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US/Obama Healthcare Plan Consolidated MEGA-THREAD

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Marcuslandia
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Marcuslandia » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:56 pm

Robustian wrote:Ok, now how to correct things? First, the proper application of INSURANCE. Like any service, it should be retailed to you. That is, you pick someone, investigate whether you like them or not, inquire the price, and shop around if you don't like it.

This is the part of the argument that gets me. It sounds logical. But the whole process falls apart on one question: How do you know?

For instance, suppose you need to go to a dentist. If you incredibly disciplined, you'd have picked one out years in advance. But if you're like 90%+ of Americans, you don't even start looking until the toothache kicks in. So, how do you make a knowledgeable selection? Call 1-800-DENTIST? They'll give you a list of dentists in your area that have paid to be listed with 1-800-DENTIST. They'll tell you what school they graduated from (maybe). They'll tell you how long they've been in practice (maybe). And that's pretty much it. Nothing in all that to tell you if he's any good. Nor does it tell you how much the dentist charges for different procedures. You have to ask the dentist directly to get that info. Which he won't do unless you go in for an initial "consultation". Which is to say, $75 that will be knocked off the actual procedure -- provided it's done by _that_ dentist. And how do you know that all those ancillary problems he "finds" when he makes his exam are things that really, really need to be fixed right away? Or is he just mining your wallet? So, expand your search to the internet? Names and location, and at most, as much information as you got from 1-800-DENTIST, at best. Still nothing to tell you how good the dentist is. Check with friends and relatives? How much do you trust their judgment? And how well do they know about how their dentist stacks up compared to other dentists?

And after hours or days of "research", do you know if you've researched enough? What quality of info have you derived? Do you know if your choice is [i]good at what he does? Are his fees the lowest you could find? How do you _know_?

And you expect everyone to research the entire medical field -- in advance -- for every injury or disease that may require the services of a specialist? Like it's something so simple, any 12-year-old should be able to do a good job of it.

Something like .29% of Americans were doctors in 2004. (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of ... mprise.htm) The large majority of the rest of us are perhaps competent enough to know 1) "I don't feel so good" and 2) "I want someone to make me feel better." Beyond that, we'd rather not have to "research" to guess at who should fix us. Ideally, it would be a matter of: Go to hospital/clinic. See/be seen by a medical professional. Get appropriate treatment/medication. Go home. The closer we get to that, the MUCH happier we'll be.

We see news reports, movies, and read articles of how well government-managed healthcare works in other countries. In balance, we hear rants from opponents to government-managed healthcare that amounts to, "Don't believe that! Why, I've heard stories...." And beyond that, what we hear is that "Our government can't be trusted to do as well. So we should stick with what we've got now until the right changes occur at some vague, nebulous, unspecified time in the (far distant) future."

[My, _that_ was cathartic!]
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NERVUN
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby NERVUN » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:00 am

You mean THIS sec?

SEC. 440. HOME VISITATION PROGRAMS FOR FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN AND FAMILIES EXPECTING CHILDREN.

`(a) Purpose- The purpose of this section is to improve the well-being, health, and development of children by enabling the establishment and expansion of high quality programs providing voluntary home visitation for families with young children and families expecting children.

You and Chuck DO know what the hell voluntary means, don't you?

And reading through the second, it sounds like the normal pre and post natal instructions that just about every expectant mother is SUPPOSED to get to help them know little things like what to eat, how to change their baby, how to bathe it, and the like.

Horror of horrors!

:roll:
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Gauntleted Fist
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Gauntleted Fist » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:05 am

NERVUN wrote:Horror of horrors!

:roll:

The government is actually providing for its citizens?

The world is ending!

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Frangland
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Frangland » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:07 am

1) Who will pay for it? If everyone has to pay for his (and his family's) care, fine. If you're going to rape the rich and middle classes so Mr. Lazy can have health care, well, erm, that's Socialism and (thus) Unamerican.

2) Will the government mess with the time-honored doctor-patient relationship?

