US/Obama Healthcare Plan Consolidated MEGA-THREAD

[The_pantless_hero]

Then it doesn't sound like you're down on them because they're "broken"; it sounds more like you're down on them because you simply dislike the idea of those programs to begin with. As in, "Those programs shouldn't be in existence in the first place!" kind of thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Although I would prefer they did not exist it's a little too late for that. At this point I would settle for making them fiscally sustainable.

Hmm...like increasing taxes and preventing their funds from being raided for other programs?

Ooh ooh, and reigning in drug and medical supplies profiteering.

[Pure Metal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

hehe, this made me lol

[Space Libertines]

They're probably trying to compromise that way if this plan ends up failing, they can blame the Republicans for "watering it down." It's quite smart politics.

Smart politics, bad government. It would have been like Bush saying --
Let's go to war... but hey those democrats don't think we should. Maybe I'll only send a fraction of the troops needed. That way I achieve a bipartisan consensus, and if it all fails then I can blame it on the democrats.

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

[The Infinite Dunes]

They're probably trying to compromise that way if this plan ends up failing, they can blame the Republicans for "watering it down." It's quite smart politics.

Smart politics, bad government. It would have been like Bush saying --
Let's go to war... but hey those democrats don't think we should. Maybe I'll only send a fraction of the troops needed. That way I achieve a bipartisan consensus, and if it all fails then I can blame it on the democrats.

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

My bad, I didn't get that from the original post. I agree with you. It seems that Obama is so worried about hurting anyone's feelings that he's paralyzed can't get anything useful done.

Palin? Palin is a bit player practically. Grassley, a key Republican on the fucking compromise committee, is saying he won't vote for the bill regardless of how much he himself personally guts it.

Obama needs to stop compromising and tell the Republicans to go fuck themselves then get whoever the fuck was in charge of his campaign to go out there right now and start generating some damn pro-healthcare reform noise.

American politics isn't my strong suit. But that Palin quote stuck in my mind. But definitely, Obama and his team have dropped the ball on this. I stick by my idea that Obama should poison all the Republican senators and force the bill through whilst all the Republican senators are recovering in hospital and can't attend congress. My Student Union is a little like that at times -- passing controversial motions when all the people who oppose the motion have gone home or are absent for whatever other reason.

[Marcuslandia]

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

I hate to admit it, but my worst fears are coming true. Just looking at how they are going about trying to get the reforms shaped and installed, it looks like the intention all along has been to fail, deliberately. And when the dust settles, we will be told, "We tried to get it done. Isn't it obvious that we tried? But those people wouldn't let it happen. Which proves that everyone needs to keep voting for us, because the only alternative is to let those people get to be in charge. Again. And you should remember what happened the last time they had uncontested control."

"Change you can believe in." I'm still waiting to see _any_ change, much less believe in it. Still looks like the same Old Story: We The People get screwed. Again.

[The Infinite Dunes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

hehe, this made me lol

Haha, that was awesome. Apparently, not only is the senator Jewish, but he's only gay too. The only way that woman could have been more insulting in her ignorance was if he was also disabled and Polish.

[The_pantless_hero]

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

I hate to admit it, but my worst fears are coming true. Just looking at how they are going about trying to get the reforms shaped and installed, it looks like the intention all along has been to fail, deliberately. And when the dust settles, we will be told, "We tried to get it done. Isn't it obvious that we tried? But those people wouldn't let it happen. Which proves that everyone needs to keep voting for us, because the only alternative is to let those people get to be in charge. Again. And you should remember what happened the last time they had uncontested control."

That only works if the Republicans havn't convinced all the idiots that universal healthcare is bad for them.

[Marcuslandia]

That only works if the Republicans havn't convinced all the idiots that universal healthcare is bad for them.

Doesn't have to be ALL of them. Just enough to ensure nothing gets passed.

[Space Libertines]

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

I hate to admit it, but my worst fears are coming true. Just looking at how they are going about trying to get the reforms shaped and installed, it looks like the intention all along has been to fail, deliberately. And when the dust settles, we will be told, "We tried to get it done. Isn't it obvious that we tried? But those people wouldn't let it happen. Which proves that everyone needs to keep voting for us, because the only alternative is to let those people get to be in charge. Again. And you should remember what happened the last time they had uncontested control."

"Change you can believe in." I'm still waiting to see _any_ change, much less believe in it. Still looks like the same Old Story: We The People get screwed. Again.

Yep. Noam Chomsky once said something on these lines, "There is one party in the United States, and that is the Business Party... It has two factions: the Democrats and the Republicans." Maybe if people started thinking like that, then We The People will not get screwed as much... Third party candidates (and Ron Paul) offer a real alternative.
If progressives really wanted change for the better, then they would all vote for Nader in droves. IMO, Nader would definitely be real change compared to Obama.

[Treznor]

That's what I was trying to say. Smart politics, but it's also bad government. The fact that Obama won't just pass the reform without any Republican support (which is possible) leads me to believe he is likely another corrupt politician.

I hate to admit it, but my worst fears are coming true. Just looking at how they are going about trying to get the reforms shaped and installed, it looks like the intention all along has been to fail, deliberately. And when the dust settles, we will be told, "We tried to get it done. Isn't it obvious that we tried? But those people wouldn't let it happen. Which proves that everyone needs to keep voting for us, because the only alternative is to let those people get to be in charge. Again. And you should remember what happened the last time they had uncontested control."

