NationStates

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm**

Barringtonia wrote:You're right, I was multi-tasking and skimmed.

I think we all do that sometimes.

The nature of religion makes corruption very easy, if not necessary in order to preserve that religion in the face of so many contradictions. I get that this is a symptom of man rather than religion per se but then I could not envisage a rational, coherent, consistent religion anyway.

Perhaps, but there are precious few things that mankind creates that are without internal contradiction. I think religion is just following a pattern here.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:35 pm**

Good, when approached with a moderate mind and not overbearingly pushed on others around you.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:35 pm**

Depends on the religion. I believe one religion is "Good", several others have good tendencies but are misguided (focusing on the wrong god), and secular/humanism is evil.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:36 pm**

Religion is proven to teach good moral values, in most situations. However, when religion is put in the wrong hands, society, and the religion, can be corrupted. Take the Westburro Baptist Church for example. I do strongly dislike stereotypical Christians though. Gays, Jews, and sex aren't evil, you fools! :palm:

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:36 pm**

Draconian Races wrote:Depends on the religion. I believe one religion is "Good", several others have good tendencies but are misguided (focusing on the wrong god), and secular/humanism is evil.

Who are you to decide which god is more right?

And lol to the last part.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:37 pm**

This won't end well.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:37 pm**

Valtieres wrote:And I'll damn fucking well judge the Christians that live in my neck of the woods, because they're allderanged lunatics who sleep to the tune of Bill O'Reilly fapping over the "Liberal Agenda", or even sleep to the sight of Ann Coulter.

I believe that atheists who generalize about religious people, even in their local community, are a poison to the atheist community itself.

Please, do the community a favor and don't generalize about religious people.

If we want to teach them anything, we should show them that we don't have to generalize about them, and perhaps those religious folks who generalize about us will stop doing so.

Nightkill the Emperor wrote:This won't end well.

No, no it won't.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm**

Unhealthy2 wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:Intellectually comfortable, sure. I think Plato overthinks it, though - I don't think it's necessary to invent a lie and project it - I think people will fill a vacuum, themselves.

This actually makes me feel ill. It's dishonest, it's elitist, it's Machiavellian. What's GOOD about the noble lie? It's an affront to truth. It's an affront to human potential.

I don't think it is elitist, at least, not intrinsically.

Moreover, I don't think you can hold it's 'dishonesty' against it, since I believe people are willingly 'believing the lie'. Even inventing it.

What's good about it? The positive effects already mentioned. Is it an affront to truth? You know, I don't think 'truth' cares?

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm**

Norstal wrote:
Draconian Races wrote:Depends on the religion. I believe one religion is "Good", several others have good tendencies but are misguided (focusing on the wrong god), and secular/humanism is evil.

Who are you to decide which god is more right?

And lol to the last part.

Who is anyone to decide?

Esoterias wrote:Religion is proven to teach good moral values, in most situations. However, when religion is put in the wrong hands, society, and the religion, can be corrupted. Take the Westburro Baptist Church for example. I do strongly dislike stereotypical Christians though. Gays, Jews, and sex aren't evil, you fools!

Jews arent, but it would be nice if theyd see their Savior has come..

Yay for Messianic Jews!!

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm**

Nightkill the Emperor wrote:This won't end well.

No, it won't. *sigh*

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm**

Draconian Races wrote:Depends on the religion. I believe one religion is "Good", several others have good tendencies but are misguided (focusing on the wrong god), and secular/humanism is evil.

I sacrifice small children to the God of the State every morning. Then I go and try to figure out ways to oppress the Christian majority. At noon I have aborted children for lunch, and then I work at freeing obviously guilty criminals through legal technicalities 'til five. I usually wind down afterwords with an orgy and a glass of priest's blood before bed.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:39 pm**

I think that religion isn't always bad (that's too much of a blanket statement) but I do think it has a tendency to make bad situations a lot worse. Even when religion tries to do good it usually comes with some kind of shitty baggage...

The Catholic Church sends millions in aid to Africa (all the while helping to make the situation worse by spreading the lie that condoms are not even part of the solution).

The Baha'i faith tries to teach love and acceptance for all people (well except for those fags and dykes, which according to Baha'i teaching are immoral).

The Nation of Islam gets African-American men off drugs in prison (while being one of the most vehemently antisemitic organizations alive).

The Sikh faith is completely peaceful and loving (well except for that whole debacle with Indira Ghandi and often violent secessionist ideas).

The varying Hindu schools are striving for enlightenment and union with the divine (we'll just forget the disgusting history of the caste system and focus on those beautiful passages in Eat, Pray, Love and The Life of Pi).

No school of Buddhism has ever been genocidal or cruel! (Well, except for Zen imperialists in Japan like the master praised endlessly in The Three Pillars of Zen who was actually a racist maniac or the Sri Lankan Sinhalese racist monks who want to disenfranchise and kill Tamils).

Judaism would never opress because of the horrors they have seen (Haredi...cough, cough).

