Should we celebrate Osama's Death

[Central Slavia]

Actually, I'm all for them. Of course it will make them mad; Killing Osama in the first place would make 'em mad. I see it like Halo on XBox Live: First you kill him, then you rub it in his(or his follower's) face(s), and say, "Suck it!" And making them mad is also a plus: If you want to kill someone because you hate them in every way, can you think straight? Usually the answer is no. So they'll go crazy trying to avenge his death and screw up. If not, we still have moar dakka.

Because AQ detonating a nuclear bomb they acquired from Pakistan in San Fran or Boston or some other large American city is good, right? That's why making them pissed is a plus, right?

Anyone who celebrates Osama's death in such an open fashion is on par with those fellows who burn the Qu'ran. They're only enticing attacks on American and ISAF troops by creating massive propaganda for AQ to use to rile their followers up even more, especially given how little actual leadership capability Osama had in the organisation. He was essentially their moneyman and public face. Nothing more. They'll find more funding, and they'll use the celebrations to show how "barbaric" Americans or some shit, to make Osama a martyr.

Bullshit.

Half the problem comes from the A-q guys viewing the western world as weak and decadent ,as your opinions in fact represent.
We should indeed rub it in their face and show we can be as nasty as them.
I'd personally hang anyone that tried to smuggle arms or explosives into an aircraft, and quickly, within a few weeks.

Remember - these are folks who (during the civil war after Karmal's governemnt fell) welded their captured enemies into barrels and left them in the desert.

[Andaluciae]

No, however hateful he may have been, the way the American troops treated his body after (no dirty thougts, PLEASE) was discraceful, shaving his beard off was an insult to others of his religion and the images of it are more than likely going to anger his supporters, and guess what, next year is the Olympics, if they'll target anything, it's very likely to be that.

Shaving his beard off? Where did you hear that?

[Churchilland]

Its wrong to celebrate anyones death, regardless of deeds.
Its primitive and childish.

Bullshit.
Death of fascists and criminals is a reason for celebration. Especially if inflicted by someone else as a part of legal proceedings
Life lacks any implicit value, and well , these folks had a negative one

Not really, you don't see people queing up outside prisons with party hats and balloons now do you? It is stupid to celebrate the death of someone, unless they are the leader of a legal hate, eg the Nazis, that was acceptable as Hitler was oppressing the Germans and the Jews with his laws and threatening millions of lives, OBL was not in power of a political situation and almost all countries were looking for him

[The Matriarchians]

No, however hateful he may have been, the way the American troops treated his body after (no dirty thougts, PLEASE) was discraceful, shaving his beard off was an insult to others of his religion and the images of it are more than likely going to anger his supporters, and guess what, next year is the Olympics, if they'll target anything, it's very likely to be that.

I knew about the Olympics but they threated his body like that. We should not celebrate his death.

At least publically.

[Island of War]

Normally, I would say yes that we should. The only problem I could think of, and some could disagree, that celebrating his death could be used as a recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda members and recruiters. It could just fuel their hate. But other than that absolutely.

[Churchilland]

No, however hateful he may have been, the way the American troops treated his body after (no dirty thougts, PLEASE) was discraceful, shaving his beard off was an insult to others of his religion and the images of it are more than likely going to anger his supporters, and guess what, next year is the Olympics, if they'll target anything, it's very likely to be that.

Shaving his beard off? Where did you hear that?

BBC. Yes, some would call the beeb Propaganda but normally it's VERY accurate and can delve into places... they have people everywhere...

[EnragedMaldivians]

Actually, I'm all for them. Of course it will make them mad; Killing Osama in the first place would make 'em mad. I see it like Halo on XBox Live: First you kill him, then you rub it in his(or his follower's) face(s), and say, "Suck it!" And making them mad is also a plus: If you want to kill someone because you hate them in every way, can you think straight? Usually the answer is no. So they'll go crazy trying to avenge his death and screw up. If not, we still have moar dakka.

Because AQ detonating a nuclear bomb they acquired from Pakistan in San Fran or Boston or some other large American city is good, right? That's why making them pissed is a plus, right?

