Hey, politicians! Want to create jobs!

[Libertarian Mesa]

Every time you look at the news, all you see is some politician talk about creating jobs. They do not realize that many jobs have been assigned to Asia, where labor is cheap?

I would like to know what the denizens of Nationstates think is the solution to this. Personally, I would fight fire with fire. If the labor is cheap there, then the minimum wage should be reduced here. I know it sounds scary, but companies will produce more (with more employees) and make more profit, even if products are sold at a lower price. And since they benefit more, prices will plummet, which correspond to the reduction of wages.

What does everyone else think?

[Valtieres]

Americans are too squeamish about making less to do these jobs. If you look at china, the middle class is an emerging force, while the American middle class is a declining force. One cannot immitate the policy of a different country and expect magic.

[Territania]

I partially agree with you, but we should also replace welfare with jobfare... instead of the unemployed relying on some government beauracrat for their livelyhood, they can get a job and WORK FOR A LIVING!

[Ashmoria]

no

we cant compete by lowering the minimum wage.

$1/ hour is too much to be able to compete.

[Auremena]

And then more workers will be exploited, like they are in Thailand, China, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc....
In short, lowering the minimum wage is bad. One is barely able to live off of minimum wage, let alone a family.

[Territania]

And then more workers will be exploited, like they are in Thailand, China, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc....
In short, lowering the minimum wage is bad. One is barely able to live off of minimum wage, let alone a family.

Then the entire family should get jobs

[Keronians]

You can't compete with Asia and Africa. Period. Deal with it.

Even if the minimum wage was $1 a day, you'd still be slightly behind places like China and India in terms of output.

Also, outsourcing does not really cause many jobs to be lost. The balance is more or less the same. Wait while I look for a sauce.

[Keronians]

And then more workers will be exploited, like they are in Thailand, China, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc....
In short, lowering the minimum wage is bad. One is barely able to live off of minimum wage, let alone a family.

Then the entire family should get jobs

Children as well?

EDIT: So, change the minimum working age as well, then, right? All for the good of the people, amirite?

[Andonam]

Every time you look at the news, all you see is some politician talk about creating jobs. They do not realize that many jobs have been assigned to Asia, where labor is cheap?

I would like to know what the denizens of Nationstates think is the solution to this. Personally, I would fight fire with fire. If the labor is cheap there, then the minimum wage should be reduced here. I know it sounds scary, but companies will produce more (with more employees) and make more profit, even if products are sold at a lower price. And since they benefit more, prices will plummet, which correspond to the reduction of wages.

What does everyone else think?

But then how are they going to make a profit on their goods, if they have nobody to sell it to.

The economic cycle works like this. You make the goods where its cheap and sell it where there is money. Money is in the US, and at the moment the laborer at least gets survivable wages. However, if you cut down minimum wage to almost nothing, then people don't have money, so they can't buy the goods they used to. Hence, the company has to accept a lower profit(Because nobody else is going to buy the goods at the 200-300% profit companies make on most light goods), stocks collapse, and company has less money and hence has to fire people. Or, even if they don't, why shouldn't they just pocket the extra money for themselves? "Trickle down" economics is too full of "what ifs" to be a viable theory, and your idea is worth just as much as it puts an even greater disproportionate share of the wealth into the highest elcons of society who make more, get taxed a lower rate (therefore, the country gets a net tax revenue deduction), and eventually make it so communism does come.

[Territania]

:rofl:

You can't compete with Asia and Africa. Period. Deal with it.

Even if the minimum wage was $1 a day, you'd still be slightly behind places like China and India in terms of output.

Also, outsourcing does not really cause many jobs to be lost. The balance is more or less the same. Wait while I look for a sauce.

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

[Norstal]

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

How is outsourcing making them more powerful?

[Keronians]

:rofl:

You can't compete with Asia and Africa. Period. Deal with it.

Even if the minimum wage was $1 a day, you'd still be slightly behind places like China and India in terms of output.

Also, outsourcing does not really cause many jobs to be lost. The balance is more or less the same. Wait while I look for a sauce.

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

The economy should be the means to the end: satisfying and pleasing the populace, raising living standards, etc. not an end unto itself which causes harm to the populace.

[Andonam]

I agree with you, but we should also replace welfare with jobfare... instead of the unemployed relying on some government beauracrat for their livelyhood, they can get a job and WORK FOR A LIVING!

News Flash! They can only get a job if your precious "wealth creators" (what you call the wealth manipulators and wealth retainers) actually make and give them a job. Its not like they can just go pick up a plot of land somewhere and start farming it anymore.

[Territania]

Then the entire family should get jobs

Children as well?

EDIT: So, change the minimum working age as well, then, right? All for the good of the people, amirite?

Yes and no. Mabye change the age to 10 from 14 and restrict the types of jobs people 10-20 can legally do

[Andonam]

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

So, we need to put regulations on businesses to stop outsourcing, yes?

