How would you calm down the town halll protesters

[Bluth Corporation]

Care to give us some reasons why besides Obama being born in Kenya, and being a communists?

It is this attitude, and the prejudice it implies, towards opponents of Obama that makes me hesitant to speak out in his support on the rare occasions when the guy's actually got it right.

I don't want to be seen as being on the same side as these people.

[Intangelon]

So after wading through as much of this thread as I care to, it's boiled down to "shouting is public discourse -- you all did it to Bush -- we're not being allowed to speak despite public awareness of the time and place of the meetings and requirements for conduct" versus "let's have a discussion about this in a rational manner".

This circle as ouroborosed itself many times over. It's grown very tiresome.

[Allbeama]

So after wading through as much of this thread as I care to, it's boiled down to "shouting is public discourse -- you all did it to Bush -- we're not being allowed to speak despite public awareness of the time and place of the meetings and requirements for conduct" versus "let's have a discussion about this in a rational manner".

This circle as ouroborosed itself many times over. It's grown very tiresome.

The thing is Bush did not respond to reason or angry shouting, so what was there as an option for dissenters?

[Intangelon]

Care to give us some reasons why besides Obama being born in Kenya, and being a communists?

It is this attitude, and the prejudice it implies, towards opponents of Obama that makes me hesitant to speak out in his support on the rare occasions when the guy's actually got it right.

I don't want to be seen as being on the same side as these people.

Yeah. God help you if the truth is less important than how you're perceived for telling it.

That's the problem overall here. When someone on my "side" goes too far, I call them on it.

[Sibirsky]

Right...
That's why I am in favor of Health care reform and a member of the NRA...

You're a centrist?

I think so...

According to the political compass thingy I'm pretty left-wing...

I don't agree with my political compass results either. It gets the general area right I guess.

[Sibirsky]

I'd say Listen you didn't set up an appointment and other people want peace so shut your trap and be civilized. That should shut them up

You have it all wrong.

If you want some less irate protestors... Tell the president and Congress and Democrat Party, and all their hired thugs to STOP LYING!

Right, because constantly spouting the fact that there are "death panels" in the reform bill when it has been consistently demonstrated there is no such provision for such a thing is totally honest. Physically challenging people who disagree with you is totally un-thuggish. Putting out a document instructing people how to harass and annoy your congressman and fake having a majority is totally honest.

Fake having a majority?

[Intangelon]

So after wading through as much of this thread as I care to, it's boiled down to "shouting is public discourse -- you all did it to Bush -- we're not being allowed to speak despite public awareness of the time and place of the meetings and requirements for conduct" versus "let's have a discussion about this in a rational manner".

This circle as ouroborosed itself many times over. It's grown very tiresome.

The thing is Bush did not respond to reason or angry shouting, so what was there as an option for dissenters?

Oh, Bush responded. He put them in "free speech zones" far enough away from any venue he spoke at to not be heard.

That's what I don't get. Congressmen are trying to have legitimate discussions about the bill. It's not happening because one side would rather not discuss anything. They'd rather shout.

[Sibirsky]

I understand that there are different levels of opposition, and that it is therefore unlikely that the vocal minority truly represents all of those who are opposed. Meanwhile, 52%? Statistically, that's basically dead-even.

Incorrect. If the 52% was representative of the whole population that is more than 12 million people AGAINST this bill than for it. Of course when they disagree with you, 12 million are nothing.

You are aware that any poll has a margin of error, right? When I say that such a number is statistically dead even, I'm pointing out the fact that, for most polls, 2% is well within the margin of error, which means that 52% is indistinguishable from 50%.

So it could aslo be 54%. Besides more accurate statistics show 53% against and 43% for with 10% undecided. The numbers are even worse than 12 million. The President is off base.

[Grave_n_idle]

Fake having a majority?

Yes. The handouts contain instructions on how to pre-establish your modus operandi, such that a small group of people disseminates through a crowd (to create an image of being well-represented throughout the population, and so that they can't be easily avoided when interacting with the crowd), for example - and to try to gain seats (or standing room) near the front (to establish a position to be best able to harras the speaker, and to be unavoidably seen by the rest of the crowd).

[Allbeama]

So after wading through as much of this thread as I care to, it's boiled down to "shouting is public discourse -- you all did it to Bush -- we're not being allowed to speak despite public awareness of the time and place of the meetings and requirements for conduct" versus "let's have a discussion about this in a rational manner".

This circle as ouroborosed itself many times over. It's grown very tiresome.

The thing is Bush did not respond to reason or angry shouting, so what was there as an option for dissenters?

Oh, Bush responded. He put them in "free speech zones" far enough away from any venue he spoke at to not be heard.

That's what I don't get. Congressmen are trying to have legitimate discussions about the bill. It's not happening because one side would rather not discuss anything. They'd rather shout.

Its hard for me to watch the news without getting angry that a time has come when we can move forward rationally and it looks like just another time when the status quo forces rally and take this opportunity for positive change away.

[Grave_n_idle]

Care to give us some reasons why besides Obama being born in Kenya, and being a communists?

It is this attitude, and the prejudice it implies, towards opponents of Obama that makes me hesitant to speak out in his support on the rare occasions when the guy's actually got it right.

I don't want to be seen as being on the same side as these people.

Ah, the same defence that had 'but-I'm-not-a-racist' people donning sheets to hang negroes.

It's not that they were racist - it's more that they didn't want to be seen identifying with the people on the other side.

[Grave_n_idle]

So it could aslo be 54%.

Yes. If your margin of error is 3% (not unusual), then 49% and 55% are effectively the same number - a margin of error around 52%.