Anyone who celebrates Osama's death in such an open fashion is on par with those fellows who burn the Qu'ran. They're only enticing attacks on American and ISAF troops by creating massive propaganda for AQ to use to rile their followers up even more, especially given how little actual leadership capability Osama had in the organisation. He was essentially their moneyman and public face. Nothing more. They'll find more funding, and they'll use the celebrations to show how "barbaric" Americans or some shit, to make Osama a martyr.

Qur'an burnings are done to demonstrate hatred towards an entire group of people. Where is the prejudice in celebrating the death of one Mass murderer?

The political incentives for Al Qaeda to keep attacking the U.S do not change wether Bin Laden is dead or not. But killing him does effect the organization, in that they've lost one of their most charismatic figureheads. It will certainly dampen their morale.

No, however hateful he may have been, the way the American troops treated his body after (no dirty thougts, PLEASE) was discraceful, shaving his beard off was an insult to others of his religion and the images of it are more than likely going to anger his supporters, and guess what, next year is the Olympics, if they'll target anything, it's very likely to be that.

The majority of Muslims want nothing to do with his religion.

But thank you for the intelligence tip.

[The Floridian Coast]

Well not anymore, unfashionably late much?

[Andaluciae]

Shaving his beard off? Where did you hear that?

BBC. Yes, some would call the beeb Propaganda but normally it's VERY accurate and can delve into places... they have people everywhere...

I love the beeb. Care to provide a link as a source?

[Beinai]

Noone's death for celebration. Only the celebration of their life. OBL may be dead but there'll always be worse. When I saw these students shouting "USA", I thought it was sick. Sure, Bin Laden was evil. Then again, in many parts of society, Socialism may be evil or Capitalism etc. Short version: NO, it's sick to do so.

[Andaluciae]

Normally, I would say yes that we should. The only problem I could think of, and some could disagree, that celebrating his death could be used as a recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda members and recruiters. It could just fuel their hate. But other than that absolutely.

I seriously doubt that some drunken college students celebrating bin Ladens death is going to create a single recruit more than would otherwise happen.

[Arumdaum]

I don't agree with celebrating the death of another person. So no.

[Andaluciae]

Noone's death for celebration. Only the celebration of their life. OBL may be dead but there'll always be worse. When I saw these students shouting "USA", I thought it was sick. Sure, Bin Laden was evil. Then again, in many parts of society, Socialism may be evil or Capitalism etc. Short version: NO, it's sick to do so.

Whenever we get this hand-wringing, navel-gazing, super-ego run wild foolishness, it's hard to really see anything other than a sense of smug self-superiority. It's boring, doesn't make yoy look like a deep introspective individual, it's plain not flattering.

[Andaluciae]

Well not anymore, unfashionably late much?

Pretty much. There is something wrong with you if you are still out there celebrating, but that's more in the extreme OCD spectrum of things.

[Keronians]

Noone's death for celebration. Only the celebration of their life. OBL may be dead but there'll always be worse. When I saw these students shouting "USA", I thought it was sick. Sure, Bin Laden was evil. Then again, in many parts of society, Socialism may be evil or Capitalism etc. Short version: NO, it's sick to do so.

Whenever we get this hand-wringing, navel-gazing, super-ego run wild foolishness, it's hard to really see anything other than a sense of smug self-superiority. It's boring, doesn't make yoy look like a deep introspective individual, it's plain not flattering.

There is such a strong irony in this post...

[East Canuck]

Celebrating what exactly? Extrajudicial killings? Invasion of sovereign land? 10+ years of inept information gathering? Or better yet, reliable information gathered by torture?

I don't see anything worth celebrating in this particular death.

1. Demonstrate hat Osama's killing was in violation of international law.

Are you serious? Did OBL had a trial? Furthermore, invading the sovereign territory of Pakistan makes this killing in violation of international law to say the least.

2. Invasion is a hyperbolic word. Their sovereignty was violated, yes. And Obama's stated that he is willing to continue ignoring their sovereignty to go after other high level targets - personally, I think it makes sense to do this.

