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Abortion Debate- Fetuses, Periods, and Wanking

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Your opinion on abortion?

Pro-Life
31
21%
Pro-Choice, logically restricted time- and term-wise
53
35%
Pro-Choice but very restricted as far as reasons for abortion
12
8%
Unrestricted Pro-Choice, and I'm dead serious about it
46
31%
Pro-Choice because I think abortion access will make women more sexually available, and for that reason ONLY. Also, I support rape (joke option from the rape thread)
5
3%
I think you should be able to stab your newborn (JOKE OPTION PLEASE)
3
2%
 
Total votes : 150

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Keronians
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Founded: Oct 15, 2010
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Postby Keronians » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:52 pm

Owlrusopia wrote:
... Who told you that a fetus isn't alive...? A fetus is most definitely alive.


Bacteria, viruses, and sperm could all be qualified as being alive. Please don't arrest me for washing my hands.


That's because they ARE alive.

I have no problem with you saying that. What I do have a problem with is false statements like "foetii are not alive". They are. They are also humans. Legally, they are not persons.
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
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Awarded the Bronze Medal for General Debating at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards. Awarded Best New Poster at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards.
It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:54 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Norstal wrote:Yes.

It's a simple concept, really. Kill fetus good. Kill infants bad.


So, the deciding factor is whether or not it passed through a vagina?

That is the absolute stupidest criteria I've ever heard.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but its possible to be born without passing through a vagina...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
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Keronians
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Founded: Oct 15, 2010
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Postby Keronians » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
So, the deciding factor is whether or not it passed through a vagina?

That is the absolute stupidest criteria I've ever heard.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but its possible to be born without passing through a vagina...


Oh, come on. You know perfectly well what he meant.
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
Political compass
Awarded the Bronze Medal for General Debating at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards. Awarded Best New Poster at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards.
It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

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Upper North Yorkshire
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Posts: 232
Founded: Mar 27, 2010
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Postby Upper North Yorkshire » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:57 pm

my postnatal abortion idea never took off

(haha didnt realise that was actually an option)
Last edited by Upper North Yorkshire on Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Dyakovo
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Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Nulono wrote:
Galloism wrote:Since when does a right to live trump another person's bodily integrity?

I need a kidney. You're a match. By the way, the government is going to make you give me one of yours, or you go to prison.

Sound good?

Except you're conflating positive and negative rights.

Not really...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:00 pm

Alixanderia wrote:
Nulono wrote: :palm: :palm: :palm:
But a 22+ week old fetus is viable.

The fetus has a negative right to live, the right to not be killed. The specific method of killing is irrelevant.

It can't be killed. Only removed. It is not a person, and thus has no "right" to use a woman's body against her will.

Even if it was a person it wouldn't have that 'right'...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Dyakovo
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Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:02 pm

Nulono wrote:
Alixanderia wrote:It can't be killed. Only removed. It is not a person, and thus has no "right" to use a woman's body against her will.

A fetus can't be killed? What do you mean by that?

I'm confused by that as well...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Keronians
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Posts: 18231
Founded: Oct 15, 2010
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Postby Keronians » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:07 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Alixanderia wrote:It can't be killed. Only removed. It is not a person, and thus has no "right" to use a woman's body against her will.

Even if it was a person it wouldn't have that 'right'...


I'm more curious about her statement that a foetus is not alive.
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
Political compass
Awarded the Bronze Medal for General Debating at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards. Awarded Best New Poster at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards.
It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

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Dyakovo
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Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:07 pm

Keronians wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but its possible to be born without passing through a vagina...


Oh, come on. You know perfectly well what he meant.

I pretty certain I know what he meant, but considering some of the other ridiculous things posted ITT, I figured better safe than sorry...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Galloism
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Posts: 55699
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:12 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Keronians wrote:
Oh, come on. You know perfectly well what he meant.

I pretty certain I know what he meant, but considering some of the other ridiculous things posted ITT, I figured better safe than sorry...

