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California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

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Neu California
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California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Neu California » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:42 pm

THe vetoes had to do with budget cuts

LA Times wrote:]State Senate leader says he'll sue Schwarzenegger over budget cuts
2:04 PM | August 7, 2009
State Senate leader Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento) said today that he will file a lawsuit against Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to challenge his use of line-item vetoes last month to make nearly $500 million in spending cuts to the state budget.

Steinberg said he will file the lawsuit as an individual in San Francisco County Superior Court early next week and will tap political funds to pay for the legal challenge.

“We elected a governor, not an emperor,” Steinberg said at a Capitol news conference. “In making these line-item vetoes the governor forced punishing cuts on children, the disabled and patients that he couldn’t win fairly at the bargaining table. And in doing so, he overstepped his constitutional authority.”

The announcement was made just two days after the Legislature’s legal counsel issued an opinion arguing that Schwarzenegger exceeded his constitutional powers by imposing the cuts to health, welfare and other programs.

Democratic leaders contended that the cuts should have been off-limits to the governor's blue pencil because they had been funded under a February budget agreement. That budget fell out of balance as state revenue plummeted.

The Legislature sent the governor a budget fix July 24 that left the state in deficit, without a reserve, forcing the governor to find more cuts, said Aaron McLear, a spokesman for the governor.

"The governor’s constitutional authority to veto appropriations is unquestioned and will be upheld by the courts," McLear said.

"While Democrats are focused on a protracted legal battle to dig the state back into deficit, the governor will continue to focus on moving our state forward and getting Californians back to work.”

Steinberg said he is open to having the governor propose an alternative to the budget cuts to avoid a legal showdown. The Senate leader added that he welcomes other Democratic lawmakers to join the case.

"I am supportive of this action," said Sen. Gloria Romero (D-Los Angeles). "This is a constitutional question. People are talking about holding a constitutional convention, but what’s the use of having a constitutional convention if people are not going to follow the constitution?"

The lawsuit over $500 million in cuts follows the decision by Democrats to cut billions more from health, welfare and education programs backed by their key constituencies.

Republican political consultant Allan Hoffenblum said the lawsuit is not unexpected because "they need to appease the powerful base of the Democratic Party, to show that they have done everything they can."

Steinberg is not the first elected Democrat to battle with Schwarzenegger in court this year. State Controller John Chiang and other statewide officials argued unsuccessfully in Superior Court in March that the governor did not have power to furlough their employees.

The lawsuit also has political implications, said consultant Harvey Englander, who has worked on many California campaigns.

"I think it’s important for Steinberg politically to show strong leadership because some people have questioned how strong he was," Englander said.

-- Patrick McGreevy, in Sacramento


Ignoring the constitutionality of line-item vetoes in California, which I'm not sure about ( but then again the constitution here is so big and convoluted it's no wonder someone once said that it's "the perfect example of what a constitution ought not to be") do you think that Shwarzy was justified in making these massive cuts, or that he overstepped his authority? I Know I'm of the latter opinion
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Katganistan
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Katganistan » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:47 pm

It sucks, but: how are they going to pay for it all if he DOESN'T make any cuts? They're already furloughing people and giving teachers IOUs (when not firing them).

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Ernst_Rohm » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:48 pm

i'm not sure how you could tell if he overstepped his authority without being a scholar in the field of california constitutional law. you might have an opinion as to whether you are in favor of his cuts, but i don't see how the layman could come to a conclusion on whether he had the authority since his office says he does and the legislature seems to think he doesn't.

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Neu California
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Neu California » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:50 pm

Katganistan wrote:It sucks, but: how are they going to pay for it all if he DOESN'T make any cuts? They're already furloughing people and giving teachers IOUs (when not firing them).

My solution involves repealing prop 13, which sets property taxes at 1% and allows for an increase of 2% yearly (below inflation)
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby The South Islands » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:51 pm

This is entirely a constitutional issue.

That being said, I laugh at California for getting themselves into this mess.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Christmahanikwanzikah » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:11 pm

The South Islands wrote:This is entirely a constitutional issue.

That being said, I laugh at California for getting themselves into this mess.


Just wait 'til we legalize pot, THEN we'll see who laughs!

;)

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Georgetpwn » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:17 pm

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:
The South Islands wrote:This is entirely a constitutional issue.

That being said, I laugh at California for getting themselves into this mess.


Just wait 'til we legalize pot, THEN we'll see who laughs!

;)


good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!
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The South Islands
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby The South Islands » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:23 pm

Georgetpwn wrote:
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:
The South Islands wrote:This is entirely a constitutional issue.

That being said, I laugh at California for getting themselves into this mess.


Just wait 'til we legalize pot, THEN we'll see who laughs!

;)


good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!


How the hell are you supposed to fill out tax paperwork whilst stoned out of your mind?
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So it's a wonder that your presence alone in any thread don't derail them and lead to debates about world leaders and homoerotic desires.


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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Ernst_Rohm » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:25 pm

The South Islands wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:
good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!


How the hell are you supposed to fill out tax paperwork whilst stoned out of your mind?


of course some people might get paranoid and forgetful and pay their tax twice.

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Neu California » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:25 pm

The South Islands wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:
Just wait 'til we legalize pot, THEN we'll see who laughs!

;)


good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!


How the hell are you supposed to fill out tax paperwork whilst stoned out of your mind?

Make it illegal to be stoned on the job?
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little"-FDR
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist"-Dom Helder Camara
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby The South Islands » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:27 pm

Neu California wrote:
The South Islands wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:
good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!


How the hell are you supposed to fill out tax paperwork whilst stoned out of your mind?