3) Is there a clause requiring people to either be gainfully employed or SERIOUSLY trying to gain employment? I re-state that I do not willingly give my hard-earned money to give people one more incentive to be lazy.

4) Are businesses going to be forced to carry it? How do y'all think that will affect entrepreneurialism, the life-force of our economic system?
Last edited by Frangland on Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Braaainsss
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Braaainsss » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:09 am

This is the least funny Chuck Norris joke ever.

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UnhealthyTruthseeker
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby UnhealthyTruthseeker » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:10 am

Frangland wrote:1) Who will pay for it? If everyone has to pay for his (and his family's) care, fine. If you're going to rape the rich and middle classes so Mr. Lazy can have health care, well, erm, that's Socialism and (thus) Unamerican.

2) Will the government mess with the time-honored doctor-patient relationship?

3) Is there a clause requiring people to either be gainfully employed or SERIOUSLY trying to gain employment? I re-state that I do not willingly give my hard-earned money to give people one more incentive to be lazy.


1) I thought the buzz phrase was taxation is theft. Now taxation is rape?

2) I don't see why they would. Also, this question presupposes that there is one model of doctor-patient relationship and that there is no variation at all.

3) I don't even think the bill has been written yet.
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Intangelon
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Intangelon » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:12 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Intangelon wrote:Rotten post, rotten poll.

Please cite the exact part of the bill where this is even remotely close to accurate.

You won't be able to, but try anyway.


Dude, read the link! Sections 440 and 1904, on page 838 ! :palm:


There is no link to the House Bill in the article, so I have one here. I love doing this, but it can get old.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Okay, here's the text starting at page 838:
AAHCA Bill wrote:SEC. 1904. GRANTS TO STATES FOR QUALITY HOME VISITA- 1
TION PROGRAMS FOR FAMILIES WITH YOUNG 2
CHILDREN AND FAMILIES EXPECTING CHIL-3
DREN. 4
Part B of title IV of the Social Security Act (42 5
U.S.C. 621–629i) is amended by adding at the end the 6
following: 7
‘‘Subpart 3—Support for Quality Home Visitation 8
Programs 9
‘‘SEC. 440. HOME VISITATION PROGRAMS FOR FAMILIES 10
WITH YOUNG CHILDREN AND FAMILIES EX-11
PECTING CHILDREN. 12
‘‘(a) PURPOSE.—The purpose of this section is to im-13
prove the well-being, health, and development of children 14
by enabling the establishment and expansion of high qual-15
ity programs providing voluntary home visitation for fami-16
lies with young children and families expecting children. 17
‘‘(b) GRANTAPPLICATION.—A State that desires to 18
receive a grant under this section shall submit to the Sec-19
retary for approval, at such time and in such manner as 20
the Secretary may require, an application for the grant 21
that includes the following: 22
‘‘(1) DESCRIPTION OF HOME VISITATION PRO-23
GRAMS.—A description of the high quality programs 24
of home visitation for families with young children 25
and families expecting children that will be sup-26

839
ported by a grant made to the State under this sec-1
tion, the outcomes the programs are intended to 2
achieve, and the evidence supporting the effective-3
ness of the programs. 4
‘‘(2) RESULTS OF NEEDS ASSESSMENT.—The 5
results of a statewide needs assessment that de-6
scribes— 7
‘‘(A) the number, quality, and capacity of 8
home visitation programs for families with 9
young children and families expecting children 10
in the State; 11
‘‘(B) the number and types of families who 12
are receiving services under the programs; 13
‘‘(C) the sources and amount of funding 14
provided to the programs; 15
‘‘(D) the gaps in home visitation in the 16
State, including identification of communities 17
that are in high need of the services; and 18
‘‘(E) training and technical assistance ac-19
tivities designed to achieve or support the goals 20
of the programs. 21
‘‘(3) ASSURANCES.—Assurances from the State 22
that— 23
‘‘(A) in supporting home visitation pro-24
grams using funds provided under this section, 25

