a national religion. Case closed.


Your president, any president, is ending many of his speeches with "God bless America". Ever heard him say "Allah bless America?"

Ever had an atheist president? Would an atheist have a chance today?

Christianity is very important in your country, religion is part of a culture at such it does influence your laws. That’s the way it is.
Last edited by Marlboro Kid on Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arivali
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Postby Arivali » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:19 pm

The USOT wrote:Ever heard of Catholocism? :p


Ah, yes, that reminds me. The Catholic church now allows openly gay priests. If it was such a sin, why would they allow this?

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Franco-Philia
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Postby Franco-Philia » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:19 pm

Marlboro Kid wrote:
Shikkago wrote:BTW, if your argument is that the U.S. is a "christian nation" or whatever, aside from that being beside the point in an international forum, it's covered:

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Meaning no laws can be made that establish a national religion. Case closed.


Your president, any president is ending many of his speeches with "God bless America". Ever heard him say "Allah bless America?"

Ever had an atheist president? Would an atheist have a chance today?

Christianity is very important in your country, religion is part of a culture at such it does influence your laws. That’s the way it is.


I actually agree. But what I would add is that there are many instances in our law where the legal side has won out despite Christian belief. Abortion is the prime example. There are many states in America where polls show that the majority (sometimes quite a large majority) do not support on-demand abortion. Attempts to knock it down have failed in spite of religious belief. So there are instances where legality trumps religion and we obey the first ammendment. But you are right, Christianity influences our legal system whether or not we wish it to.

As a side note...you take one day off and the damn thread EXPLODES.

edit: spell
Last edited by Franco-Philia on Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Franco-Philia
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Postby Franco-Philia » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:20 pm

Arivali wrote:
The USOT wrote:Ever heard of Catholocism? :p


Ah, yes, that reminds me. The Catholic church now allows openly gay priests. If it was such a sin, why would they allow this?


Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell on the interwebs sometimes...
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Intangelon
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Postby Intangelon » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:
-St George wrote:Are you against gay marriage because you believe homosexuality is a sin? Or because it apparrently takes away from the sanctity of marriage?


That one ran away, not before ranting on how he was outnumbered and how immature we were for dissing him for having stupid arguments because he was 14 years old.

And if he doesn't learn now, and in this laughably safe environment that stupid arguments will be shredded without remorse, he never will, and reality will crush him.
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Unhealthy2
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Postby Unhealthy2 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:24 pm

Marlboro Kid wrote:Your president, any president, is ending many of his speeches with "God bless America". Ever heard him say "Allah bless America?"


Only in order to pander to the far Christian right.

Ever had an atheist president? Would an atheist have a chance today?


I'm positive we've had atheist presidents. We just haven't had any that would openly admit it.

Christianity is very important in your country, religion is part of a culture at such it does influence your laws. That’s the way it is.


But it's not the way it should be. All of our "Christian" laws aren't really effective in carrying out Christianity anyway. They don't make the country more religious. All they do is pander to a highly ignorant segment of the country that likes to pay lip-service to Jesus without trying to emulate him in any way.
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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:25 pm

Intangelon wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
That one ran away, not before ranting on how he was outnumbered and how immature we were for dissing him for having stupid arguments because he was 14 years old.

And if he doesn't learn now, and in this laughably safe environment that stupid arguments will be shredded without remorse, he never will, and reality will crush him.


He'll escape before being crushed.

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Enadail
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Postby Enadail » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:26 pm

Marlboro Kid wrote:
Shikkago wrote:BTW, if your argument is that the U.S. is a "christian nation" or whatever, aside from that being beside the point in an international forum, it's covered:

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Meaning no laws can be made that establish a national religion. Case closed.


Your president, any president, is ending many of his speeches with "God bless America". Ever heard him say "Allah bless America?"

Ever had an atheist president? Would an atheist have a chance today?

Christianity is very important in your country, religion is part of a culture at such it does influence your laws. That’s the way it is.


It may have an influence on laws, but that does not make laws based on religion legal. I'm getting very confused... are you saying that influence along is justification enough? That its better to work for the status quo and get to whats right then simply to get to whats right?

Even if 90% of Americans opposed same-sex marriages, that wouldn't make it any more right to inch forward. And in fact, its much better to just fight for the high end goal, as in the end, you will have to work in steps through compromise, when you're at the table. Start at a strong position, then switch to a weaker one, and the opposition will just try to push it down further.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:28 pm

Venaly wrote:>.< I resent that!!! I live in West Virginia and have for most of my life!!! And btw, more people are open-minded in West Virginia than they are in Maryland, from my experience, since I live in The Eastern Panhandle and go to college in the southern most part of West Virginia. Also in regards to racism...remember that WV broke away from Virginia because they were against racism... And it's illegal to marry your cousin here, fyi oh and to correct you... maryland does allow people to marry their cousins :rofl: http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states, " which is as close as one can get to West Virginia without marrying your cousin" i think you're as close to WV as a person can get while marrying your cousin ;)

Ah, but in WV it's not just legal, it's mandatory. Every Marylander knows this. ;)
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