US to boycott racism conference

[Caninope]

Yes, because an ideology that says "We're god's chosen people so arabs get out!" is totally not discriminatory in any way. Poor, poor Israel.

You're right.

Good thing that's not Zionism anymore than feminazis can be considered feminists.

[Caninope]

I smell backroom diplomacy. It seems uncanny the US just walks out of a summit willy-nilly.

You do realize that CANADA did this last year, right?

[Laerod]

I have severe doubts that either the Taliban or those Pakistanis directly responsible for hiding bin Laden will be attending the conference.

Don't play dumb. It is common knowledge Pakistan and other taliban-related countries did nothing to try to find him and silence is as good as support.

I'm not playing dumb, it quite literally is the way I said it. No country other than Pakistan can be held responsible for not trying to find him and even then it's been pointed out by the US that the government wasn't complicit in hiding him. The Taliban themselves aren't represented in any governement. No one complicit in the Sept. 11th attacks or hiding those responsible will be attending this conference.

[Hamiltonya]

Don't play dumb. It is common knowledge Pakistan and other taliban-related countries did nothing to try to find him and silence is as good as support.

I'm not playing dumb, it quite literally is the way I said it. No country other than Pakistan can be held responsible for not trying to find him and even then it's been pointed out by the US that the government wasn't complicit in hiding him. The Taliban themselves aren't represented in any governement. No one complicit in the Sept. 11th attacks or hiding those responsible will be attending this conference.

Afghanistan?

[Conserative Morality]

Afghanistan?

Different government now.

[Forsakia]

Isn't zionism is the advocation of a JEWISH state in Palestine. So anti-zionism isn't necessarily against the existence of Israel, but against it being a specifically Jewish state rather than a multi-whatever one.

The state of Israel is the Jewish state. If Israel were to absolve itself of its Jewish identity and become a multiethnic or even an Arab state, it wouldn't be Israel any more. Isratin or Palestine are the suggested names for such a solution.

From memory there's a long history of back and forth within Israel over whether it should be a Jewish State or a state of Jews, levels of secularism etc.

But I hardly think that counts as the rather flamboyant claim of 'the abolishment of the state of Israel'.

[Laerod]

I'm not playing dumb, it quite literally is the way I said it. No country other than Pakistan can be held responsible for not trying to find him and even then it's been pointed out by the US that the government wasn't complicit in hiding him. The Taliban themselves aren't represented in any governement. No one complicit in the Sept. 11th attacks or hiding those responsible will be attending this conference.

Afghanistan?

There has never been an Afghan delegation at a UN conference that was Taliban. The Taliban have never been nor are they currently part of any government that is recognized as representing any country. Prior to the Afghan War, the Northern Alliance represented Afghanistan despite the Taliban running about 90% of the country. After they dissolved in favor of recreating the Afghan state, the Karsai government has been the legal representation of Afghanistan. For all his flaws, him and his government are not Taliban nor are they in any way linked to the Sept. 11th plot.

Feel free to find evidence that I'm wrong but I'm quite certain you won't find anything that will withstand scrutiny.

[Angleter]

The state of Israel is the Jewish state. If Israel were to absolve itself of its Jewish identity and become a multiethnic or even an Arab state, it wouldn't be Israel any more. Isratin or Palestine are the suggested names for such a solution.

From memory there's a long history of back and forth within Israel over whether it should be a Jewish State or a state of Jews, levels of secularism etc.

But I hardly think that counts as the rather flamboyant claim of 'the abolishment of the state of Israel'.

Oh sure there's the debate on the position of religion in Israel, but the fact remains that it is the ethnic nation-state of the Jews, just as Germany is for the Germans, Finland for the Finns, etc. And Israel as a name has deliberate and unshakeable connotations to the idea of a Jewish nation-state.

[Hamiltonya]

Afghanistan?

There has never been an Afghan delegation at a UN conference that was Taliban. The Taliban have never been nor are they currently part of any government that is recognized as representing any country. Prior to the Afghan War, the Northern Alliance represented Afghanistan despite the Taliban running about 90% of the country. After they dissolved in favor of recreating the Afghan state, the Karsai government has been the legal representation of Afghanistan. For all his flaws, him and his government are not Taliban nor are they in any way linked to the Sept. 11th plot.

Feel free to find evidence that I'm wrong but I'm quite certain you won't find anything that will withstand scrutiny.

