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Drug War results in giant waste of money, Everyone shocked.

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New Manvir
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Drug War results in giant waste of money, Everyone shocked.

Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:12 pm

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 2011.story

As drug cartels wreak murderous havoc from Mexico to Panama, the Obama administration is unable to show that the billions of dollars spent in the war on drugs have significantly stemmed the flow of illegal narcotics into the United States, according to two government reports and outside experts.

The reports specifically criticize the government's growing use of U.S. contractors, which were paid more than $3 billion to train local prosecutors and police, help eradicate fields of coca, operate surveillance equipment and otherwise battle the widening drug trade in Latin America over the last five years.

"We are wasting tax dollars and throwing money at a problem without even knowing what we are getting in return," said Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), who chairs the Senate subcommittee that wrote one of the reports, which was released Wednesday.

"I think we have wasted our money hugely," agreed Bruce Bagley, who studies U.S. counter-narcotics efforts and chairs international studies at the University of Miami at Coral Gables, Fla. "The effort has had corrosive effects on every country it has touched."

Obama administration officials strongly deny that U.S. efforts have failed to reduce drug production or smuggling in Latin America.

White House officials say the expanding U.S. counter-narcotics effort occupies a growing portion of time for President Obama's national security team even though it garners few headlines or congressional hearings in Washington.

The majority of U.S. counter-narcotics contracts are awarded to five companies: DynCorp, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, ITT and ARINC, according to the report for the contracting oversight subcommittee, part of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Counter-narcotics contract spending increased 32% over the five-year period, from $482 million in 2005 to $635 million in 2009. DynCorp, based in Falls Church, Va., received the largest total, $1.1 billion.

Among other jobs, the U.S. contractors train local police and investigators, provide logistical support to intelligence collection centers and fly airplanes and helicopters that spray herbicides to eradicate coca crops grown to produce cocaine.

The Department of Defense has spent $6.1 billion since 2005 to help detect planes and boats heading to the U.S. with drug payloads, as well as on surveillance and other intelligence operations.

Senate staff members described some of the expenses as "difficult to characterize." The Army spent $75,000 for paintball supplies for training exercises in 2007, for example, and $5,000 for what the military calls "rubber ducks." The ducks are rubber replicas of M-16 rifles that are used in training exercises, a Pentagon spokesman said.

The Defense Department described its own system for tracking those contracts as "error prone," according to the Senate report. The report also said the Defense Department doesn't have reliable data about how successful its efforts have been.

A separate report last month by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, concluded that the State Department "does not have a centralized inventory of counter-narcotics contracts" and said the department does not evaluate the overall success of its counter-narcotics program.

"It's become increasingly clear that our efforts to rein in the narcotics trade in Latin America, especially as it relates to the government's use of contractors, have largely failed," McCaskill said.

Vanda Felbab-Brown, an expert on U.S. drug policy at the Brookings Institution think tank in Washington, said the U.S. military and other government agencies, not private contractors, should take the lead in training foreign armies and police in drug eradication and control.

"But unless we are able to resource our government properly, that is the only way we can do it," Felbab-Brown said.

The latest assault on the United States' counter-narcotics strategy comes a week after a high-profile group of world leaders called the global war on drugs a costly failure.

The group, which included former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and past presidents of Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, recommended that regional governments try legalizing and regulating drugs to help stop the flood of cash going to drug mafias and other organized crime groups.

But James Gregory, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Defense Department's efforts against the drug trade "have been among the most successful and cost-effective programs" in decades. He cited the U.S. success in the 1980s in stopping cocaine shipments from Colombia that had been inundating Florida, and the efforts in the 1990s at helping Colombia overcome a drug-fueled insurgency.

"By any reasonable assessment, the U.S. has received ample strategic national security benefits in return for its investments in this area," he said.

Administration officials say that the counter-narcotics program is producing more recent benefits as well.