Besides more accurate statistics show 53% against and 43% for with 10% undecided. The numbers are even worse than 12 million. The President is off base.

Which are these 'more accurate' statistics?

[Sibirsky]

So after wading through as much of this thread as I care to, it's boiled down to "shouting is public discourse -- you all did it to Bush -- we're not being allowed to speak despite public awareness of the time and place of the meetings and requirements for conduct" versus "let's have a discussion about this in a rational manner".

This circle as ouroborosed itself many times over. It's grown very tiresome.

The thing is Bush did not respond to reason or angry shouting, so what was there as an option for dissenters?

Oh, Bush responded. He put them in "free speech zones" far enough away from any venue he spoke at to not be heard.

That's what I don't get. Congressmen are trying to have legitimate discussions about the bill. It's not happening because one side would rather not discuss anything. They'd rather shout.

By having opponents denied entry?

[The Great-Finland]

put simply: police goes and takes them away, then tell them to get someone who actually does politics for living to think and tell you'r problem to the goverment and if they come back again, take them away for even longer time



another option: execute them in puplic

[Sibirsky]

Fake having a majority?

Yes. The handouts contain instructions on how to pre-establish your modus operandi, such that a small group of people disseminates through a crowd (to create an image of being well-represented throughout the population, and so that they can't be easily avoided when interacting with the crowd), for example - and to try to gain seats (or standing room) near the front (to establish a position to be best able to harras the speaker, and to be unavoidably seen by the rest of the crowd).

Poll numbers show 53% against and 43% for the bill.

[Sibirsky]

So it could aslo be 54%.

Yes. If your margin of error is 3% (not unusual), then 49% and 55% are effectively the same number - a margin of error around 52%.

Besides more accurate statistics show 53% against and 43% for with 10% undecided. The numbers are even worse than 12 million. The President is off base.

Which are these 'more accurate' statistics?

Links all over this thread. To be honest, it's 3 am and I'm too lazy to look. They're there though. A few pages back. Maybe more, while I was en route from work to home it was quite a heated debate with pages tacked on.

[Northern Franktopia]

the way to calm down the shouters? Pipe into the room large volumes of vaporized marijuana and show a DVD of the Beatles' "Yellow Submarine." Don't tell me I'm the first to think of this!

[Delator]

From what I have seen, most of the people disrupting these town halls are old and white.

It couldn't possibly be that their anger stems from fear...fear that a black president will take steps to ensure that they are treated as badly as they themselves treated minorities in the past.

That this fear somehow manifests itself as opposition to a health care bill matters little...the topic at hand does not matter to these people, only their own fear.

They think that they're going to get it just as bad as they dished it out years ago. Such pettiness does not speak well of them, their past actions, or their assumptions about others.

Quite frankly, I'm glad they're scared...it will be all the more amusing when their fears prove unfounded.

[Treznor]

Care to give us some reasons why besides Obama being born in Kenya, and being a communists?

It is this attitude, and the prejudice it implies, towards opponents of Obama that makes me hesitant to speak out in his support on the rare occasions when the guy's actually got it right.

I don't want to be seen as being on the same side as these people.

Honestly? We're fine with that. Keep up the good work.

[RightWingChristians]

To shoot the liberals complaining about Town Hall protests ofcourse.

[Non Aligned States]

*Snip*[/img]

To shoot the liberals complaining about Town Hall protests ofcourse.

Weapons choice. Check. Advocation of murder of political opposites. Check. Silencing of reason with gratuitous violence. Check.

Hello again Kimchi.

[Tiesabre]

From what I have seen, most of the people disrupting these town halls are old and white.

It couldn't possibly be that their anger stems from fear...fear that a black president will take steps to ensure that they are treated as badly as they themselves treated minorities in the past.

That this fear somehow manifests itself as opposition to a health care bill matters little...the topic at hand does not matter to these people, only their own fear.

They think that they're going to get it just as bad as they dished it out years ago. Such pettiness does not speak well of them, their past actions, or their assumptions about others.

Quite frankly, I'm glad they're scared...it will be all the more amusing when their fears prove unfounded.

I've been re-framing from saying it myself, but I'm glad someone did.

[Wilconson]

Tanks

[RightWingChristians]

*Snip*[/img]

To shoot the liberals complaining about Town Hall protests ofcourse.

Weapons choice. Check. Advocation of murder of political opposites. Check. Silencing of reason with gratuitous violence. Check.

Hello again Kimchi.

Who?

[Bottle]

From what I have seen, most of the people disrupting these town halls are old and white.

It couldn't possibly be that their anger stems from fear...fear that a black president will take steps to ensure that they are treated as badly as they themselves treated minorities in the past.

That this fear somehow manifests itself as opposition to a health care bill matters little...the topic at hand does not matter to these people, only their own fear.

They think that they're going to get it just as bad as they dished it out years ago. Such pettiness does not speak well of them, their past actions, or their assumptions about others.

Quite frankly, I'm glad they're scared...it will be all the more amusing when their fears prove unfounded.

All true.

And you know what?

I still want those assholes to have better health care.

I look at the screaming, spittle-flecked protesters who demand that the government keep its hands off their Medicare, and honestly the first thing I think is, "I'm glad they've at least got Medicare."

I see the people holding signs that advocate the murder of the president and any who support health care reform, and I think, "I hope these reforms pass so that those people don't have to choose between their child's health care and their rent payments."

I see all the fear and hate bubbling up, and I see it coming from the mouths of lower-class and middle-class people, and all my anger is aimed at the rich lying sons of bitches who have duped people into believing that this fight is about anything other than protecting the pocket linings of the rich sons of bitches who profit from the private insurance companies.