You clearly did not understand what I meant. You said "no other nation can be held responsible for not trying to find him and even then it's been pointed out by the US that the government wasn't complicit in hiding him." I'm not arguing that the Afghan government wasn't recognized as being Taliban but then again Taiwan held China's seat in the UN until 1971. The thing is just because a government isn't recognized doesn't mean it isn't there. I wasn't arguing that the Karsai government was hiding or even abetting Bin Laden, but if you argue that Afghanistan did not assist Osama then you were not seeing what I was seeing. You could argue that then Afghanistan government is the one that will be at the Durban III conference, but Pakistan's presence alone is enough for it to be shameful and there have been other countries throughout the UN which at one point or another have supported the Taliban such as Albania, Sudan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, so on.

[Laerod]

There has never been an Afghan delegation at a UN conference that was Taliban. The Taliban have never been nor are they currently part of any government that is recognized as representing any country. Prior to the Afghan War, the Northern Alliance represented Afghanistan despite the Taliban running about 90% of the country. After they dissolved in favor of recreating the Afghan state, the Karsai government has been the legal representation of Afghanistan. For all his flaws, him and his government are not Taliban nor are they in any way linked to the Sept. 11th plot.

Feel free to find evidence that I'm wrong but I'm quite certain you won't find anything that will withstand scrutiny.

You clearly did not understand what I meant. You said "no other nation can be held responsible for not trying to find him and even then it's been pointed out by the US that the government wasn't complicit in hiding him." I'm not arguing that the Afghan government wasn't recognized as being Taliban but then again Taiwan held China's seat in the UN until 1971. The thing is just because a government isn't recognized doesn't mean it isn't there.

Actually, that's exactly what it means. If the government is not recognized, it will not be there in New York. If it isn't recognized, it will not be attending the conference. And the Taliban have never been part of a current recognized government of Afghanistan or its predecessor.

I wasn't arguing that the Karsai government was hiding or even abetting Bin Laden, but if you argue that Afghanistan did not assist Osama then this conversation is pointless.

You complained about this:

Is it not a slap to the US's face when the same people that protected your attacker then decide to go to the crime scene so near it's anniversary?

The same people that protected Osama are not part of the Afghan delegation. Nor will they be part of the Pakistani delegation. The same people that protected the attackers will not be going to the crime scene so near to its anniversary.

[Hamiltonya]

They are indeed a part of the Pakistani delegation. I thought it was already understood that by the Pakistani Government not making a choice, they made a choice. They protected Bin Laden through silence.

You are right about Afghanistan not being in New York but don't ever say Afghanistan was not controlled by the Taliban. Have you never head of guilt through association? Though the Taliban itself will not be present, plenty of nations, that have supported it, will be present.

[Outer Chaosmosis]

Good thing that's not Zionism anymore than feminazis can be considered feminists.

No True Scotsman Fallacy anyone?

And what in the world is a feminazi (other than a derogatory term used by defenders of patriarchy to scare college freshmen)?

[Laerod]

They are indeed a part of the Pakistani delegation. I thought it was already understood that by the Pakistani Government not making a choice, they made a choice. They protected Bin Laden through silence.

You're assuming that the Pakistani government was aware that Osama bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad despite there not being a shred of evidence in favor of that hypothesis, as the US government itself acknowledges. The Pakistani government is not guilty of being silent about something they had no idea of.

You are right about Afghanistan not being in New York but don't ever say Afghanistan was not controlled by the Taliban. Have you never head of guilt through association? Though the Taliban itself will not be present, plenty of nations, that have supported it, will be present.

You misunderstood. The Afghanis that hid and protected bin Laden will not be going to New York because they currently aren't and never have been on a list of invitees for such a conference or anything comparable. And what nations that supported bin Laden (not the Taliban, that's not what you claimed) in planning the Sept 11th attacks will be attending? And what evidence do you have that they did?

Regarding the Taliban controlling Afghanistan: Entirely immaterial. UN membership and representation is not dependent on whether a government actually controls the land it supposedly governs. And UN recognition is the only criteria that matters when discussing who will be attending a UN conference. The Taliban aren't invited nor are they the legal predecessors to the current government.

[Ragnarsdomr]

And what in the world is a feminazi (other than a derogatory term used by defenders of patriarchy to scare college freshmen)?

Specifically, I understand it to be used to describe the radical 'feminists' who propose either a one-gender or a female-dominated world, generally by arguing that men are an inferior, weaker gender who have wormed their way into power, much like how the Nazis argued that the Jews were an inferior, weaker race who had wormed their way into power.

Of course, as with the word Nazi itself, it's been used for anyone remotely relatable to the idea, even if it's just that both they and 'Feminazis' breath air.

[Hamiltonya]

It has been known since 2005 that Osama Bin Laden was somewhere in the Waziristan region of Pakistan thanks to a letter between Atiyah Abd al-Rahman and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Also, Bin Laden was located in a compound less than 100 kilometers from and capitol and less than a MILE from the Pakistani version of West Point. If you can say that they didn't know where he was, you're an idiot.

