Male reproductive rights?

[The Parkus Empire]

Plenty, since it is her body being used. Now after she gives birth, and she wants to give it up for adoption, you're well within your rights to say, "No, I don't think so," and take the child into your legal custody while she sends you a check every month to help take care of her/him.

So women have all right in the world to be a bitch to somebody who would be more than willing ot take the child because they don't want to deal with it? To put things bluntly, that is fucked.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "be a bitch".

[Peoples New Norway]

I'm serious.
The man makes the decisions, no sex before marriage, its evil to be gay, its wrong to be a pedophile, believe in everything your parents tell you, blah blah blah just a bunch of ancient beliefs.

[Euronion]

In the end it is always the woman's choice. Anyone who believes otherwise is either a rapist or a person who hangs on to ancient morals.

I know right, GOD FORBID MEN EVER HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE THEIR CHILD FROM MURDER, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE MAJORITY OF THE WOMAN POPULATION THAT MAKES THEM RAPISTS, that reminds me of one thread

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=113909&hilit=this+woman+thinks+that+every+man+is+a+rapist

[The Parkus Empire]

I'm serious.
The man makes the decisions, no sex before marriage, its evil to be gay, its wrong to be a pedophile, believe in everything your parents tell you, blah blah blah just a bunch of ancient beliefs.

I'm serious.
I doubt you're serious, since you've just shot off about a bunch of controversial shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[The Kings Council]

Like...

every asexual bacterium, every asexual plant, every hermaphroditic species (earthworms, off the top of my head) etc.

ok. good i thought you were going to say human which is the only relevant species in this conversation. we are talking about male(human) reproductive rights.

[The Parkus Empire]

In the end it is always the woman's choice. Anyone who believes otherwise is either a rapist or a person who hangs on to ancient morals.

I know right, GOD FORBID MEN EVER HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE THEIR CHILD FROM MURDER, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE MAJORITY OF THE WOMAN POPULATION THAT MAKES THEM RAPISTS, that reminds me of one thread

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=113909&hilit=this+woman+thinks+that+every+man+is+a+rapist

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic, mate.

[Euronion]

I'm serious.
The man makes the decisions, no sex before marriage, its evil to be gay, its wrong to be a pedophile, believe in everything your parents tell you, blah blah blah just a bunch of ancient beliefs.

trollollollolloll

[DaWoad]

because it's her body. You do not get to for a person to give you a kidney, you do not get to force a woman to bear your child, it's that simple. If you don't want to have a kid, and you're a male, either don't have sex, get a vasectomy or come up with a legal agreement with your SO.

Now, for the converse, what if I want the child, want to be a father, and the woman decides to kill it because she doesn't want to be a mother? Where is the justice in that?

it's . . .her. . . .body. If you want a child, go find someone capable and willing to have a child with you. Again, you don't get to enslave a woman because you want her to have your child. Your argument can be logically extended to allow for, for example, rape. What if you really want to have a child with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, I mean you really love this potential child where's the justice in not being able to rape the woman?

do you not see the problem here?

Sucks doesn't it. But hey, that's what men do.

You don't want that. A simple procedure will eliminate it......

Actually, I do want children. I also am not pro-choice, so idealy neither party would have a say in whether the child is to be born.

that would be enslaving the woman.

[The Kings Council]

A man has the right to choose to put on a condom if he doesn't want the woman exercising her reproductive rights. That's my opinion as a man, the whole "male reproductive rights" thing is one of the weakest anti-choice arguments and certainly one of the most irritating.

so i guess your against child support too

[DaWoad]

every asexual bacterium, every asexual plant, every hermaphroditic species (earthworms, off the top of my head) etc.

ok. good i thought you were going to say human which is the only relevant species in this conversation. we are talking about male(human) reproductive rights.

hey, he didn't specify and I did say many species before. . .how could you think I was talking about humans???

[Hathradic States]

So women have all right in the world to be a bitch to somebody who would be more than willing ot take the child because they don't want to deal with it? To put things bluntly, that is fucked.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "be a bitch".