Along the Mexican border, increased patrols and other efforts have helped seize 31% more drugs, 75% more cash and 64% more weapons during the first 21/2 years of the Obama administration than in the previous 21/2 years, the Homeland Security Department says.

After a decade of U.S. assistance to Colombia and years of using U.S. contractors there, annual cocaine production in Colombia has fallen 60% since 2001, according to the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. Some of that cocaine production has shifted to Peru, however.

Backed by the U.S., Mexico's stepped-up offensive against drug cartels similarly has had the unintended effect of pushing them deeper into Central America, especially Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. Violence has soared in those countries.


One result has been a new emphasis on surveillance technology and intelligence collection.

In particular, the U.S. effort has focused on improving efforts to intercept cellphone and Internet traffic of drug cartels in the region, according to two U.S. officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

During a visit to El Salvador in February, the head of the State Department's counter-narcotics programs, William Brownfield, opened a wiretapping center in San Salvador, as well as a regional office to share fingerprints and other data with U.S. law enforcement. El Salvador is the hub for U.S. law enforcement efforts in Central America.


So the Obama administration, after spending billions of taxpayer dollars, is having a hard time justifying it's expenses in the War on (Some) Drugs. After spending roughly $3 billion on hiring military contractors to train various police organizations in Mexico and Latin America, as well as $6.1 billion by the Department of Defense on surveillance and intelligence, there is almost nothing to show for it.

As if that weren't bad enough. it seems that the State Department and Defense Department's handling of the entire situation is incredibly, for lack of a better phrase, half-assed. Rather than actually defeat drug cartels, the actions of the US government has merely moved their operations deeper into Latin America. Cocaine production in Colombia has been steadily moving to Peru, while former Mexican cartels have now begun operating in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.

On a related note: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ences.html

More than 50 per cent on inmates in U.S. federal prisons were jailed for drug offences, shocking new figures show.

The statistics from the Federal Bureau of Prisons, an agency of the U.S. Department of Justice, reveal that out of a total inmate population of 215,888, 102,391 (that's 50.8 per cent) were jailed for drug offences.

The second highest crime area was weapons, explosives and arson offences with a prison population of 30,509, that's 15.1 per cent, according to the figures published on the Department's website on May 28 of this year.

Murder, aggravated Assault and kidnapping Offenses made up 2.7 per cent with 5,473 inmates.

The drug offences relate to crime in multiple ways. Most directly, it is use, possession, manufacturing and distributing drugs classified as having a potential for abuse, such as cocaine, heroin, morphine and amphetamines.

But the offences also involve crimes such as drug trafficking and drug production controlled by drug cartels, organized crime and gangs.

The concept of drug related crime, however, has frequently been criticized for its failure to distinguish between the types of crime associated with drugs.

Use-related crimes are those that result from or involve people who ingest drugs and who commit crimes as an result of the effect the drug has on their behaviour.

The second main area is economic-related crimes where an individual commits a crime to fund a drug habit. These include theft and prostitution.

The third are system-related crimes resulting from the structure of the drug system, including manufacture, transportation, sale of drugs and violence related to the production or sale of drugs, such as a turf war.

The Washington DC-based Justice Police Institute, in its 2009 paper 'Pruning Prisons: How Cutting Corrections Can Save Money and Protect Public Safety,' said: 'The number of people in state prisons for drug offences has increased 550 per cent over the last 20 years. A recent JPI report found that the amount spent on “cops and courts” – not rates of drug use -- is correlated to admissions to prison for drug offences.

'Counties that spend more on law enforcement and the judiciary admit more people to prison for drug offences than counties that spend less. And increases in federal funding through the Edward Byrne Memorial State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance Grant Program have promoted increases in resources dedicated to drug enforcement.

'As crime continues to fall in many communities, law enforcement will have more time to focus on aggressive policing of drug offences; this can be expected to lead to even higher drug imprisonment rates and crowded jails and prisons.

'According to FBI reports, 83 per cent of drug arrests are for possession of illegal drugs alone. And regardless of crime in a particular jurisdiction, police often target the same neighbourhoods to make drug arrests, which can increase the disproportionate incarceration of people of colour.'