840
the State shall identify and prioritize serving 1
communities that are in high need of such serv-2
ices, especially communities with a high propor-3
tion of low-income families or a high incidence 4
of child maltreatment; 5
‘‘(B) the State will reserve 5 percent of the 6
grant funds for training and technical assist-7
ance to the home visitation programs using 8
such funds; 9
‘‘(C) in supporting home visitation pro-10
grams using funds provided under this section, 11
the State will promote coordination and collabo-12
ration with other home visitation programs (in-13
cluding programs funded under title XIX) and 14
with other child and family services, health 15
services, income supports, and other related as-16
sistance; 17
‘‘(D) home visitation programs supported 18
using such funds will, when appropriate, pro-19
vide referrals to other programs serving chil-20
dren and families; and 21
‘‘(E) the State will comply with subsection 22
(i), and cooperate with any evaluation con-23
ducted under subsection (j). 24

841
‘‘(4) OTHERINFORMATION.—Such other infor-1
mation as the Secretary may require. 2


...and so forth. This section of the bill appears to be describing the requirements for a grant to states wishing to receive money to facilitate home visits by healthcare professionals to families who...what...might be at risk of abuse or neglect of their kids, or might need pre-natal/neo-natal/pediatric care.

I hate to risk a cowboy-boot beheading here, but, [Here quoting Brian from the "comments" section, who said what I was about to, and I'm damned glad I read through some of the comments and didn't have to type it all myself...thanks, Brian.]

Brian from CA wrote:Um Chuck -- we do this now.

Mental health services (note the words, "health services") provides these types of services now in situations where children are at danger or at risk. We aren't talking about at risk of spankings here. We are speaking of domestic violence, where children get broken bones, cuts, and bruises. We do this in cases where the police are forced to come to break up domestic disputes. We do this in cases of child neglect and child abuse. The programs are very effective. They cover things like anger management and building social and coping skills. We do this in cases where parents have suffered from severe trauma and loss and even drug abuse recovery. They are called "social services". They exist in private as well as public hospitals and clinics. It saves lives. It protects children. It actually helps to keep families together and children in their homes.

While I admire Chuck's work with at risk kids, it does little to address the needs of children who are at risk from their parents behavior. It helps to understand the full scope of health services before you speak out about it though. Norris understands one aspect. There are others. There is nothing in the bill that discourages karate camps or parents freedom to control their kids as they wish. Social Services steps in when parents begin doing things to their children that are illegal. It's called child endangerment.

The reason why you pay:

The government has an interest in keeping children out of prison. The government has an interest in making sure kids are safe in their own homes. The government has an interest in making it possible for young kids to remain in their homes. If parents who are at the end of their ropes seek out the state's help it is very cheap to give it to them as opposed to having the kids enter into foster care, juvenile justice, and eventually end up in prison. These programs have been shown to work. They are cheap. If you feel the state is better off spending their money warehousing the children as they grow up we can have this debate. I would suggest that you look at the research regarding these programs before you make up your mind. There are many, many successes. The cost of prevention in these cases is very, very low.

It costs $40,000 to $100,000 to incarcerate a child who has become violent or mentally ill in adulthood due to his abuse and violence in childhood.
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Marcuslandia
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Marcuslandia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:20 am

Frangland wrote:1) Who will pay for it? If everyone has to pay for his (and his family's) care, fine. If you're going to rape the rich and middle classes so Mr. Lazy can have health care, well, erm, that's Socialism and (thus) Unamerican.

2) Will the government mess with the time-honored doctor-patient relationship?

3) Is there a clause requiring people to either be gainfully employed or SERIOUSLY trying to gain employment? I re-state that I do not willingly give my hard-earned money to give people one more incentive to be lazy.

1) Logical extension: Are you saying, "Let Mr. Lazy _die_"? And along with him anybody that might be a Mr. Lazy? After all, if you rounded up a bunch of poor, uninsured people, how would one go about assessing which were in Mr. Lazy's category and which were victims of circumstance? Such an assessment would seem to require (gasp!) a government agency to do background checks, etc. And at the end of it all, would you really _want_ some bureaucrat deciding who gets to live and who gets to die? Like he was some high-and-mighty claims adjuster. That would be outrageous -- wouldn't it?

