On transubstantation.

[BunnySaurus Bugsii]

This morning my mother and I went to early mass. On the rare ocassion that I go to church, I tend to let my mind wander off. The voices around me become a drone and I just mechanically rise and sit due to habit. While in this routine, it was 7 hrs, I was still sleepy, I began to drowsily think about transubstantation.

*snip*

My question to you all is, regardless of creed, do you think Transubstantation occurs? Why do you believe this? Why not?

No. Because it is stupid, it violates the law of Mass-Energy Conservation, it violates laws of Causality, it violates the law of Entropy, and it's stupid.

Stop going to Church. Tell your family, politely, no thanks.

Or wear an Ipod through the whole damn stupid charade, like you would while travelling on public transport.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I suspect that the Catholic Church carried the wrong message from that story and transubstantiation is the result of that misinformation. I think it was the group meal Jesus was referring to. Friends eating and drinking together, sharing a meal and sharing eachother's company. I think that is how we were supposed to honor Jesus. Jesus spent a lot of time eating and drinking with friends in the Bible. He appreciated a good party as much as the anyone could.

It seems odd to me that something so simple and beautiful got missed and in it's place we got crackers and grape juice transforming into flesh and blood inside us. It's kind of silly.

Good point LG, but come now you make it sound so bad, "crackers and grape juice" you mean unleavened bread (k not exciting) but FERMENTED grape juice.

Yeah, but they get really upset when you ask for seconds.

[Blouman Empire]

Yeah, but they get really upset when you ask for seconds.

It's why I became a special minister.

I get about half a glass of wine.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nanatsu, there are plenty of people who believe that Obama is a Muslim terrorist from Kenya masquerading as an American. Another example, young Earthers and those who refuse to accept evolution in the face of all evidence.

It seems as if you are saying that just because a lot of people believe in it, you can't say that its bullshit. If that is your argument, I don't think it really holds up.

Seriously now, they are saying that the bread and wine stay the same in all material terms, yet somehow also transform to become the body and blood of Christ. It makes about as much sense as someone buying a Skoda because they believe that somehow, on a spiritual level, its a Lamborghini. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

DI, honey, my argument holds, on the subject of religion, because I respect what others believe in as much as it doesn't interfere with my life. I don't need to validate my beliefs and try to make them tople yours. It is not necessary.

[RightWingChristians]

I believed it to be Flesh and Blood. But as of this Morning, I reverted to Islam so I no longer do.

So many unanswered questions.. So many things I didn't truly understand. I thought that Monasticism is the only way I could figure it all out. I have found another path though.

Getting off topic though.

[Nordfire]

I am a Catholic, yes, although to be honest it is sort of hard to tell whether or not it actually happens or not, mystery i guess?

Well it clearly fucking doesn't, you utter twat.

[Der Teutoniker]

Well it's obv a load of fucking bullshit really isn't it? I mean fucking come on.

I usually try to sound more tolerant, when I state my opinions on the matter myself.

But come on!

I understand the mysticism involved in medieval Europe, and that the Catholic Church sucked every ounce of control over the population that it could get, but at this point, the idea of Transubstantiation is ridiculous. It's a freakin' wafer, and some booze, I understand, respect, and practice the representative tradition of Communion, for me it's a very spiritual, and thoughtful time, but no, I'm not eating Jesus, it's called a freakin' metaphor, people!

/rant.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Nanatsu, there are plenty of people who believe that Obama is a Muslim terrorist from Kenya masquerading as an American. Another example, young Earthers and those who refuse to accept evolution in the face of all evidence.

It seems as if you are saying that just because a lot of people believe in it, you can't say that its bullshit. If that is your argument, I don't think it really holds up.

Seriously now, they are saying that the bread and wine stay the same in all material terms, yet somehow also transform to become the body and blood of Christ. It makes about as much sense as someone buying a Skoda because they believe that somehow, on a spiritual level, its a Lamborghini. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

DI, honey, my argument holds, on the subject of religion, because I respect what others believe in as much as it doesn't interfere with my life. I don't need to validate my beliefs and try to make them tople yours. It is not necessary.

Fair enough, I guess. But the fact that you don't wish to call bullshit doesn't mean it ain't bullshit

[Inchland]

I am a Catholic, yes, although to be honest it is sort of hard to tell whether or not it actually happens or not, mystery i guess?

Well it clearly fucking doesn't, you utter twat.

Are you trying to start something?, do you have any respect for anyone else at all? i am not the "utter twat" in this situation i think.....

[Warhaven]

I believe it does indeed become the flesh and blood of christ, while still looking, smelling, and tasting like crackers and wine. Some can't believe it, their incapable of such a thing. That's fine, let them believe what they will, or not believe what they will. It's not like I'm their keeper. After all, the inexplicable happens on a daily basis, often when cameras aren't focused or availible, when recorders of any kind aren't availible, or fully functional somehow.

We don't know everything. Infact, according to a webpage I read at Space.com once but doubt I can ever find again, Scientists estimate we know only 1% of everything there is to know. So with that 99% unknown, how can I possibly say its impossible, when one thousand years ago, today's world was impossible? The fact that the potential was there is immaterial. It is the missing knowledge itself. How can I say anything's impossible, when one thousand years from now, it just might be possible?