And I think it makes no sense to act like "It's okay when we do it". I think it makes sense to see the USA has robbed Canada of billions of $ in their softwood lumber dispute. Shall I take a quick trip to New York and steal my share of that money?
"Do unto others.."

(Pakistan's government is so corrupt, and they are such a nuisance to South Asia; I'd rather they not have any sovereignty anyway. They blew up all their sane politicians a long time ago.)

Because, obviously, you get to decide who has sovereignty and who has not, right...

3. I have no opinion on the morality of torture; but it doesn't seem to me that much reliable information was gathered by its use.

That was the GOP talking points after the death of OBL. Despicable, in my opinion.

Regardless; you may not like the process that led up to it - but I don't see anything wrong with celebrating the death of a mass murderer.

Let me tell you what is wrong with it:
OBL was hated because of his actions. Now we killed him using the very same action all the way to claiming responsibility on television and celebration on the streets. I hope you realize that you hate what you have become.
Or is it okay when we do it?

[Andaluciae]

Whenever we get this hand-wringing, navel-gazing, super-ego run wild foolishness, it's hard to really see anything other than a sense of smug self-superiority. It's boring, doesn't make yoy look like a deep introspective individual, it's plain not flattering.

There is such a strong irony in this post...

You keep using that word, but I'm not sure you are entirely aware of what it means...

[Keronians]

There is such a strong irony in this post...

You keep using that word, but I'm not sure you are entirely aware of what it means...

Then I suppose you'll remain unsure, won't you?

[Andaluciae]

You keep using that word, but I'm not sure you are entirely aware of what it means...

Then I suppose you'll remain unsure, won't you?

Princess Bride, anybody? Regardless, for irony to work, there would have to be more than a superficial similarity.

I am aware that I criticized someone who was criticizing someone. I criticized them for the.self righteous, super-ego fiesta that is the constant hand-wringing that seems to be ther M.O. for some people. It's like the little old lady in church who tut-tuts about kids these days.

[Beinai]

Whenever we get this hand-wringing, navel-gazing, super-ego run wild foolishness, it's hard to really see anything other than a sense of smug self-superiority. It's boring, doesn't make yoy look like a deep introspective individual, it's plain not flattering.

Your judgement is inaccurate. I wouldn't define myself as 'super-ego'. Well, from what I remember when I was studying it breifly. I don't care if I don't look like 'a deep introspective individual'-That's not a goal. I'm not going to hold back my belief because it's 'boring' to any person/ people. The point is, I'm just sharing my belief. That's right- MY belief. It doesn't actively harm anyone. So thank you kindly.

P.S. The killing was no problem for me.

[EnragedMaldivians]

1. Demonstrate hat Osama's killing was in violation of international law.

Are you serious? Did OBL had a trial? Furthermore, invading the sovereign territory of Pakistan makes this killing in violation of international law to say the least.

2. Invasion is a hyperbolic word. Their sovereignty was violated, yes. And Obama's stated that he is willing to continue ignoring their sovereignty to go after other high level targets - personally, I think it makes sense to do this.

And I think it makes no sense to act like "It's okay when we do it". I think it makes sense to see the USA has robbed Canada of billions of $ in their softwood lumber dispute. Shall I take a quick trip to New York and steal my share of that money?
"Do unto others.."

(Pakistan's government is so corrupt, and they are such a nuisance to South Asia; I'd rather they not have any sovereignty anyway. They blew up all their sane politicians a long time ago.)

Because, obviously, you get to decide who has sovereignty and who has not, right...

3. I have no opinion on the morality of torture; but it doesn't seem to me that much reliable information was gathered by its use.

That was the GOP talking points after the death of OBL. Despicable, in my opinion.

Regardless; you may not like the process that led up to it - but I don't see anything wrong with celebrating the death of a mass murderer.

Let me tell you what is wrong with it:
OBL was hated because of his actions. Now we killed him using the very same action all the way to claiming responsibility on television and celebration on the streets. I hope you realize that you hate what you have become.
Or is it okay when we do it?