2) Seems to me it would be pretty much the way it is now: Hospitals do the work and the government (instead of the insurance companies) pays the bills. Minus the insurance company's need to make a profit, even if it costs people their lives.

3) Once again, are you saying, "If I don't like the looks of them, let them die?" [Just once, I'd like someone to answer the question, preferably with a "yes" or "no".]
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Redwulf
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Redwulf » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:20 am

Intangelon wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Intangelon wrote:Rotten post, rotten poll.

Please cite the exact part of the bill where this is even remotely close to accurate.

You won't be able to, but try anyway.


Dude, read the link! Sections 440 and 1904, on page 838 ! :palm:


There is no link to the House Bill in the article, so I have one here. I love doing this, but it can get old.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


So . . . either I was right and Chuck didn't read the bill or Chucks reading comprehension needs work.
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Intangelon
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Intangelon » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:21 am

Redwulf wrote:
Intangelon wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:Dude, read the link! Sections 440 and 1904, on page 838 ! :palm:


There is no link to the House Bill in the article, so I have one here. I love doing this, but it can get old.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


So . . . either I was right and Chuck didn't read the bill or Chuck's reading comprehension needs work.


I'm not sure it matters which, does it?
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Daistallia 2104
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Daistallia 2104 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:23 am

NERVUN wrote:You and Chuck DO know what the hell voluntary means, don't you?


Watching stuff like this that's been going on over the last weeks and months, has convinced me a large number of folks back home have finally, completely, and irrevocably gone off the deep end.
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Frangland
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Frangland » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:27 am

UnhealthyTruthseeker wrote:
Frangland wrote:1) Who will pay for it? If everyone has to pay for his (and his family's) care, fine. If you're going to rape the rich and middle classes so Mr. Lazy can have health care, well, erm, that's Socialism and (thus) Unamerican.

2) Will the government mess with the time-honored doctor-patient relationship?

3) Is there a clause requiring people to either be gainfully employed or SERIOUSLY trying to gain employment? I re-state that I do not willingly give my hard-earned money to give people one more incentive to be lazy.


1) I thought the buzz phrase was taxation is theft. Now taxation is rape?

2) I don't see why they would. Also, this question presupposes that there is one model of doctor-patient relationship and that there is no variation at all.

3) I don't even think the bill has been written yet.


1) Taxation, per se, is not theft -- there are plenty of causes that help us all: roads/infrastructure, defense, cops, firefighters, education (indirectly, even if ya don't have kids) -- but when money is taken from someone and put into something that will not benefit him -- when that money more or less goes from your pocket to someone else's .. that's my peeve. To me, that is the essence of Socialism. I'd rather pay lower taxes and donate the extra money to charities. At least that way I'd be deciding where goeth my funds and I'd maybe be able to personally minister to people.

(this might be a launching-pad for an old-fashioned "states' rights vs. federal rights" argument, vaguely, but it's 2:23 and work beckons -- with nasty claws and under threat of a festering hangover -- in seven hours...)

2) Fair enough -- I just don't want the government overruling doctors and patients. (same deal with private insurance, to be fair)

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Ryadn
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Ryadn » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:39 am

Daistallia 2104 wrote:
NERVUN wrote:You and Chuck DO know what the hell voluntary means, don't you?


Watching stuff like this that's been going on over the last weeks and months, has convinced me a large number of folks back home have finally, completely, and irrevocably gone off the deep end.


But someone said that Chuck Norris said that the bill said that the government wants to take our kids! I don't see how you could be skeptical about this!
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NERVUN
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby NERVUN » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:44 am

Daistallia 2104 wrote:
NERVUN wrote:You and Chuck DO know what the hell voluntary means, don't you?


Watching stuff like this that's been going on over the last weeks and months, has convinced me a large number of folks back home have finally, completely, and irrevocably gone off the deep end.

