US/Obama Healthcare Plan Consolidated MEGA-THREAD

[United Dependencies]

What bill is being discussed now? If it something about subsidising or something similar to that then sure I'm all for that.

I'm discussing an imaginary universal healthcare bill. The one right now does 3 things: jack, shit, and insurance industry handouts.

See how incapable the politicians are of even coming up with a bill (or even keeping a consisten opinion). Do you really think they are going to ever come up with anything feasible?

[Treznor]

Just like whether or not I want to have medical insurance for my own self is properly entirely up to me: it's my body, my life, so I get to decide what risks I'm willing to take with it.

Unless you come down with an infectious disease, which, being an infectious disease, you are more likely to get than any other and thus threaten other people's health, bodies, and lives. Get health liability insurance and stop being a dick.

Any smart person who gets a infectious disease that does more than give you coughs stays away from most people anyway.

Health liability insurance is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Smart people stay home. People who go without food when they miss work share their infectious diseases.

See the problem? It's not always about choice. Some of us are balancing on a razor's edge, and all it takes is one big catastrophe or a smaller series of them to push us over.

[The_pantless_hero]

What bill is being discussed now? If it something about subsidising or something similar to that then sure I'm all for that.

I'm discussing an imaginary universal healthcare bill. The one right now does 3 things: jack, shit, and insurance industry handouts.

See how incapable the politicians are of even coming up with a bill (or even keeping a consisten opinion). Do you really think they are going to ever come up with anything feasible?

Not as long as they bow to pressure from the right-wing punditry, lobbyists, and faux grass-roots movements.

This bill was dead the second they removed the wholly inconsequential section about having insurance pay for end of life talks due to the lies of partisan demagogues and the shouting of ignorant buffoons.

[Treznor]

What bill is being discussed now? If it something about subsidising or something similar to that then sure I'm all for that.

I'm discussing an imaginary universal healthcare bill. The one right now does 3 things: jack, shit, and insurance industry handouts.

See how incapable the politicians are of even coming up with a bill (or even keeping a consisten opinion). Do you really think they are going to ever come up with anything feasible?

You're being deliberately obtuse, aren't you?

I know I've said this before, but obviously it needs to be said again. Reagan got it wrong: government is not the problem, bad government is the problem. We need to put a wall of separation between business and state, along with the wall between church and state. We need to restore our education so people remember to hold politicians accountable, instead of voting strictly on ideology.

Bad Democrats are as much a part of the problem as bad Republicans. I'm part of a movement to replace bad Democrats with progressive ones. What are Republican voters doing to address the problems in their party membership?

[United Dependencies]

I'm discussing an imaginary universal healthcare bill. The one right now does 3 things: jack, shit, and insurance industry handouts.

See how incapable the politicians are of even coming up with a bill (or even keeping a consisten opinion). Do you really think they are going to ever come up with anything feasible?

Not as long as they bow to pressure from the right-wing punditry, lobbyists, and faux grass-roots movements.

Like that will ever happen.

[United Dependencies]

I'm discussing an imaginary universal healthcare bill. The one right now does 3 things: jack, shit, and insurance industry handouts.

See how incapable the politicians are of even coming up with a bill (or even keeping a consisten opinion). Do you really think they are going to ever come up with anything feasible?

You're being deliberately obtuse, aren't you?

I know I've said this before, but obviously it needs to be said again. Reagan got it wrong: government is not the problem, bad government is the problem. We need to put a wall of separation between business and state, along with the wall between church and state. We need to restore our education so people remember to hold politicians accountable, instead of voting strictly on ideology.

Bad Democrats are as much a part of the problem as bad Republicans. I'm part of a movement to replace bad Democrats with progressive ones. What are Republican voters doing to address the problems in their party membership?

I have no idea I'm more of a third party kind of person. But you do raise a good point.

[Hawkryl]

Unless you come down with an infectious disease, which, being an infectious disease, you are more likely to get than any other and thus threaten other people's health, bodies, and lives. Get health liability insurance and stop being a dick.

Any smart person who gets a infectious disease that does more than give you coughs stays away from most people anyway.

