Hey, politicians! Want to create jobs!

[Sibirsky]

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

So, we need to put regulations on businesses to stop outsourcing, yes?

No.

[Sibirsky]

...because, really, what America needs now is shitty jobs, especially shitty jobs that will vanish to some cheaper place sooner or later. That's the short answer.

The longer answer is that labor costs are only half of the issue. Raw labor costs just say how much workers get paid. What one really cares about is the ratio of the value of what the workers make to how much they get paid, what economists call "unit labor costs". Highly paid but very productive workers have low unit labor costs. This what makes German industry a powerhouse: German workers are some of the world's most expensive. They're also some of the most skilled and most productive.

These are the kinds of jobs America needs. Fiddling with the minimum wage does squat to get them. What America needs to get them is better education (which means lower unit cost education as well -- and please see above before you start screaming about "union breaking"), better job training, and better labor-management relations, among other things.

America and education? Now there's an oxymoron...

[The Black Forrest]

America and education? Now there's an oxymoron...

It is going down.

I was listening to a parent with kids in a charter school and it was not heartening for all the talk of saving education by charters.......

[Sibirsky]

mabye it was that tsunami, earthquake, and nuclear reactor meltdown that slowed 'em down!

Derp

I'm talking about the Lost Decade. And post 2005.

The earthquake and tsunami hit this year.

Japan's lost decade is blow way out of proportion. It has prospered during the lost decade. It prospered lower because it chose lower unemployment, over faster rising wages, and it's population has declined.

[Sibirsky]

But America is already a highly educated nation, certainly a world class country.

I'm thinking no.

Sweden is a highly educated country. America is not.

Well, it would depend on your definition as well, I guess.

We do ok. You can use with less flamebaiting.

[Trotskylvania]

Why? Greed is just one facet of human behavior, and it can be accented or minimized, depending on the social relations that a person is socialized in.

But even if that were not the case, why should that mean communism is impossible? It clearly isn't, since prior to the rise of states and then private property, early humans lived in communistic social arrangements for thousands of years. But when critics of communism talk about human "greed", they invariably are not talking about the actual definition of greed: the propensity to take actions for their own benefit that are harmful to other, but rather to simply state that "People like things".

So? Having a classless society in no way impedes people's ability to have things.

Because people aren't satisfied. We have a desire for more. And not just to be at an equal level, but to be able to be, so to speak, superior to others.

The majority of people are content with being able to pay their mortgage, have a decent job, and free time to do things they find fun. Those who wish to rule can go hang.

[Moral Libertarians]

No economies are in recession

I qualified that statement by mentioning there were a few I couldn't remember the names of... but I set myself up for that one, I admit.

It is going down.

I was listening to a parent with kids in a charter school and it was not heartening for all the talk of saving education by charters.......

Same in Britain... is it some kind of requirement these days that to be an advanced economy, you have to be a rich country and have a terrible education system compared to industrialising countries.

[Sibirsky]

Test scores are just random numbers, imo. Sure, the Japanese and even the Swedish have progress in science and technology along with its consistent high scores, but in the end, they're just numbers.

Besides, I highly doubt private schools/voucher system would fix this.

No, of course not.

I'm just saying that American education is far from perfect. Or even good when it comes to developed nations.

No, you're not even remotely saying that. You're saying...

America and education? Now there's an oxymoron...

Which is a god damn fucking flame. The United States has some of the best educational institutions in the world. A very high literacy score. Decent test scores. Could we do better? Of course! But we're not doing even remotely as bad as you're tone suggests.

Meanwhile in Spain, the unemployment rate is 21%.

[Sibirsky]

the simple answer to drive wages up is to increase competition for workers, it happened after the black death and we can do it again for we have the technology.

Yes gentlemen I am suggesting that we kill the poor.

cant we kill the rich and take their stuff instead?

You can, but that would not be productive. Not long term anyway.