It's watching stuff like this that makes me wonder why I want to go back home in the first place.

Of course, August 1st was the start of year 5 for me, so it looks like I'm not going back anyway. :p
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Intangelon
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Intangelon » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:44 am

Ryadn wrote:
Daistallia 2104 wrote:
NERVUN wrote:You and Chuck DO know what the hell voluntary means, don't you?


Watching stuff like this that's been going on over the last weeks and months, has convinced me a large number of folks back home have finally, completely, and irrevocably gone off the deep end.


But someone said that Chuck Norris said that the bill said that the government wants to take our kids! I don't see how you could be skeptical about this!


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Cabra West
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Cabra West » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:48 am

Bergnovinaia wrote:If there are any people who live in a country that have nationalized helthcare I would appreciate your answer to this question. Is government controlled healthcare really that bad? If so why? I think a little longer wait is better than getting screwed if someone gets injured and doesn't have insurance.


I've lived in two countries with government controlled health care... I can't say I ever experienced any wait whatsoever for anything at all.
It works just fine, really.
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Redwulf
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Redwulf » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:02 am

Speaking of wacky ol' Chuck does any of this . . .

Wikipedia wrote:Norris created the martial art Chun Kuk Do, which is based primarily on Tang Soo Do and includes elements from every combat style he knows. Like many other martial arts, Chun Kuk Do includes a code of honor and rules to live by. These rules are from Chuck Norris's personal code. They are:

1. I will develop myself to the maximum of my potential in all ways.
2. I will forget the mistakes of the past and press on to greater achievements.
3. I will continually work at developing love, happiness and loyalty in my family.
4. I will look for the good in all people and make them feel worthwhile.
5. If I have nothing good to say about a person, I will say nothing.
6. I will always be as enthusiastic about the success of others as I am about my own.
7. I will maintain an attitude of open-mindedness.
8. I will maintain respect for those in authority and demonstrate this respect at all times.
9. I will always remain loyal to God, my country, family and my friends.
10. I will remain highly goal-oriented throughout my life because that positive attitude helps my family, my country and myself.


Which is allegedly from his own personal code seem odd when compared to his political positions/talk of Texas seceding and him running for it's president?
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NERVUN
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby NERVUN » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:04 am

Robustian wrote:
Bergnovinaia wrote:If there are any people who live in a country that have nationalized helthcare I would appreciate your answer to this question. Is government controlled healthcare really that bad? If so why? I think a little longer wait is better than getting screwed if someone gets injured and doesn't have insurance.


The purpose of government is to promote, defend, and enhance the liberty and the self determination of individuals. Government run services of any kind tend to interefere with that goal. The only legitemate role of govenrment is to defend the individual's right to determine what he wants to do, defend his rights, his freedoms, and to prevent others from infringing on him.

Being a nanny state, which controls the people, pretends to "shield" them from life, risk, or the harsheness of life is little more than "pleasant slavery". I want no part of it. Life is tough, harsh, full of risk, but it makes strong, wise, and durable people. So, given the choice of living in slavery or taking care of one's self... I say, BRING IT ON, I am no slave and will fight to death to keep from being one. Patrick Henry said it best... Give me liberty, or give me death.

In health care, anything but liberty IS death. There are only a few types of people who actually WANT government run health care... Those who think the world owes them every convenience and comfort at someone else's expense, those who have an evil greed for power and seek power over other's lives, in the form of being in charge of other's vital services... and those who ideologically believe that government is infallible, and seek to use it to create utopia on earth.

All of them are completely wrong, and should never be listened to.

Or it could just be none of the above but comes from folks who have lived under such a system and find it vastly superior to the one back at home.
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Non Aligned States
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Non Aligned States » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:21 am

NERVUN wrote:It's watching stuff like this that makes me wonder why I want to go back home in the first place.


Hamburger where it's actually pan grilled meat patty in a sesame bun with additional filling like lettuce, tomatoes, cheese and a side of thick straight cut fries and not pan fried meat patty in some sauce sitting on a bed of rice garnished with carrots and peas I imagine.