[Blouman Empire]

I am a Catholic, yes, although to be honest it is sort of hard to tell whether or not it actually happens or not, mystery i guess?

Well it clearly fucking doesn't, you utter twat.

Are you trying to start something?, do you have any respect for anyone else at all? i am not the "utter twat" in this situation i think.....

I'd ignore it he is going for the delete.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Yeah, but they get really upset when you ask for seconds.

It's why I became a special minister.

I get about half a glass of wine.

[Der Teutoniker]

I am a Catholic, yes, although to be honest it is sort of hard to tell whether or not it actually happens or not, mystery i guess?

Well it clearly fucking doesn't, you utter twat.

I'd like to strongly advise you to edit that, and not flame people. Adn you are stepping well outside mere "flaming" here, I think.

Or leave your post for a mod to see, 'experience is the best teacher' and all that.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This morning my mother and I went to early mass. On the rare ocassion that I go to church, I tend to let my mind wander off. The voices around me become a drone and I just mechanically rise and sit due to habit. While in this routine, it was 7 hrs, I was still sleepy, I began to drowsily think about transubstantation.

*snip*

My question to you all is, regardless of creed, do you think Transubstantation occurs? Why do you believe this? Why not?

No. Because it is stupid, it violates the law of Mass-Energy Conservation, it violates laws of Causality, it violates the law of Entropy, and it's stupid.

Stop going to Church. Tell your family, politely, no thanks.

Or wear an Ipod through the whole damn stupid charade, like you would while travelling on public transport.

Bunny, Bunny, Bunny. I don't believe the eucharist turns, literally, into the blood and flesh of Jesus. I see symbolism in it, but I don't believe in it as something that actually happens.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nanatsu, there are plenty of people who believe that Obama is a Muslim terrorist from Kenya masquerading as an American. Another example, young Earthers and those who refuse to accept evolution in the face of all evidence.

It seems as if you are saying that just because a lot of people believe in it, you can't say that its bullshit. If that is your argument, I don't think it really holds up.

Seriously now, they are saying that the bread and wine stay the same in all material terms, yet somehow also transform to become the body and blood of Christ. It makes about as much sense as someone buying a Skoda because they believe that somehow, on a spiritual level, its a Lamborghini. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

DI, honey, my argument holds, on the subject of religion, because I respect what others believe in as much as it doesn't interfere with my life. I don't need to validate my beliefs and try to make them tople yours. It is not necessary.

Fair enough, I guess. But the fact that you don't wish to call bullshit doesn't mean it ain't bullshit

I just don't call it that.

[Daistallia 2104]

I suspect that the Catholic Church carried the wrong message from that story and transubstantiation is the result of that misinformation. I think it was the group meal Jesus was referring to. Friends eating and drinking together, sharing a meal and sharing eachother's company. I think that is how we were supposed to honor Jesus. Jesus spent a lot of time eating and drinking with friends in the Bible. He appreciated a good party as much as the anyone could.

It seems odd to me that something so simple and beautiful got missed and in it's place we got crackers and grape juice transforming into flesh and blood inside us. It's kind of silly.

Heh. Indeed. And a (possibly) interesting side note: according to some stories, the Japanese Tea Ceremony has it's roots in Communion. Supposedly Buddhists in China picked up the idea from the far-eastern Xians, and incorporated it...

[Inchland]

I'd ignore it he is going for the delete.

Very possibly..... theres no need to get angry at random people really....

[Blouman Empire]

Heh. Indeed. And a (possibly) interesting side note: according to some stories, the Japanese Tea Ceremony has it's roots in Communion. Supposedly Buddhists in China picked up the idea from the far-eastern Xians, and incorporated it...

No, no, no, no, Jesus went to Japan at the age of 12 and came back when he was 30, that is why there is no mention of the Bible between then and when he started his ministry.

He brought it back from Japan with him.

[Tiesabre]

The problem I see is people trying to apply scientific logic to a religious principle.

[Inchland]

Heh. Indeed. And a (possibly) interesting side note: according to some stories, the Japanese Tea Ceremony has it's roots in Communion. Supposedly Buddhists in China picked up the idea from the far-eastern Xians, and incorporated it...

No, no, no, no, Jesus went to Japan at the age of 12 and came back when he was 30, that is why there is no mention of the Bible between then and when he started his ministry.

He brought it back from Japan with him.

so thats where he went....

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The problem I see is people trying to apply scientific logic to a religious principle.

I agree. There's no possible way of applying scientific logic to some happenings.

[Daistallia 2104]

Are you trying to start something?, do you have any respect for anyone else at all? i am not the "utter twat" in this situation i think.....

I'd like to strongly advise you to edit that, and not flame people. Adn you are stepping well outside mere "flaming" here, I think.

Or leave your post for a mod to see, 'experience is the best teacher' and all that.

Just part of NNLDI's suicide by mod.

Expect a couple more puppet fires.

[BunnySaurus Bugsii]

I believe it does indeed become the flesh and blood of christ, while still looking, smelling, and tasting like crackers and wine.

You deny the evidence of your own senses, to believe what you want to believe.

...

[RightWingChristians]

The problem I see is people trying to apply scientific logic to a religious principle.

http://www.scienceislam.com/

It's all there, friend.

[Kry_has_Genital_Herpes]

Just part of NNLDI's suicide by mod.

Expect a couple more puppet fires.

Fuck you.