Islam would...well, nevermind.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:39 pm**

Esoterias wrote:Religion is proven to teach good moral values, in most situations. However, when religion is put in the wrong hands, society, and the religion, can be corrupted. Take the Westburro Baptist Church for example. I do strongly dislike stereotypical Christians though. Gays, Jews, and sex aren't evil, you fools!

Exactly what I was saying above- that if approached with a moderate mind, it can be a great thing. But I think something every religious person forgets (and I think this is true of all faiths) is that they aren't the ones in any position to make judgements on the actions or opinions of anyone else (as in the homophobia you mention). If you are really that religious, then you ought to know that is God's domain.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:39 pm**

Draconian Races wrote:
Norstal wrote:Who are you to decide which god is more right?

And lol to the last part.

Who is anyone to decide?

Oh so there are no wrong gods and secular/humanism isn't evil. You just contradicted yourself. Thanks for playing.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:40 pm**

Norstal wrote:
Draconian Races wrote:
Who is anyone to decide?

Oh so there are no wrong gods and secular/humanism isn't evil. You just contradicted yourself. Thanks for playing.

No, there are. But you cant prove that mine isnt as right as I believe.

And secular/humanism is. It denies a greater power in favor of mans.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:40 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Apostledom of chaos wrote:
such as?

Social cohesion. Inspiration, artistic and cultural. Perpetuation of knowledge. Preservation of order. Not to mention the psychological benefits of giving people an alternate reality to enable them to tolerate shitty treatment in THIS one, giving an excuse for the crappy stuff that happens and the evil people do, allowing people to overcome fear of death, etc.

Nationalism achieves all these as well, so does racism and many other isms.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:40 pm**

Rhodmhire wrote:
Valtieres wrote:IAnd I'll damn fucking well judge the Christians that live in my neck of the woods, because they're allderanged lunatics who sleep to the tune of Bill O'Reilly fapping over the "Liberal Agenda", or even sleep to the sight of Ann Coulter.

I believe that atheists who generalize about religious people, even in their local community, are a poison to the atheist community itself.

Please, do the community a favor and don't generalize about religious people.

If we want to teach them anything, we should show them that we don't have to generalize about them, and perhaps those religious folks who generalize about us will stop doing so.

Come to Birmingham, Mi. You'll love it. I guarantee. However, I see your point. As I outlined, I am tolerant of other religions, but Judeo-Christian streams of thought drive me bonkers, and it's hard to not want to beat the hell out of the bible thumpers.

Nightkill the Emperor wrote:This won't end well.

No, no it won't.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 pm**

Norstal wrote:Hold on, are you guys talking about organized religion or religion in general? Don't bash good religions like Zen Buddhism. There should be a clear distinction between the two.

I'm talking about any religion that requires someone to believe anything that probably isn't true. I don't want to ban any of them, and I don't go out of my way to confront people about it, unless it's in a public discussion forum like this one, and it's relevant to the discussion. However, I don't think it's a good thing, just because some believe that it might possibly lead people to do good things sometimes, and if anyone asks me, I'll tell them that I don't consider it a good thing.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 pm**

Conserative Morality wrote:
Draconian Races wrote:Depends on the religion. I believe one religion is "Good", several others have good tendencies but are misguided (focusing on the wrong god), and secular/humanism is evil.

I sacrifice small children to the God of the State every morning. Then I go and try to figure out ways to oppress the Christian majority. At noon I have aborted children for lunch, and then I work at freeing obviously guilty criminals through legal technicalities 'til five. I usually wind down afterwords with an orgy and a glass of priest's blood before bed.

Oh that reminds me, the Fountain of Virgin Blood you ordered has been shipped. Remember that it will only hold 5 gallons of blood, so you'll need to refill it when it runs out. It'll be there in 2 days. Happy hunting!

Sincerely,

Kaos Emporium.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:42 pm**

Franco-Philia wrote:The Sikh faith is completely peaceful and loving (well except for that whole debacle with Indira Ghandi and often violent secessionist ideas).

I thought Sikhs weren't all that opposed to war?

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:43 pm**

Norstal wrote:Oh that reminds me, the Fountain of Virgin Blood you ordered has been shipped. Remember that it will only hold 5 gallons of blood, so you'll need to refill it when it runs out. It'll be there in 2 days. Happy hunting!

Sincerely,

Kaos Emporium.

My credit cards are all maxed out, you mind if I pay you in Goat Hooves?

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:43 pm**

Draconian Races wrote:
No, there are. But you cant prove that mine isnt as right as I believe.

Derp what?

And secular/humanism is. It denies a greater power in favor of mans.

No, instead we must discriminate and hate everyone outside of our own clique.

Herpity derp.

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:43 pm**

RELIGION KILLS BABIES

Posted: **Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:44 pm**

Draconian Races wrote:And secular/humanism is. It denies a greater power in favor of mans.

No. Secular humanists, which I am not, do not hold man to be the most powerful thing in existence.

Unlike you, not everyone seems to think that reality needs a hierarchy of power with a boss on top. Atheists don't disbelieve in god so that they can put humans on the top. Atheists, in general, don't believe that there IS a top. There's no void in the hierarchy that needs to be filled.

NationStates

RELIGION! Good or Bad?