Should Turkey return the territories it has stolen?

[Angleter]

No, since there are very few Greeks or Armenians left in Turkey. Kurdish independence would have to be supported by most Turkish Kurds, and then there'd be the matter of Iraq and Iran's Kurds.

What about the Assyrians? They always get forgotten in these things.

All 22,000 of them? Yeah, they do.

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

[Farnhamia]

No, since there are very few Greeks or Armenians left in Turkey. Kurdish independence would have to be supported by most Turkish Kurds, and then there'd be the matter of Iraq and Iran's Kurds.

What about the Assyrians? They always get forgotten in these things.

They dont really have any obvious place where they could have they nation-state.

Tsk. What about "the Tur Abdin, Hakkari, Van, Siirt regions of present-day southeastern Turkey and the Urmia region of northwestern Iran," as the WIki article on the Assyrian Genocide says?

[Buffett and Colbert]

There is practically no debate about Turkish borders. There is a clear and marked difference.

What is that even for a kind of argument? Just becuase there is no debate (which there actually is in some circles and especially regarding kurdistan) does't mean it is justified.

I mean there is not a large population who are concerned about it. Three percent of Puerto Ricans want independence for the island. Just because there IS a debate doesn't mean it matters. At all.

[Farnhamia]

All 22,000 of them? Yeah, they do.

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

The low-hanging fruit principle, I suppose.

[Arilandon]

Becuase it was a fair treaty, allocating land based on the ethnic composition of the areas.

But by your own admission the "ethnic composition" of those territories is not what it was. Allocating them as they were 90 years ago no longer makes sense.

If the refugees and they descendants had a "right of return" than that would quickly change.

[Arilandon]

No there is no difference, just because there isn't a debate about it means nothing, if people are going to bitch about Israel then they better bitch about any other nation on this earth that has taken territory.

Even when they are wholly different situations? When one situation presently is causing harm to thousands of people and the other did so one hundred years prior? Mmm, no.

How is the present situation harming people? Also there is still discrimination going on thus the present situation in turkey is harming people.

[Arilandon]

It was signed by the ottoman empire which was turkish.

The treaty was never ratified, and it was annulled either way.

It was.

[Arilandon]

All 22,000 of them? Yeah, they do.

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

[Galloism]

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

If the refugees and their descendants had a right of return, that would quickly change.

[Farnhamia]

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

Not so.

What's the minimum amount of land that has to have been "stolen" by the Turks, to meet your criteria?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Even when they are wholly different situations? When one situation presently is causing harm to thousands of people and the other did so one hundred years prior? Mmm, no.

How is the present situation harming people? Also there is still discrimination going on thus the present situation in turkey is harming people.

Discrimination is a wholly different matter than territorial issues, which is the subject of this thread.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict not harming people... wow.

[Lydenburg]

The last thread like this was only up a month ago. It was called, 'Why does Turkey steal land that does not belong to them?' and it was dealing with the same treaties that are the focus of this one.

Locked in less than three days for all the tension it caused....if anyone cares to keep this from a similar fate I recommend that you remember that the mods will be watching and waiting.

[Arilandon]

They dont really have any obvious place where they could have they nation-state.

Tsk. What about "the Tur Abdin, Hakkari, Van, Siirt regions of present-day southeastern Turkey and the Urmia region of northwestern Iran," as the WIki article on the Assyrian Genocide says?

I dont know if they had a majority of assyrians, also there are not enough left that could return.

[Arilandon]

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

The low-hanging fruit principle, I suppose.

What's that?

[New Palikir]

One of the main talking points on why Israel shouldn't be allowed to exist is because it was occupied by a foreign country. Turkey should give back the territory it stole before anyone starts condemning Israel of anything like that.

[Arilandon]

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

If the refugees and their descendants had a right of return, that would quickly change.

Because there are over 2 million descendants!

[Farnhamia]

The last thread like this was only up a month ago. It was called, 'Why does Turkey steal land that does not belong to them?' and it was dealing with the same treaties that are the focus of this one.

Locked in less than three days for all the tension it caused....if anyone cares to keep this from a similar fate I recommend that you remember that the mods will be watching and waiting.

Really? How did I miss that? I don't feel particularly tense, do you? Arilandon might be feeling a little surrounded, though.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Depends on how it benefits them to do so, I suppose.

If they want to get into the EU they should probably move out of Norther Cyprus; though in I seriously doubt they'll ever be let in as a member.

[North Calaveras]

One of the main talking points on why Israel shouldn't be allowed to exist is because it was occupied by a foreign country. Turkey should give back the territory it stole before anyone starts condemning Israel of anything like that.

Problem is that people will defend turkeys claimed territorys but then bitch about Israel.

[Arilandon]

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

Not so.

What's the minimum amount of land that has to have been "stolen" by the Turks, to meet your criteria?

My criteria of what?

[Angleter]

Well, since they were equally butchered from 1915-23 by the Turks, and now outnumber Greeks in Turkey by ten to one, I'd have thought Arilandon would be all for them getting a state of some sorts. But no mention of them.

Because they are equally spread around it would be impossible for them to get a nation-state.

At least they're actually there (and there are hundreds of thousands in nearby North Iraq), unlike the Greeks whose population in Turkey numbers 2,500.

[Farnhamia]

The low-hanging fruit principle, I suppose.

What's that?

You go for the easy ones, not the difficult injustices like the Assyrians.

[Galloism]

If the refugees and their descendants had a right of return, that would quickly change.

Because there are over 2 million descendants!

So, clearly, if you're in a significant minority, you don't deserve to have the injustices against YOU reversed.

Yep. Seeing it now.

[Arilandon]

How is the present situation harming people? Also there is still discrimination going on thus the present situation in turkey is harming people.

Discrimination is a wholly different matter than territorial issues, which is the subject of this thread.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict not harming people... wow.

It does't harm people in any other area than discrimination. Also the independence of kurdistan would solve the discrimination issue for the kurds, territory and discrimination are linked.

[Galloism]

The last thread like this was only up a month ago. It was called, 'Why does Turkey steal land that does not belong to them?' and it was dealing with the same treaties that are the focus of this one.

Locked in less than three days for all the tension it caused....if anyone cares to keep this from a similar fate I recommend that you remember that the mods will be watching and waiting.

Really? How did I miss that? I don't feel particularly tense, do you? Arilandon might be feeling a little surrounded, though.

I'm really relaxed. It's Friday, I got a bottle of beer and I'm cooking a pizza.

Guess I really need to choke down a salad first. Trying to get healthy.