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West Failure
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby West Failure » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:27 am

Please stop making these threads.

Dear Mods can we have just one Obama and Healthcare thread rather than Yu-Gi-Owe spamming us with a new one everyday?
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Folder Land wrote:But why do religious conservatives have more power in the States but not so much power in the UK that still has a state church?

Because our country is better than yours.

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No Names Left Damn It
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby No Names Left Damn It » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:42 am

Chuck Norris is a reactionary fucking moron. You have that in common with him, You-gi-Owe.
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Yootopia
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Re: Chuck Norris: Obamacare has Govt. Meddling Child-Rearing

Postby Yootopia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:52 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Gee, who would have believed that Chuck Norris would sit down and read that thousand page travesty of a so-called "health care reform bill" that the House fo Representatives put out in the last couple of weeks? I mean, popular belief suggests that none of the elected U.S. Representatives and Senators have actually read the whole thing, but have just made sure that certain wheels get greased if it manages to become law.

Popular belief is often stupid.
If Mr. Norris is to be believed, it seems like the Govt. will have a bigger say in how you raise your children, whether you want them to have that much say or not.

He isn't telling the truth, though, so there we go.
I'm sure the Govt. only has the best of intentions regarding the kids, you know, telling them not to get too attached to granny and gramps 'cuz it's better if you just give the old folks some pain killers and pull the plugs on their life support.

Uhu... not actually the case.
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Yootopia
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Yootopia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:03 am

German Capitalists wrote:The real question is, is Government Controlled Health care really that good?

Yes.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Yootopia
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Yootopia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:11 am

Robustian wrote:The purpose of government is to promote, defend, and enhance the liberty and the self determination of individuals. Government run services of any kind tend to interefere with that goal. The only legitemate role of govenrment is to defend the individual's right to determine what he wants to do, defend his rights, his freedoms, and to prevent others from infringing on him.

I seem to remember the right to life being pretty high on the list of things to protect in the constitution. Proper healthcare might help with this.
Being a nanny state, which controls the people, pretends to "shield" them from life, risk, or the harsheness of life is little more than "pleasant slavery". I want no part of it. Life is tough, harsh, full of risk, but it makes strong, wise, and durable people. So, given the choice of living in slavery or taking care of one's self... I say, BRING IT ON, I am no slave and will fight to death to keep from being one. Patrick Henry said it best... Give me liberty, or give me death.

Yeah, Patrick Henry would know quite a lot about slavery ;)
In health care, anything but liberty IS death.

Wtf are you talking about -_-

Even if the NHS was to ban private health firms it would still be a pretty exemplary healthcare system.
There are only a few types of people who actually WANT government run health care... Those who think the world owes them every convenience and comfort at someone else's expense, those who have an evil greed for power and seek power over other's lives, in the form of being in charge of other's vital services... and those who ideologically believe that government is infallible, and seek to use it to create utopia on earth.

Or those who reckon that if they're paying taxes to the government, they really ought to be looked after by it. Nothing to do with infallibility, everything to do with having employees of the government looking after the welfare of its citizens as best they can.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Dyelli Beybi
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Re: Is Government Controlled Healthcare Really That Bad?

Postby Dyelli Beybi » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:31 am

Actually it has been observed that as a percentage of National GDP States with Government health care plans spend less than those with private ones because of the cost to the economy of health insurance. This is a major cost to business as well as to individuals that could be reduced by the implementation of a propper State run system.

This can be observed by studying the figures in the following chart. One can clearly observe a general negative correlation between percentage of spending by the State and spending as a proportion of GDP. That is to say, the more the State puts in the less the country puts in in total.

http://www.childpolicyintl.org/contextt ... ble261.pdf

No, this theory does not match with traditional Neo-liberal theories regarding private sector efficiency but it has been observed empirically to be true. It makes total economic sense to run a state health care system, the only resistance to this is from those too pig headed to look past stereotypes about 'socialism'.

The following is an article on the projected figures for spending on health care as a proportion of GDP.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

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