C-section babies aren't persons.

You born yesterday or something?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Keronians
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Founded: Oct 15, 2010
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Postby Keronians » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:15 pm

Galloism wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:I pretty certain I know what he meant, but considering some of the other ridiculous things posted ITT, I figured better safe than sorry...

C-section babies aren't persons.

You born yesterday or something?


I'm not a person?! :eek:

:p
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
Political compass
Awarded the Bronze Medal for General Debating at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards. Awarded Best New Poster at the 11th Annual Posters' Awards.
It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:15 pm

Owlrusopia wrote:
... Who told you that a fetus isn't alive...? A fetus is most definitely alive.


Bacteria, viruses, and sperm could all be qualified as being alive. Please don't arrest me for washing my hands.

Actually, if I remember correctly from science classes many moons ago, I don't think viruses are considered "alive."
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:17 pm

Keronians wrote:
Galloism wrote:C-section babies aren't persons.

You born yesterday or something?


I'm not a person?! :eek:

:p

Come on nonperson, off to the labor camp with you.

Oh, uh, I'll be coming along too.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Dyakovo
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Founded: Nov 13, 2007
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:19 pm

Keronians wrote:
Galloism wrote:C-section babies aren't persons.

You born yesterday or something?

I'm not a person?! :eek:

No, you're not. Though that has nothing to do with you being a zipper baby...
*nods*
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:21 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Keronians wrote:I'm not a person?! :eek:

No, you're not. Though that has nothing to do with you being a zipper baby...
*nods*

Zipper baby?

I like that.

*writes that down*
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Owlrusopia
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Founded: Apr 16, 2011
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Postby Owlrusopia » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:26 pm

Actually, if I remember correctly from science classes many moons ago, I don't think viruses are considered "alive."


"I don't think" being the key phrase in your statement. It's a matter of definition in the case of the virus. It's most certainly alive when it has successfully infected you. I might rephrase and say that "am I a murderer for having my immune system kill a virus?" to be completely accurate.

Either way, you dodged the actual point there. A lot of things are alive. Killing them isn't the same as killing a human being. You're also missing the bigger picture(s), wherein we are in an overpopulated world getting even more overpopulated as we speak; with the vast majority of inhabitants being poor, and a massive amount of people without a proper water source or enough food to disqualify them from the label "starving" according to the UN.

"You're not a person 'till you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:36 pm

Owlrusopia wrote:
Actually, if I remember correctly from science classes many moons ago, I don't think viruses are considered "alive."


"I don't think" being the key phrase in your statement. It's a matter of definition in the case of the virus. It's most certainly alive when it has successfully infected you. I might rephrase and say that "am I a murderer for having my immune system kill a virus?" to be completely accurate.

Either way, you dodged the actual point there. A lot of things are alive. Killing them isn't the same as killing a human being. You're also missing the bigger picture(s), wherein we are in an overpopulated world getting even more overpopulated as we speak; with the vast majority of inhabitants being poor, and a massive amount of people without a proper water source or enough food to disqualify them from the label "starving" according to the UN.

"You're not a person 'till you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks

Boy you showed whoever you were talking to with all that. Give yourself a cookie, then give me one.

By the way, I looked it up. Feelings are mixed. Some say viruses are a chemical compound, while others say it "straddles the fence of life". Not the greatest sources of good argument.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39319
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:49 pm

Owlrusopia wrote:
Actually, if I remember correctly from science classes many moons ago, I don't think viruses are considered "alive."


"I don't think" being the key phrase in your statement. It's a matter of definition in the case of the virus. It's most certainly alive when it has successfully infected you. I might rephrase and say that "am I a murderer for having my immune system kill a virus?" to be completely accurate.

Either way, you dodged the actual point there. A lot of things are alive. Killing them isn't the same as killing a human being. You're also missing the bigger picture(s), wherein we are in an overpopulated world getting even more overpopulated as we speak; with the vast majority of inhabitants being poor, and a massive amount of people without a proper water source or enough food to disqualify them from the label "starving" according to the UN.