[The Left-Libertarian Hippies]

Im totally opposed to lowering the minimum wage...i think we should raise the minimum wage and at the same time lower buisness taxes...we also need an actual public investment in our communities (not the phony stimulus or bailouts). Lowering the minimum wage will only hurt the working class. Lowering taxes for businesses, breaking up monopolies, increasing labor and enviornmental regulations, and creating a stable co-operative (not private, not public) sector will all help the economy in the long run. I know you usually dont hear a progressive like myself wanting to lower business taxes, but as long as business profits go to workers and to creating better services, I see no problem with it. Raising the minimum wage has also been shown to make employment more attractive and has actually raised employment in many states. China is getting ready for its housing market to collapse anyway...i dont think massive economic growth (like China has experienced) is as important as stable and progressive growth that puts the well being and profits of the average citizen and average business before the profits of the wealthy.

[Sibirsky]

The problem is that in addition to the wage american workers expect, american regulations, labor tax mandates, and corporate taxes have driven up the cost of American goods and services. The advantage for companys to buy foreign products, or use foreign service workers, is cheaper products in the American marketplace.

In the past, the american government gained nearly all of its revenue from tariffs, in fact it had the highest tariffs in the world during the early 20th century. Mind you payroll taxes would still need to be collected to pay for Roosevet, Johnson, and Obama's social welfare programs, but it would raise the price of foreign goods, so that American manufacturing can better compete on American markets. The chineese may not like the idea, nor would people want to pay $300 for a pair of shoes from Boston, but it is a plan.

The best plan that I have heard so far is the fair tax. Studies have projected that eliminating all federal taxes, and replacing them with a 23% sales tax on all goods and services should be more than enough to to cover all government spending at the rate to GDP that the government was spending a two years ago. The revenue generated was shown to be sufficient enough to also provide a monthly rebate for all the tax a person expected to spend on necessitys, nearly $300 per month per person. The lack of corporate taxes in this plan would be more than enough incentive for companys to return to the US. Foreign companys would even move here to tax advantage of the lack of corporate taxes, creating many jobs.

Subsidizing exports at the expense of everything else is not the way out.

[Sibirsky]

Another idea; we could nationalize business, remove the profit factor, and make it so the government has the make 300 million plus people happy. That would make them much less likly to take obscene risks with money that isen't theres, keep the working enviorment sound, and pay a decent wage and charge a decent price.

[Sibirsky]

Another idea; we could nationalize business, remove the profit factor, and make it so the government has the make 300 million plus people happy. That would make them much less likly to take obscene risks with money that isen't theres, keep the working enviorment sound, and pay a decent wage and charge a decent price.

Nationalization is a bad idea, ask the Ukraine. What we need is very targeted taxes and tariffs that both ensure the company has to hire Americans, and anyone who tries to undercut the ones hiring Americans will be forced to sell at the same rate.

Ukraine is game to you?

We don't need taxes or tariffs. It won't work on the whole.

[Demen]

And then more workers will be exploited, like they are in Thailand, China, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc....
In short, lowering the minimum wage is bad. One is barely able to live off of minimum wage, let alone a family.

Then the entire family should get jobs

... Are you fucking kidding me?



That has to be a nomination for the "most naive, wishful and idiotic comment of the year awards". There isn't one? You sir, just fucking made an award.

[Sibirsky]

The government cant create jobs.

The Government can and does create jobs. What it can't do is create very many long-term jobs, profitably.

It has to destroy jobs to create them. It creates no net jobs. In fact it causes job losses.

[Demen]

...because, really, what America needs now is shitty jobs, especially shitty jobs that will vanish to some cheaper place sooner or later. That's the short answer.

The longer answer is that labor costs are only half of the issue. Raw labor costs just say how much workers get paid. What one really cares about is the ratio of the value of what the workers make to how much they get paid, what economists call "unit labor costs". Highly paid but very productive workers have low unit labor costs. This what makes German industry a powerhouse: German workers are some of the world's most expensive. They're also some of the most skilled and most productive.