1. Trial? As the head of Al-Qaeda he was a legitimate military target.

Besides: Article 51 of the UN Charter:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Should the U.S have just allowed Bin Laden to conduct and direct operations from inside Abbottobad? When those operations, should they have been succesful, would have led to the harming of American civilians? A governments first and foremost responsibility is the protection of its citizens from harm.

2. If those high level targets are a threat to U.S security, it makes perfect sense. Al-Qaeda is not a Nation State - but as far as international law goes, article 51 can be, and has been flexibly applied. (as it was with Afghanistan).

Furthemore, Pakistan was not acting on good faith - as their government is hugely subordinate to ISI interests. An organization with fanatical elements that were more than happy to be complacent in the knowledge of Bin Ladens whereabouts. I think the fact that Osama didn't even bother planning an escape route is rather telling. It would have made less sense to inform Pakistan, prior to the operation.

3. I haven't decided anything for them. I am not in a position to do that - but yes, violation of Pakistiani sovereignty for the sake of conducting legitimate military operations don't bother me much.

(Nor do I think that National Sovereignty and self determination are some inviolabe principles; but that's my personal politics.)

4. I said torture didn't seem to be an effective way of gathering the information. I would support these methods if they were effective; as they are not - I don't see the point in using it for information extraction. I rarely agree with the GOP on anything, and I'm quite the Obama fan.

5. At the end of the days morals are rather arbitrary and subjective is it not; I've subjectively decided that killing someone who killed innocent people, and tainted a billion people - is not equivalent to the killing of innocent people in the first place. If you feel there is something wrong with that, there is nothing I can do.

I can feel sympathy for the near 3000 people he killed during 9/11. I can feel sympathy for the 100's of Shi'ite pilgrims Al Qaeda has murdered.

However, I do not feel any sympathy whatsoever for Osama Bin Laden; whose actions make him qualitively different to me from other human beings. Thus there is a qualitative difference between him killing innocent people - and killing him as retribution for his actions.

If you feel that makes me equivalent to Bin Laden, there is nothing I can do, but laugh.

[Uawc]

The death of Osama bin Laden is a neutral event for me. He was trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, then he's accused of orchestrating 9/11 (another question which is irrelevant to me).

Let's hypothetically, for the sake of the argument, say that Osama did lead the 9/11 attacks. Yes, that is pretty horrible. But America makes 9/11 happen every day in the third world. It's never not invading somebody and stomping all over their people. The last time America had a clear victory against an unambiguously evil enemy was WW2, and that wasn't even their exclusive victory, as it was the Soviets who stormed Berlin and destroyed the Nazi state.

Osama was no good guy, but I have a hard time sympathizing for America as a nation and celebrating the death of a guy who may have killed about three thousand people (is that the number?) while the country that's been "victimized" has over its history killed hundreds of millions, perhaps reaching into he billions, all for the sake of profit and maintaining global hegemony as well as domination over the third world.

[Thespinia]

I'm glad hes dead, but I don't think celebrating it is right. Yes, I know he orchestrated 9/11 and killed 3000 people.
How many people are dead because of Coalition intervention in Afghanistan? More than 3000.
But then again, I'm against the War overall, so don't my pacifist hippy word for it

[ACoMia]

The death of Osama bin Laden is a neutral event for me. He was trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, then he's accused of orchestrating 9/11 (another question which is irrelevant to me).

Let's hypothetically, for the sake of the argument, say that Osama did lead the 9/11 attacks. Yes, that is pretty horrible. But America makes 9/11 happen every day in the third world. It's never not invading somebody and stomping all over their people. The last time America had a clear victory against an unambiguously evil enemy was WW2, and that wasn't even their exclusive victory, as it was the Soviets who stormed Berlin and destroyed the Nazi state.

Osama was no good guy, but I have a hard time sympathizing for America as a nation and celebrating the death of a guy who may have killed about three thousand people (is that the number?) while the country that's been "victimized" has over its history killed hundreds of millions, perhaps reaching into he billions, all for the sake of profit and maintaining global hegemony as well as domination over the third world.

This.

[Fson]

Of course not doing so makes you like an idiot.