"You're not a person 'till you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks


I actually have high hopes for humanity. So high, in fact, that I dont think we need to resort to abortions to keep the population in check. I honestly believe there will be a paradigm shift in our lifetime that will change the world.

Galloism wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:I pretty certain I know what he meant, but considering some of the other ridiculous things posted ITT, I figured better safe than sorry...

C-section babies aren't persons.

You born yesterday or something?


I know this hot girl in my class who was a C-section. *contemplates raping her for teh awesomeness* /notfuckingserious]
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
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Sivonaa
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Posts: 241
Founded: Jun 30, 2009
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Postby Sivonaa » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:52 pm

Bottle wrote:
Grenartia wrote:I never said it wasn't ok not to have sex. I'll be the last person to say that. I'm just saying take some damn responsibility. If you can't afford/don't want a kid, put the woman on the pill, and make the dude wear a condom.

1 oz. Prevention = 1 lb. Cure

Its that fucking simple.

You gonna provide contraception for free? One in six Americans will struggle with hunger, my friend, so let's not bullshit about this. I can buy a week's worth of groceries for the same amount as a box of condoms. When I was on the Pill, it cost me about a buck a pill, and that's not counting the routine doctor's visits I was required to go to in order to keep getting the 'script refilled.



well it costs a hell of a lot more to get an abortion buddy, I don't want to here your complaining. If you cant afford to have a baby then take an alternative route. If you can't take that route that just master bathe!!!!!
President of Sivonaa, Vlade Kuts

DEFCON[1][2][4][5]- Military level at low, military preparation at a neutral stance.

Armed forces of Sivonaa-
Air Force- 401,568 Pilots
Navy- 509,888 Sailors
Army- 1,002,560 Soldiers
Marine Corps- 400,000 Marines
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55699
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:53 pm

Sivonaa wrote:If you can't take that route that just master bathe!!!!!

Some of us don't have a whirlpool.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39319
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:57 pm

Galloism wrote:
Sivonaa wrote:If you can't take that route that just master bathe!!!!!

Some of us don't have a whirlpool.


:rofl: I so need to zig that.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo

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Wikipedia and Universe
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Posts: 3897
Founded: Jul 30, 2009
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Postby Wikipedia and Universe » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:22 pm

Hallistar wrote:
Wikipedia and Universe wrote:In the hopes of stopping a threadjack here, I have made yet another abortion debate thread. Basically, the debate is about whether fetuses are real people, or whether by that logic if wanking and periods are murder, etc, etc, etc.

Here are the posts:

ThoughtsTM?


I have mixed views on abortion, I think that while it should be allowed, it should be heavily restricted, perhaps less restrictions if the population skyrockets even more but the way doctors abort some of these babies including sticking a tube in them and sucking out their brains, butchering it flat out, etc, is just sickening.
So you'd support logical term limits, ethics/methodical regulations, and more safeguards against conflicts of interest?

I personally think that after a certain period after which the unborn can survive outside the uterus, what is now referred to as "viability", a time window should be taken allowing greater viability and an artificial birth or "live abortion" be performed with the goal of life preservation, both of the bearer and the fetus. After this point it would be incubated and if not wanted then parental rights can be signed away.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get pissed, they'll be a mile away- and barefoot.
Proud Member and Co-Founder of the MDISC Alliance
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Bottle wrote:This is not rocket surgery, folks.
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Nulono
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Founded: Jun 09, 2009
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Postby Nulono » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:29 am

Owlrusopia wrote:
... Who told you that a fetus isn't alive...? A fetus is most definitely alive.


Bacteria, viruses, and sperm could all be qualified as being alive. Please don't arrest me for washing my hands.

:palm:
Bacteria and sperm are alive. Viruses are not. None of these are human beings.

Dyakovo wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
So, the deciding factor is whether or not it passed through a vagina?

That is the absolute stupidest criteria I've ever heard.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but its possible to be born without passing through a vagina...