As in "be excessively cruel". Can you think of any a crueler torture than to be prepared for fatherhood, to be prepared to love and cherish your child. To be willing to marry the mother, only to have said mother decide one day that she didn't want it and she gets an abortion. To me, that is one hell of a bitch move. I watched it happen to one of my friends, and he was nearly destroyed by it. To me, that is not right, and it is not just.

[Euronion]

Now, for the converse, what if I want the child, want to be a father, and the woman decides to kill it because she doesn't want to be a mother? Where is the justice in that?

it's . . .her. . . .body. If you want a child, go find someone capable and willing to have a child with you. Again, you don't get to enslave a woman because you want her to have your child. Your argument can be logically extended to allow for, for example, rape. What if you really want to have a child with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, I mean you really love this potential child where's the justice in not being able to rape the woman?

do you not see the problem here?

Actually, I do want children. I also am not pro-choice, so idealy neither party would have a say in whether the child is to be born.

that would be enslaving the woman.

then shouldn't an impartial part decide, if it is rape, the impartial party will favor the mother, if the woman just doesn't feel like it, the father is responsible and capable of raising the child, then the impartial party will favor the male

[Naurobia]

We don't have any reproductive rights except for giving consent to sex.

[The Black Forrest]

A man has the right to choose to put on a condom if he doesn't want the woman exercising her reproductive rights. That's my opinion as a man, the whole "male reproductive rights" thing is one of the weakest anti-choice arguments and certainly one of the most irritating.

so i guess your against child support too

Ahhh what?

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

Please elaborate on what you mean by "be a bitch".

As in "be excessively cruel". Can you think of any a crueler torture than to be prepared for fatherhood, to be prepared to love and cherish your child. To be willing to marry the mother, only to have said mother decide one day that she didn't want it and she gets an abortion. To me, that is one hell of a bitch move. I watched it happen to one of my friends, and he was nearly destroyed by it. To me, that is not right, and it is not just.

Yes I can. Forcing women to either endure nine months of pregnancy or face the coat hanger option. That is true cruelty. ;]

[Avenio]

because it's her body. You do not get to for a person to give you a kidney, you do not get to force a woman to bear your child, it's that simple. If you don't want to have a kid, and you're a male, either don't have sex, get a vasectomy or come up with a legal agreement with your SO.

Now, for the converse, what if I want the child, want to be a father, and the woman decides to kill it because she doesn't want to be a mother?

Well, thanks to advances in IVF technology, there is a solution to that problem; a male pregnancy. It's quite simple; you get a zygote implanted into either your abdominal wall or the wall of your bowel, where it grows a placenta and starts maturing. In nine months or so, you just get a caesarian section and away you go. Of course, you'd be the first person in history to do so and there are a host of associated risks that could very well kill you both, but it takes sacrifices to raise a child, right? And think of the good you'll do for the male reproductive rights movement.

[The Parkus Empire]

Please elaborate on what you mean by "be a bitch".

As in "be excessively cruel". Can you think of any a crueler torture than to be prepared for fatherhood, to be prepared to love and cherish your child. To be willing to marry the mother, only to have said mother decide one day that she didn't want it and she gets an abortion. To me, that is one hell of a bitch move. I watched it happen to one of my friends, and he was nearly destroyed by it. To me, that is not right, and it is not just.

To me, that's a disgusting attitude. It's like justifying rape because you're really excited about impregnating a woman but she changes her mind before you can ejaculate.

[The Black Forrest]

Please elaborate on what you mean by "be a bitch".

As in "be excessively cruel". Can you think of any a crueler torture than to be prepared for fatherhood, to be prepared to love and cherish your child. To be willing to marry the mother, only to have said mother decide one day that she didn't want it and she gets an abortion. To me, that is one hell of a bitch move. I watched it happen to one of my friends, and he was nearly destroyed by it. To me, that is not right, and it is not just.

Errr? She doesn't want to marry you is her being a bitch?