That's what I just said. The Afghanistan government that had assisted Bin Laden will not be in New York. Some nations are included in my comment above, that I have edited before your last post. Bin Laden was a key member of the Taliban. They are one in the same. If you would like information on how the previously mentioned countries assisted Bin Laden, we can work through each one individually or you can check them out yourself. Your choice.

Regarding the UN, I just said that lol. I know that the Afghani government which supported the Taliban won't be there. I just said it in my earlier comment.

[Hamiltonya]

Oh and just because the UN doesn't recognize a country's government, it doesn't mean that country isn't controlled by that government. That's what my above comment about Afghanistan meant.

[Hamiltonya]

Albania, Sudan, and Bosnia and Herzegovina were the three I listed earlier.

[Laerod]

It has been known since 2005 that Osama Bin Laden was somewhere in the Waziristan region of Pakistan thanks to a letter between Atiyah Abd al-Rahman and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Also, Bin Laden was located in a compound less than 100 kilometers from and capitol and less than a MILE from the Pakistani version of West Point. If you can say that they didn't know where he was, you're an idiot.

Not proof. And it wasn't good enough for the US government either.

That's what I just said. The Afghanistan government that had assisted Bin Laden will not be in New York. Some nations are included in my comment above, that I have edited before your last post. Bin Laden was a key member of the Taliban. They are one in the same. If you would like information on how the previously mentioned countries assisted Bin Laden, we can work through each one individually or you can check them out yourself. Your choice.

Regarding the UN, I just said that lol. I know that the Afghani government which supported the Taliban won't be there. I just said it in my earlier comment.

Yeah, the Taliban and Al Qaeda being one and the same is factually incorrect. At the very least it was factually incorrect back in 2001.

Go ahead and work through the countries.

[Hamiltonya]

Ha, if you can deny that than you're just being an idiot. There is no possible way especially since it is believed that he was located there for up to FIVE years.
I never said Al Qaeda and the Taliban were the same?

[Hamiltonya]

Lol dangit. I don't really want to but I'll provide links if I can find any and if I can't I'll work through them.

[Forsakia]

From memory there's a long history of back and forth within Israel over whether it should be a Jewish State or a state of Jews, levels of secularism etc.

But I hardly think that counts as the rather flamboyant claim of 'the abolishment of the state of Israel'.

Oh sure there's the debate on the position of religion in Israel, but the fact remains that it is the ethnic nation-state of the Jews, just as Germany is for the Germans, Finland for the Finns, etc. And Israel as a name has deliberate and unshakeable connotations to the idea of a Jewish nation-state.

How distinct are the ethnicities of Western Europe really? I think Israel could still exist as a state of Jews rather than one that has a particular ethnicity or religion enshrined in its legal system.

[Laerod]

Ha, if you can deny that than you're just being an idiot. There is no possible way especially since it is believed that he was located there for up to FIVE years.
I never said Al Qaeda and the Taliban were the same?

I can deny it because the US government denies it. And they deny it because there is no proof to the contrary. Not that it isn't embarrassing for Pakistan, but that doesn't prove anything either.

You claimed Osama bin Laden and the Taliban were one and the same when bin Laden was the head of Al Qaeda. It and bin Laden were allied with the Taliban, sharing common ideological interpretations of Islam, but they were distinct from one another. This might no longer be the case given the War in Afghanistan and possible merging of assets, but it wasn't true back then.

[Caninope]

Oh sure there's the debate on the position of religion in Israel, but the fact remains that it is the ethnic nation-state of the Jews, just as Germany is for the Germans, Finland for the Finns, etc. And Israel as a name has deliberate and unshakeable connotations to the idea of a Jewish nation-state.

How distinct are the ethnicities of Western Europe really? I think Israel could still exist as a state of Jews rather than one that has a particular ethnicity or religion enshrined in its legal system.

Last I checked, it didn't.

[Hamiltonya]

Sudan first. Well in Sudan Bin Laden established his mujahideen operations in Khartoum. The Sudan government learned of his location and talked with Saudia Arabia about his expulsion. Instead of handing him over he was allowed to flee to Afghanistan.

Bosnia and Herzegovina offered Bin Laden citizenship and made themselves a safe-haven for him. (Though he never exploited it.)

In 1998 Bin Laden operating Al-Qaeda out of Albania.

All three have either Taliban or Bin Laden connections.

[Hamiltonya]

I definitly did not say the Taliban and Bin Laden were the same. I said that Bin Laden was a key member of the Taliban. I never mentioned Al-Qaeda.