These are the kinds of jobs America needs. Fiddling with the minimum wage does squat to get them. What America needs to get them is better education (which means lower unit cost education as well -- and please see above before you start screaming about "union breaking"), better job training, and better labor-management relations, among other things.

America and education? Now there's an oxymoron...

I could say the same about you...

[Moral Libertarians]

...i dont think massive economic growth (like China has experienced) is as important as stable and progressive growth that puts the well being and profits of the average citizen and average business before the profits of the wealthy.

Tell that to China's middle class...

Raising the minimum wage has also been shown to make employment more attractive and has actually raised employment in many states.

How is raising business' costs meant to help the economy grow and create jobs? Forget minimum wages, education is key.

[Sibirsky]

The government cant create jobs.

Of course it can(see post office if you want and example); it just can't make as many when its held to a standard entirly different from business. If the government could build a factory, or run a shipping company, or anything else that private sector people usually do, they'd be able to do it more efficently (also see Tennesee Vally Authority). The issue the government is also required to do the nine-million and five things that can't reasonably done at a profit with the wage the companies give out. Essentially, the government hiring with taxes shows the true level that corporations could hire at, if they had the guts to actually pay people enough so they could do some of those nine-million and five things at a profit without breaking everybody's bank

The government does not respond to supply and demand. It creates unnecessary and inefficient jobs. It destroys jobs to create other jobs.

[Moral Libertarians]

It creates unnecessary and inefficient jobs.

Not all government jobs are unnecessary (although most are). If you ask me, the American government is a bad example of how to manage a free market society, torn as it is between tax-averse Reps and slightly socialist Dems. Get that government cut right down to the bone!

[The Left-Libertarian Hippies]

"More than 75 per cent of the country's middle class remain in the $2 to $4 daily consumption bracket, the lower end of the range of $2 to $20, leaving them at risk of falling back into poverty in the event of a major economic shock," the bank said.

Bet u liked to skip over that part...china's "middle class" still has very few rights and most of them live on the edge of poverty...still more evidence that neoliberalism fails or works only for a short time....

[Kongra]

The United States has some of the best educational institutions in the world. A very high literacy score. Decent test scores. Could we do better? Of course! But we're not doing even remotely as bad as you're tone suggests.

The American education system is in a similar conundrum as health care. It is absolutely awesome for those who occupy the correct strata of American society. However, there are jobs available that aren't getting filled because of a skills gap in mathematics.¹ There are also 1 in 4 military applicants who can't pass the basic assessment test.² Add in the escalating costs of university tuition being propelled by an $830 billion credit bubble³ and you have a sector of society being cut out or heavily burdened by the glorious American education system. When America is expected to compete by out-skilling international labour, this is very bad news and your tone suggests otherwise.

[Moral Libertarians]

"More than 75 per cent of the country's middle class remain in the $2 to $4 daily consumption bracket, the lower end of the range of $2 to $20, leaving them at risk of falling back into poverty in the event of a major economic shock," the bank said.

Bet u liked to skip over that part...china's "middle class" still has very few rights and most of them live on the edge of poverty...still more evidence that neoliberalism fails or works only for a short time....

That sentence applies to India, not China...

And anyway, the reasons China has grown over the last decades are massive education investment and an opening up of it's markets to foreign firms - more capitalism, not less.

[Sibirsky]

The government cant create jobs.

Of course it can. The public sector?

Of course, it's not very good at maintaining good long-term prospects...

It has to destroy jobs to create jobs.

[Sibirsky]

The government cant create jobs.

So? Who reviews my tax returns?
Who makes the gear of the military?
....

The private sector. Both of those sectors are massive drains.

[Trotskylvania]

The Government can and does create jobs. What it can't do is create very many long-term jobs, profitably.

It has to destroy jobs to create them. It creates no net jobs. In fact it causes job losses.

I guess the Tennessee Valley Authority is just a statist fairy tale then