"Change you can believe in." I'm still waiting to see _any_ change, much less believe in it. Still looks like the same Old Story: We The People get screwed. Again.

Yep. Noam Chomsky once said something on these lines, "There is one party in the United States, and that is the Business Party... It has two factions: the Democrats and the Republicans." Maybe if people started thinking like that, then We The People will not get screwed as much... Third party candidates (and Ron Paul) offer a real alternative.
If progressives really wanted change for the better, then they would all vote for Nader in droves. IMO, Nader would definitely be real change compared to Obama.

I was with you up to the point where you said Ron Paul for an alternative. The Business Party may not realize it, but they'd have the leash taken off them under Ron Paul. The gutting of our regulatory system would usher in an era of worker exploitation and environmental pollution the likes of which have not been seen since the original Industrial Revolution.

I'll pass, thanks.

[Space Libertines]

I was with you up to the point where you said Ron Paul for an alternative. The Business Party may not realize it, but they'd have the leash taken off them under Ron Paul. The gutting of our regulatory system would usher in an era of worker exploitation and environmental pollution the likes of which have not been seen since the original Industrial Revolution.

I'll pass, thanks.

Yeah, I must admit... Ron Paul's ideas of basically gutting the entire gov't do scare me. There's others out there, I just listed Ron Paul because he is a member of the Republican Party but a de facto third party candidate.

[Marcuslandia]

Warm fuzzy thought just crossed my mind: What if the Republican and the Democratic Party were broken up, just like happened to AT&T?

[Milks Empire]

I was with you up to the point where you said Ron Paul for an alternative. The Business Party may not realize it, but they'd have the leash taken off them under Ron Paul. The gutting of our regulatory system would usher in an era of worker exploitation and environmental pollution the likes of which have not been seen since the original Industrial Revolution.

I'll pass, thanks.

Yeah, I must admit... Ron Paul's ideas of basically gutting the entire gov't do scare me. There's others out there, I just listed Ron Paul because he is a member of the Republican Party but a de facto third party candidate.

I stopped listening when he started sounding like he wanted to take us back to 1788. News flash, Ron: 2008 is MUCH different than they could have even imagined in 1788.

[The_pantless_hero]

I was with you up to the point where you said Ron Paul for an alternative. The Business Party may not realize it, but they'd have the leash taken off them under Ron Paul. The gutting of our regulatory system would usher in an era of worker exploitation and environmental pollution the likes of which have not been seen since the original Industrial Revolution.

I'll pass, thanks.

Yeah, I must admit... Ron Paul's ideas of basically gutting the entire gov't do scare me. There's others out there, I just listed Ron Paul because he is a member of the Republican Party but a de facto third party candidate.

No he's not. He may not agree with everything the Republican does on expanding the government and handing it over to corporations but he is wholly inline with them and turning America into a theocracy.

[Surote]

I like the whole reform except the public option it needs to go

[Farnhamia]

I like the whole reform except the public option it needs to go

Why? Everyone says the government will do a really shitty job offering a health insurance option, so no one will use, so it will wither away. So why not try it for a little while? \\Frankly, without it, why even bother? Why not just acknowledge that the insurance companies own health care in this country and use your political capital elsewhere?

[Tunizcha]

The health care bill is bullshit without the public option. All it will do without the public option is mandate more people to be covered, but by the Health Care companies, driving up prices for everyone and killing more people.

[Anarchic-Marxist]

I want universal health care but like thats ever going to happen in America.

[Maurepas]

um...your poll is loaded...

You ask a different question in the title than in the poll...

Without a Public Option, reforming Healthcare doesnt even make sense, hell, it isnt even a reform without it, just the same old, same old...Screw it without the Option...

Id even go so far as to say screw the whole damned Administration if they lose it, it was one of the primary reasons they were voted in in the first place...

But, on the other hand, I would like them to pass it with only Democratic support, the Republicans are going to vote no anyway, just so they can say they did when the elections roll around, and with a majority in both houses anyway, Im puzzled as to why they even bother with them,

[Ashmoria]

he wont get a single republican vote no matter how he waters down the bill. it would be stupid to not pass what needs to be passed--including a public option.

[Anarchic-Marxist]

If they dont have the public option they lost my vote sorry but fuck them.

[Yootopia]

If they dont have the public option they lost my vote sorry but fuck them.

Are you actually old enough to vote?

[Anarchic-Marxist]

If they dont have the public option they lost my vote sorry but fuck them.

Are you actually old enough to vote?

Yes I voted for Obama for president and Ron Paul for 22nd district.

[Rolling squid]

he wont get a single republican vote no matter how he waters down the bill. it would be stupid to not pass what needs to be passed--including a public option.

This. At least try to act like you want to reform health care. Letting the morons at town halls influence your policies isn't bipartisanship, it's stupidity, and playing right into their hands.

[Yootopia]

If they dont have the public option they lost my vote sorry but fuck them.

Are you actually old enough to vote?

Yes I voted for Obama for president

Hurrah!

and Ron Paul for 22nd district.

Why you done this? -_-