[The Kings Council]

Really? I wonder how far our species would have gotten in the males suddenly all dropped dead a hundred years ago.

probably not well? there are, however, species that reproduce asexually. Moreover there are now sperm banks aplenty. You really don't need us all that much at this point.

Why, though? Does the fact that the man is not carrying the child make it any less his child. I am certain that if he ran away and the mother so desired, she could sue him for child support. If he is finacially tied to the child, whether or not he wants to be, shouldn't he also have some form of reproductive rights?

because it's her body. You do not get to for a person to give you a kidney, you do not get to force a woman to bear your child, it's that simple. If you don't want to have a kid, and you're a male, either don't have sex, get a vasectomy or come up with a legal agreement with your SO.

he wants to have the child and she doesn't so why doesn't she have the surgery so she won't get pregnant and kill a child

[DaWoad]

it's . . .her. . . .body. If you want a child, go find someone capable and willing to have a child with you. Again, you don't get to enslave a woman because you want her to have your child. Your argument can be logically extended to allow for, for example, rape. What if you really want to have a child with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, I mean you really love this potential child where's the justice in not being able to rape the woman?

do you not see the problem here?


that would be enslaving the woman.

then shouldn't an impartial part decide, if it is rape, the impartial party will favor the mother, if the woman just doesn't feel like it, the father is responsible and capable of raising the child, then the impartial party will favor the male

no. No one, including an impartial party, has the right to force a woman to do something with her body.
take, again, the rape example. An impartial party cannot and should not be able to say "oh your reasons for not wanting to have sex with him are stupid, legally he can now rape you". In that exact same way and impartial party cannot and should not be able to say "oh your reasons for not wanting a child are stupid, legally your body now belongs to us for the next nine months".

[Shadow25]

Now, for the converse, what if I want the child, want to be a father, and the woman decides to kill it because she doesn't want to be a mother?

Well, thanks to advances in IVF technology, there is a solution to that problem; a male pregnancy. It's quite simple; you get a zygote implanted into either your abdominal wall or the wall of your bowel, where it grows a placenta and starts maturing. In nine months or so, you just get a caesarian section and away you go. Of course, you'd be the first person in history to do so and there are a host of associated risks that could very well kill you both, but it takes sacrifices to raise a child, right? And think of the good you'll do for the male reproductive rights movement.

and if you for some reason decided that you want to quit because it is too hard the woman have the right to stop you after all who are you to decide what happens to your body?

[Risottia]

this thread is about Male reproductive rights, do we have any?

No. There are no positive right to reproduction that can overtake the right of another person to control her own body.
Basically, as males, we have a right to reproduce insofar a female is willing to collaborate by completing a pregnancy.

[DaWoad]

probably not well? there are, however, species that reproduce asexually. Moreover there are now sperm banks aplenty. You really don't need us all that much at this point.

because it's her body. You do not get to for a person to give you a kidney, you do not get to force a woman to bear your child, it's that simple. If you don't want to have a kid, and you're a male, either don't have sex, get a vasectomy or come up with a legal agreement with your SO.

he wants to have the child and she doesn't so why doesn't she have the surgery so she won't get pregnant and kill a child

1- it's not a child
2-it's her body, she can choose to get her tubes tied if she wants or an abortion if she gets pregnant and doesn't want the fetus.

[Avenio]

Well, thanks to advances in IVF technology, there is a solution to that problem; a male pregnancy. It's quite simple; you get a zygote implanted into either your abdominal wall or the wall of your bowel, where it grows a placenta and starts maturing. In nine months or so, you just get a caesarian section and away you go. Of course, you'd be the first person in history to do so and there are a host of associated risks that could very well kill you both, but it takes sacrifices to raise a child, right? And think of the good you'll do for the male reproductive rights movement.

and if you for some reason decided that you want to quit because it is too hard the woman have the right to stop you after all who are you to decide what happens to your body?

Oh, of course. They did half the work of creating it, after all.

[Risottia]

So women have all right in the world to be a bitch to somebody who would be more than willing ot take the child because they don't want to deal with it? To put things bluntly, that is fucked.

It will be fucked up the day that pregnancies can be surgically transferred to men.