Never mind the fact that most diseases are most contagious before symptoms manifest. Or that you said "smart" and "most."

Health liability insurance is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I reserve the right to be facetious when confronted with pure ignorance and wanton idiocy.

The problem with HLI is that it opens the gate allowing people to sue whenever they get sick.

[Farnhamia]

The problem with HLI is that it opens the gate allowing people to sue whenever they get sick.

Since when? All it does is allow people to get treated without going broke.

[Hawkryl]

The problem with HLI is that it opens the gate allowing people to sue whenever they get sick.

Since when? All it does is allow people to get treated without going broke.

Because as soon as someone gets sick they'll start thinking "hey, someone else got me sick, it's not my fault i have to miss work/school/ect. I betcha I could sue them." which could very likely happen in the US of litigations.

[The_pantless_hero]

Any smart person who gets a infectious disease that does more than give you coughs stays away from most people anyway.

Never mind the fact that most diseases are most contagious before symptoms manifest. Or that you said "smart" and "most."

Health liability insurance is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I reserve the right to be facetious when confronted with pure ignorance and wanton idiocy.

The problem with HLI is that it opens the gate allowing people to sue whenever they get sick.

You obviously didn't even remotely get my point.

[Tekania]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081602248.html?wprss=rss_politics

Administration officials signaled Sunday that the White House may be willing to jettison a controversial government-run insurance plan

If this is the case, I may be willing to stop yelling at democrat congressmen.
The regulation may be a bit much for me, but so long as my right to not have insurance is protected I am happy.

"Right to not have insurance"? How is your "right to not have insurance" effected by giving people options?

[Great Imperium Romanum]

Of Course It's BAD! You aren't attended to immediatly and you don't get top quality five star rooms with exquisitly prepared food like you would in normal hospitals! *sarcasm*

I'm English and the NHS, whilst having it's faults, is a hell of a lot better than health care in America... for 95% of the population. If your rich then of course it will seem bad! And of course you will vote against your money being spent to help others less fortunate than yourself!

In short, most of the people who say no to national health care are those most apathetic to the plight of others and capable of paying for luxery healthcare.

[The_pantless_hero]

Of Course It's BAD! You aren't attended to immediatly and you don't get top quality five star rooms with exquisitly prepared food like you would in normal hospitals! *sarcasm*

I'm English and the NHS, whilst having it's faults, is a hell of a lot better than health care in America... for 95% of the population. If your rich then of course it will seem bad! And of course you will vote against your money being spent to help others less fortunate than yourself!

In short, most of the people who say no to national health care are those most apathetic to the plight of others and capable of paying for luxery healthcare.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090813/cm_csm/ymarino

[Farnhamia]

The problem with HLI is that it opens the gate allowing people to sue whenever they get sick.

Since when? All it does is allow people to get treated without going broke.

Because as soon as someone gets sick they'll start thinking "hey, someone else got me sick, it's not my fault i have to miss work/school/ect. I betcha I could sue them." which could very likely happen in the US of litigations.

Yeah, right. I can see that lasting all of three seconds in a courtroom.

[Valipac]

Everyone needs to take a step back and realize that the best option isn't the complete public sector dominance like the Republicans want or the "public option" the Democrats are pushing. Daniel Hannan was ripped for being "unpatriotic" when he discounted the NHS, but in reality, he's right. The health care system in Singapore is much better than either of the systems we constantly bicker about in America.

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/200 ... _heal.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Singapore

There's links that give more or less the basics of their system. Read it. Read other sources about their system. I'm pretty sure that if Democrats and Republicans would both get over themselves, they could agree to that system (and don't even try and suggest what the Democrats are pushing is similar to that 9_9)

Naturally everyone ignores my post about the best solution.

[Tried]

If there are any people who live in a country that have nationalized helthcare I would appreciate your answer to this question. Is government controlled healthcare really that bad? If so why? I think a little longer wait is better than getting screwed if someone gets injured and doesn't have insurance.