[Territania]

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

How is outsourcing making them more powerful?

creating jobs... duh

[Keronians]

Children as well?

EDIT: So, change the minimum working age as well, then, right? All for the good of the people, amirite?

Yes and no. Mabye change the age to 10 from 14 and restrict the types of jobs people 10-20 can legally do

This does not benefit the people.

I don't know about you, but I see the economy as the means to the end: a happy populace, not an end unto itself.

[Northwest Slobovia]

...because, really, what America needs now is shitty jobs, especially shitty jobs that will vanish to some cheaper place sooner or later. That's the short answer.

The longer answer is that labor costs are only half of the issue. Raw labor costs just say how much workers get paid. What one really cares about is the ratio of the value of what the workers make to how much they get paid, what economists call "unit labor costs". Highly paid but very productive workers have low unit labor costs. This what makes German industry a powerhouse: German workers are some of the world's most expensive. They're also some of the most skilled and most productive.

These are the kinds of jobs America needs. Fiddling with the minimum wage does squat to get them. What America needs to get them is better education (which means lower unit cost education as well -- and please see above before you start screaming about "union breaking"), better job training, and better labor-management relations, among other things.

[Keronians]

How is outsourcing making them more powerful?

creating jobs... duh

Just having jobs isn't the key to success.

Japan, for example, has unemployment well below 8% (I think it's around 5-6%), but it isn't prospering.

[Libertarian Mesa]

Every time you look at the news, all you see is some politician talk about creating jobs. They do not realize that many jobs have been assigned to Asia, where labor is cheap?

I would like to know what the denizens of Nationstates think is the solution to this. Personally, I would fight fire with fire. If the labor is cheap there, then the minimum wage should be reduced here. I know it sounds scary, but companies will produce more (with more employees) and make more profit, even if products are sold at a lower price. And since they benefit more, prices will plummet, which correspond to the reduction of wages.

What does everyone else think?

But then how are they going to make a profit on their goods, if they have nobody to sell it to.

The economic cycle works like this. You make the goods where its cheap and sell it where there is money. Money is in the US, and at the moment the laborer at least gets survivable wages. However, if you cut down minimum wage to almost nothing, then people don't have money, so they can't buy the goods they used to. Hence, the company has to accept a lower profit(Because nobody else is going to buy the goods at the 200-300% profit companies make on most light goods), stocks collapse, and company has less money and hence has to fire people. Or, even if they don't, why shouldn't they just pocket the extra money for themselves? "Trickle down" economics is too full of "what ifs" to be a viable theory, and your idea is worth just as much as it puts an even greater disproportionate share of the wealth into the highest elcons of society who make more, get taxed a lower rate (therefore, the country gets a net tax revenue deduction), and eventually make it so communism does come.

But low wages, which will sell for less. People will afford it.

And then more workers will be exploited, like they are in Thailand, China, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc....
In short, lowering the minimum wage is bad. One is barely able to live off of minimum wage, let alone a family.

Salaries will be reduced, quality of life will not.

[Territania]

mostly, yeah. But what outsourcing does in create jobs in foreign lands, making them more powerful, therefore, we cannot compete as long as we outsource

So, we need to put regulations on businesses to stop outsourcing, yes?

sort of. We need to find a way to encourage companies to keep jobs here without too much interference in the free market. Therein lies the problem.

[Keronians]

...because, really, what America needs now is shitty jobs, especially shitty jobs that will vanish to some cheaper place sooner or later. That's the short answer.

The longer answer is that labor costs are only half of the issue. Raw labor costs just say how much workers get paid. What one really cares about is the ratio of the value of what the workers make to how much they get paid, what economists call "unit labor costs". Highly paid but very productive workers have low unit labor costs. This what makes German industry a powerhouse: German workers are some of the world's most expensive. They're also some of the most skilled and most productive.

These are the kinds of jobs America needs. Fiddling with the minimum wage does squat to get them. What America needs to get them is better education (which means lower unit cost education as well -- and please see above before you start screaming about "union breaking"), better job training, and better labor-management relations, among other things.

America and education? Now there's an oxymoron...

[Territania]

creating jobs... duh

Just having jobs isn't the key to success.

Japan, for example, has unemployment well below 8% (I think it's around 5-6%), but it isn't prospering.

mabye it was that tsunami, earthquake, and nuclear reactor meltdown that slowed 'em down!

Derp

[Wienholdland]

Pay 10 million people to dig holes, and then pay 10 million others to fill them back in.

Using the same logic that some "economists" do, who believe that wars get us out of recessions, that would also work.

[Keronians]

Just having jobs isn't the key to success.

Japan, for example, has unemployment well below 8% (I think it's around 5-6%), but it isn't prospering.

mabye it was that tsunami, earthquake, and nuclear reactor meltdown that slowed 'em down!

Derp

I'm talking about the Lost Decade. And post 2005.

The earthquake and tsunami hit this year.