The new figures are sure to ignite the debate over whether drug offenders need more treatment instead of being dealt with through the traditional judicial system.

The National Association of Criminal Defence Lawyers concluded after a two-year study that national standards must be developed to deal with drug offenders, and the role of drug courts should be reduced in favour of more treatment programmes

The figures come after a report earlier this year that showed that African Americans are eight times more likely to face jail for petty drugs crimes than whites convicted of the same offence.

The report, by the Illinois Disproportionate Justice Impact Study Commission, found 19 per cent of black defendants accused of minor drug-possession crimes in the state were sent to prison, compared to just four per cent of white defendants.


Over 50% of US prison inmates are in jail on drug charges. Around 83% of those arrests are for simple possession, and a disproportionate amount of the people arrested are minorities. It seems, since crime rates have been steadily declining, police departments justify their budgets by focusing more attention on arresting drug users (not producers and dealers, users).

Where's the conservative outrage over such wasteful spending and governmental mismanagement? Nowhere in sight, it seems.
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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:16 pm

I'm trying to put in a presidential candidate who will end the drug war.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:19 pm

Obviously the problem is not enough money being spent. More money! More! And more rubber ducks! More!

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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:Obviously the problem is not enough money being spent. More money! More! And more rubber ducks! More!

Image
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I may be young, and that's okay. Since age does not always bring wisdom. I may be stubborn to the point of stupidity; but at least I fight for my beliefs. I may be fooled by a lie; but I can then say I trusted. My heart may get broken however, then I can say I truly loved. With all this said I have lived. :D

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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:22 pm

Ifreann wrote:Obviously the problem is not enough money being spent. More money! More! And more rubber ducks! More!


Clearly, I mean this war hasn't even hit $100 billion yet, unlike the other wars that we're obviously winning.
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:23 pm

Maybe some random Predator drone strikes will help?
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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:23 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Obviously the problem is not enough money being spent. More money! More! And more rubber ducks! More!


Clearly, I mean this war hasn't even hit $100 billion yet, unlike the other wars that we're obviously winning.

Image

Seriously why burn money?
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I may be young, and that's okay. Since age does not always bring wisdom. I may be stubborn to the point of stupidity; but at least I fight for my beliefs. I may be fooled by a lie; but I can then say I trusted. My heart may get broken however, then I can say I truly loved. With all this said I have lived. :D

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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:26 pm

UCUMAY wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
Clearly, I mean this war hasn't even hit $100 billion yet, unlike the other wars that we're obviously winning.

Image

Seriously why burn money?


What else are we supposed to do with it? Invest it in our infrastructure, healthcare and education systems? Madness.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:30 pm

New Manvir wrote:
UCUMAY wrote:Image

Seriously why burn money?


What else are we supposed to do with it? Invest it in our infrastructure, healthcare and education systems? Madness.

If we don't burn the money, druggies will use it to snort up cocaine!

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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:31 pm

Ifreann wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
What else are we supposed to do with it? Invest it in our infrastructure, healthcare and education systems? Madness.

If we don't burn the money, druggies will use it to snort up cocaine!


Exactly, think of the poor currency!
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:32 pm

New Manvir wrote:
UCUMAY wrote:(Image)

Seriously why burn money?


What else are we supposed to do with it? Invest it in our infrastructure, healthcare and education systems? Madness.

Never mind. After all big brother is right.

Image
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I may be young, and that's okay. Since age does not always bring wisdom. I may be stubborn to the point of stupidity; but at least I fight for my beliefs. I may be fooled by a lie; but I can then say I trusted. My heart may get broken however, then I can say I truly loved. With all this said I have lived. :D

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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:35 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If we don't burn the money, druggies will use it to snort up cocaine!


Exactly, think of the poor currency!

It's either that or go to totally coin-based currency, AKA communism!