It is bad because everyone gets the same healthcare plan. Nobody gets their own modified plan, they have to go with the government plan even if the don't won't to and the national healthcare plan is ultra expensive and will cost taxpayers trillions of dollars. And the economy will crash. That is why national healthcare is terrible for a nation and it economy.

[Treznor]

If there are any people who live in a country that have nationalized helthcare I would appreciate your answer to this question. Is government controlled healthcare really that bad? If so why? I think a little longer wait is better than getting screwed if someone gets injured and doesn't have insurance.

It is bad because everyone gets the same healthcare plan. Nobody gets their own modified plan, they have to go with the government plan even if the don't won't to and the national healthcare plan is ultra expensive and will cost taxpayers trillions of dollars. And the economy will crash. That is why national healthcare is terrible for a nation and it economy.

Is that your opinion after living under national healthcare, or is that your opinion as handed down by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck?

[The_pantless_hero]

If there are any people who live in a country that have nationalized helthcare I would appreciate your answer to this question. Is government controlled healthcare really that bad? If so why? I think a little longer wait is better than getting screwed if someone gets injured and doesn't have insurance.

It is bad because everyone gets the same healthcare plan. Nobody gets their own modified plan, they have to go with the government plan even if the don't won't to and the national healthcare plan is ultra expensive and will cost taxpayers trillions of dollars. And the economy will crash. That is why national healthcare is terrible for a nation and it economy.

Seriously, whats with the puppets.

[The Alma Mater]

It is bad because everyone gets the same healthcare plan. Nobody gets their own modified plan

Where did you get that silly idea ?

they have to go with the government plan even if the don't won't to and the national healthcare plan is ultra expensive and will cost taxpayers trillions of dollars.

Nationalised healthcare in fact tends to be cheaper on average.

And the economy will crash. That is why national healthcare is terrible for a nation and it economy.

*watches how all those European economies have sofar failed to crash due to healthcare*
How close to bankrupt was the USA again ?

[Ashmoria]

i cannot fathom why the president would even consider dropping the public option as some kind of bone thrown to the republicans.

they still wont vote for the bill.

[Treznor]

i cannot fathom why the president would even consider dropping the public option as some kind of bone thrown to the republicans.

they still wont vote for the bill.

Because he's a centrist. He'll try to appeal to the center. It worked marvelously for Bill Clinton got Bill Clinton massacred by the GOP, and he's going for the same strategy. The fact that we elected him to be an agent of change and not centrism is beside the point. It's what he promised, and on that point he's delivering.

[Hawkryl]

Since when? All it does is allow people to get treated without going broke.

Because as soon as someone gets sick they'll start thinking "hey, someone else got me sick, it's not my fault i have to miss work/school/ect. I betcha I could sue them." which could very likely happen in the US of litigations.

Yeah, right. I can see that lasting all of three seconds in a courtroom.

Oh, like the woman who put her motor home on cruise control went to use the bathroom and the vehicle crashed, sued the company got 100k and a new motor home because the manual didn't say not to do that?

Or the lady who threw her drink at her boyfriend in a bar, then slipped on the liquid as she was storming out and broke a tooth got 10k?

I could list quite a few more if you want me to.

[Great Imperium Romanum]

Of Course It's BAD! You aren't attended to immediatly and you don't get top quality five star rooms with exquisitly prepared food like you would in normal hospitals! *sarcasm*

I'm English and the NHS, whilst having it's faults, is a hell of a lot better than health care in America... for 95% of the population. If your rich then of course it will seem bad! And of course you will vote against your money being spent to help others less fortunate than yourself!

In short, most of the people who say no to national health care are those most apathetic to the plight of others and capable of paying for luxery healthcare.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090813/cm_csm/ymarino

[Chazaka]

...

How about sourcing them instead of just listing them?

[Vetalia]

I think it's a good move. Railroading through the public option would have been an unmitigated political disaster whereas moving towards that system through a gradual series of reforms is far more likely to be successful. The simple truth is that whether for valid or invalid reasons most people didn't want this system and forcing it on them would have produced a backlash with seriously negative consequences in 2010, 2012 and beyond.