Don't be a smartass. You know what he meant.

Dyakovo wrote:
Nulono wrote:Except you're conflating positive and negative rights.

Not really...

:blink: Really?
Do you even know the difference between positive and negative rights?

Owlrusopia wrote:
Actually, if I remember correctly from science classes many moons ago, I don't think viruses are considered "alive."


"I don't think" being the key phrase in your statement. It's a matter of definition in the case of the virus. It's most certainly alive when it has successfully infected you. I might rephrase and say that "am I a murderer for having my immune system kill a virus?" to be completely accurate.

Either way, you dodged the actual point there. A lot of things are alive. Killing them isn't the same as killing a human being. You're also missing the bigger picture(s), wherein we are in an overpopulated world getting even more overpopulated as we speak; with the vast majority of inhabitants being poor, and a massive amount of people without a proper water source or enough food to disqualify them from the label "starving" according to the UN.

"You're not a person 'till you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks

1. No, even inside you the virus is not alive.
2. The fetus is a human being.
3. Why not kill born people to fix overpopulation.
4. Teenagers are likely not in your phonebook. Are we not persons?


Galloism wrote:
Owlrusopia wrote:
"I don't think" being the key phrase in your statement. It's a matter of definition in the case of the virus. It's most certainly alive when it has successfully infected you. I might rephrase and say that "am I a murderer for having my immune system kill a virus?" to be completely accurate.

Either way, you dodged the actual point there. A lot of things are alive. Killing them isn't the same as killing a human being. You're also missing the bigger picture(s), wherein we are in an overpopulated world getting even more overpopulated as we speak; with the vast majority of inhabitants being poor, and a massive amount of people without a proper water source or enough food to disqualify them from the label "starving" according to the UN.

"You're not a person 'till you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks

Boy you showed whoever you were talking to with all that. Give yourself a cookie, then give me one.

By the way, I looked it up. Feelings are mixed. Some say viruses are a chemical compound, while others say it "straddles the fence of life". Not the greatest sources of good argument.

Whomever. And the current consensus is that a virus is simply a protein strand capable of co-opting living cells to replicate itself.


Sivonaa wrote:
Bottle wrote:You gonna provide contraception for free? One in six Americans will struggle with hunger, my friend, so let's not bullshit about this. I can buy a week's worth of groceries for the same amount as a box of condoms. When I was on the Pill, it cost me about a buck a pill, and that's not counting the routine doctor's visits I was required to go to in order to keep getting the 'script refilled.



well it costs a hell of a lot more to get an abortion buddy, I don't want to here your complaining. If you cant afford to have a baby then take an alternative route. If you can't take that route that just master bathe!!!!!

Huh? :?

Hallistar wrote:I have mixed views on abortion, I think that while it should be allowed, it should be heavily restricted, perhaps less restrictions if the population skyrockets even more but the way doctors abort some of these babies including sticking a tube in them and sucking out their brains, butchering it flat out, etc, is just sickening.

Does it really matter how someone is killed? Are there methods of abortion you prefer? (BTW, there are methods of abortion that are crueler than PBA.)
Wikipedia and Universe wrote:
Hallistar wrote:
I have mixed views on abortion, I think that while it should be allowed, it should be heavily restricted, perhaps less restrictions if the population skyrockets even more but the way doctors abort some of these babies including sticking a tube in them and sucking out their brains, butchering it flat out, etc, is just sickening.
So you'd support logical term limits, ethics/methodical regulations, and more safeguards against conflicts of interest?

I personally think that after a certain period after which the unborn can survive outside the uterus, what is now referred to as "viability", a time window should be taken allowing greater viability and an artificial birth or "live abortion" be performed with the goal of life preservation, both of the bearer and the fetus. After this point it would be incubated and if not wanted then parental rights can be signed away.

Viability varies based on the available medical technology, which varies from location to location and from time period to time period. Why should it determine basic human rights?
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent

The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.

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