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Postby Flameswroth » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:44 pm

To be fair, a few of the figures in that story are from before Obaminator's time in office. But then, he hasn't taken drastic steps to dial back that spending either so I suppose that makes him culpable too.

I'm not sure what else we'd want to spend the money on, though? I mean, you'd get people wanting to spend it on the food for pregnant poor moms and children of poor famiies or something. But think about it: who uses more drugs than other demographics? Poor people! That's part of why they're poor - all the money's on drugs! If you stop fighting the Drug War, and use that money to buy those people food, it frees up even more of their money to spend on drugs.

So you're not just letting drug creation thrive by ending the war, you're promoting it by freeing up capital among their target demographic! This cannot happen.

On a slightly more serious note, I think the Drug War is kind of like chemo. The goal is to try and kill the cancer before you kill the person. Obviously it is not healthy to undergo chemo, but sometimes it's all you got. Similarly, it's unhealthy monetarily for us to pursue the war on drugs, but what else are you gonna do?

To extend the metaphor further though, it sounds like the cancer is far too aggresive, and has metastasized (sp?) to pretty much everywhere down there. I think at this point doctors put patients on...what is it...palliative care? Basically we can't kill the cancer, so it's time to sit back on pain meds and wait to die...or in this case, stop all the torturous spending and try to alleviate the negative effects of the drugs rather than the presence of the drugs.
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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:45 pm

Flameswroth wrote:To be fair, a few of the figures in that story are from before Obaminator's time in office. But then, he hasn't taken drastic steps to dial back that spending either so I suppose that makes him culpable too.

I'm not sure what else we'd want to spend the money on, though? I mean, you'd get people wanting to spend it on the food for pregnant poor moms and children of poor famiies or something. But think about it: who uses more drugs than other demographics? Poor people! That's part of why they're poor - all the money's on drugs! If you stop fighting the Drug War, and use that money to buy those people food, it frees up even more of their money to spend on drugs.

So you're not just letting drug creation thrive by ending the war, you're promoting it by freeing up capital among their target demographic! This cannot happen.

On a slightly more serious note, I think the Drug War is kind of like chemo. The goal is to try and kill the cancer before you kill the person. Obviously it is not healthy to undergo chemo, but sometimes it's all you got. Similarly, it's unhealthy monetarily for us to pursue the war on drugs, but what else are you gonna do?

To extend the metaphor further though, it sounds like the cancer is far too aggresive, and has metastasized (sp?) to pretty much everywhere down there. I think at this point doctors put patients on...what is it...palliative care? Basically we can't kill the cancer, so it's time to sit back on pain meds and wait to die...or in this case, stop all the torturous spending and try to alleviate the negative effects of the drugs rather than the presence of the drugs.

:bow:
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I may be young, and that's okay. Since age does not always bring wisdom. I may be stubborn to the point of stupidity; but at least I fight for my beliefs. I may be fooled by a lie; but I can then say I trusted. My heart may get broken however, then I can say I truly loved. With all this said I have lived. :D

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Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:45 pm

Ifreann wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
Exactly, think of the poor currency!

It's either that or go to totally coin-based currency, AKA communism!


My Word! Perish the thought, Ifreann.

We just need to move all financial transactions to plastic. That'll stop those dastardly drug users.
Last edited by New Manvir on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Postby The Floridian Coast » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:46 pm

America - End Drug War + Tax Legal Drugs + Withdraw from Middle East + Cut off foreign aid (yes, even Israel, actually, especially Israel) = debt crisis solved. Are we really too stupid or stubborn of a nation to understand this?
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Postby UCUMAY » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:46 pm

The Floridian Coast wrote:America - End Drug War + Tax Legal Drugs + Withdraw from Middle East + Cut off foreign aid (yes, even Israel, actually, especially Israel) = debt crisis solved. Are we really too stupid or stubborn of a nation to understand this?

Let's put the right person in power, and it might happen.
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Postby Rambhutan » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:50 pm

Wouldn't it be cheaper for the US Government to purchase all the cocaine directly from the Cartels?
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Postby The Floridian Coast » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 pm

Rambhutan wrote:Wouldn't it be cheaper for the US Government to purchase all the cocaine directly from the Cartels?


"I don't wanna live 'cause I'm fed up with it!
but I blame the CIA for importing this shit."

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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:53 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's either that or go to totally coin-based currency, AKA communism!


My Word! Perish the thought, Ifreann.

We just need to move all financial transactions to plastic. That'll stop those dastardly drug users.

Now you're talking. A credit card for every man, woman, child and household pet!


Rambhutan wrote:Wouldn't it be cheaper for the US Government to purchase all the cocaine directly from the Cartels?

Probably much cheaper.

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Postby Call to power » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:54 pm

The reports specifically criticize the government's growing use of U.S. contractors, which were paid more than $3 billion to train local prosecutors and police


talk about pork barrelling! also fetch me something to throw at the person who wrote this source

New Manvir wrote:After spending roughly $3 billion on hiring military contractors to train various police organizations in Mexico and Latin America, as well as $6.1 billion by the Department of Defense on surveillance and intelligence, there is almost nothing to show for it.


the article explicitly points out fighting the Columbian insurgency which is a good thing as anyone who lives in the South American jungle has ants in their pants

The new figures are sure to ignite the debate over whether drug offenders need more treatment instead of being dealt with through the traditional judicial system.


dunno about this finding the US judicial system has been in dire need of an overhaul for a long time so these figures of people being increasingly incarcerated is par the course (arresting people who break the law, am I in Russia!?) that said you will see that there at least appears to be a hinted correlation in the article to other crimes which has always annoyed me about these figures.

Ifreann wrote:Obviously the problem is not enough money being spent. More money! More! And more rubber ducks! More!


wasting money on girly paintball pah! the police need to use live ammunition for all training exercises
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:55 pm

The Floridian Coast wrote:America - End Drug War + Tax Legal Drugs + Withdraw from Middle East + Cut off foreign aid (yes, even Israel, actually, especially Israel) = debt crisis solved. Are we really too stupid or stubborn of a nation to understand this?


It is looking to be that way. You'll run out of money and have to legalize them anyways, eventually.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Postby Naurobia » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:55 pm

I am in favor of legalizing Marijuana since it is the lightest drug and also has health benefits and is the most widely used one. If just marijuana was legal then not only would the drug cartels and drug gangs lose a lot of money and have difficulty functioning which would result in reduced crime. But also it would result in the government making a lot more money on taxes which could go to paying off our national debt, going to healthcare, and education. Not to mention it would also create a ton of jobs which would really help us in this recession. And the jail and prison population would go down and which would make the guards more effective in combating jail and prison violence.Plus with less crime the police wouldn't be as occupied which would make police response time to real crimes like murder, robbery, vandalism, rape, and the like easier to crack down on.
Last edited by Naurobia on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Manvir
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Manvir » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:58 pm

Call to power wrote:
New Manvir wrote:After spending roughly $3 billion on hiring military contractors to train various police organizations in Mexico and Latin America, as well as $6.1 billion by the Department of Defense on surveillance and intelligence, there is almost nothing to show for it.


the article explicitly points out fighting the Columbian insurgency which is a good thing as anyone who lives in the South American jungle has ants in their pants


It also states that much of Colombia's cocaine production moved to Peru, the problem isn't solved, just moved somewhere else.
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Norstal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Norstal » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:59 pm

I hope this means we have to legalize marijuana.

New Manvir wrote:
The Floridian Coast wrote:America - End Drug War + Tax Legal Drugs + Withdraw from Middle East + Cut off foreign aid (yes, even Israel, actually, especially Israel) = debt crisis solved. Are we really too stupid or stubborn of a nation to understand this?


It is looking to be that way. You'll run out of money and have to legalize them anyways, eventually.

You'd be surprised how much people will sacrifice for moral high ground.
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