Make it illegal to be stoned on the job?


If you can't get high while driving/flying/operating heavy machinery, it might as well be Fascism!
IL Ruffino: The wind flows / The hair on TSI's ass glides as if airborn / Smell the freshly cut grass
Gravlen: If I can blame you? Of course I can! I mean, you're like a walking cathalyst for homosexuality, driving otherwise straight men to write haikus about your ass hair...

So it's a wonder that your presence alone in any thread don't derail them and lead to debates about world leaders and homoerotic desires.


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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Neu California » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:30 pm

The South Islands wrote:
Neu California wrote:
The South Islands wrote:
How the hell are you supposed to fill out tax paperwork whilst stoned out of your mind?

Make it illegal to be stoned on the job?


If you can't get high while driving/flying/operating heavy machinery, it might as well be Fascism!

:rofl: :clap: There are no words to describe how funny that was
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little"-FDR
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist"-Dom Helder Camara
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Ernst_Rohm » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:38 pm

The South Islands wrote:
Neu California wrote:Make it illegal to be stoned on the job?


If you can't get high while driving/flying/operating heavy machinery, it might as well be Fascism!
as a proud pizza delivery driver i just want to say throughout the industry 60 percent of us are stoned while driving at work and we get into few accidents per hour working than the 15 percent who are drunk, the 8 percent who are junkies (both high and jonesing), the 5 percent who are on meth or coke, the 4 percent who are tripping, the 6 percent who are on multiple drugs, the 2 percent who are on misc substances or the statistically significant number of people who are completely sober.

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Christmahanikwanzikah » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:06 pm

Georgetpwn wrote:
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:
The South Islands wrote:This is entirely a constitutional issue.

That being said, I laugh at California for getting themselves into this mess.


Just wait 'til we legalize pot, THEN we'll see who laughs!

;)


good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!


And yet we're willing to pay an extra 1% sales tax, an extra $1 and some odd cents more for cigarettes, etc., etc...

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:12 am

Steinberg said he will file the lawsuit as an individual in San Francisco County Superior Court early next week and will tap political funds to pay for the legal challenge.

Does anybody else see a bit of a peculiar contradiction there?
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Hawkryl » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:06 am

Neu California wrote:Snip

Steinberg said he will file the lawsuit as an individual in San Francisco County Superior Court early next week and will tap political funds to pay for the legal challenge.

snip



?? is that even legal?
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby The_pantless_hero » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:19 am

Hawkryl wrote:
Neu California wrote:Snip

Steinberg said he will file the lawsuit as an individual in San Francisco County Superior Court early next week and will tap political funds to pay for the legal challenge.

snip



?? is that even legal?

I would imagine not.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Frasas » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:23 am

What else do you expect? Hardcore American liberals (from Cali) are never, ever allowed to cut spending. Especially when it is welfare for the poor, who make up almost 100% of their voting base.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby JuNii » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:26 am

Hawkryl wrote:
Neu California wrote:Snip

Steinberg said he will file the lawsuit as an individual in San Francisco County Superior Court early next week and will tap political funds to pay for the legal challenge.

snip



?? is that even legal?


dunno... But I do find that fishy...

think he's gonna run for Govenor soon?
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:29 am

I was very sad when the line item veto was ruled unconstitutional for the federal government.
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Marcuslandia
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Marcuslandia » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:41 am

Katganistan wrote:It sucks, but: how are they going to pay for it all if he DOESN'T make any cuts? They're already furloughing people and giving teachers IOUs (when not firing them).

But is it appropriate to have ONE man be able to eliminate _everything_ from the budget if he feels like it? That _is_ the logical extension: If he can unilaterally eliminate an unlimited number of items, he could (would be able to) line item veto EVERYTHING.

The budget was designed to be a compromise package that the legislators work out. Having the governor, on his own initiative, line out items means he would be in a position to take the budget, line out every item his political opponents had gotten in there through compromise, leaving only his party's version of the ideal budget. That reduces the state government to a one-party system.

When it comes to the governor's veto, it REALLY should be an all or nothing proposition. It's not up to the governor to decide entirely on his own what gets funded and what doesn't.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Marcuslandia » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:43 am

Georgetpwn wrote:good luck taxing that shit.
NO ONE will pay the pot tax!

No one _only_ if you grow your own. If they legalized it and sold it the same as cigarettes, they would _already_ be taxed by the time the pack ends up in the customer's hand.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:44 am

Marcuslandia wrote:
Katganistan wrote:It sucks, but: how are they going to pay for it all if he DOESN'T make any cuts? They're already furloughing people and giving teachers IOUs (when not firing them).

But is it appropriate to have ONE man be able to eliminate _everything_ from the budget if he feels like it? That _is_ the logical extension: If he can unilaterally eliminate an unlimited number of items, he could (would be able to) line item veto EVERYTHING.

The budget was designed to be a compromise package that the legislators work out. Having the governor, on his own initiative, line out items means he would be in a position to take the budget, line out every item his political opponents had gotten in there through compromise, leaving only his party's version of the ideal budget. That reduces the state government to a one-party system.

When it comes to the governor's veto, it REALLY should be an all or nothing proposition. It's not up to the governor to decide entirely on his own what gets funded and what doesn't.

you know vetos can be overridden.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Marcuslandia » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:46 am

Neu California wrote:Make it illegal to be stoned on the job?

EXACTLY the same regulation and enforcement as alcohol.
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Re: California Senator to sue Governator over line-item vetoes

Postby Taffy 3 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:49 am

A line item veto is probably the best amendment that can be added to the US Constitution. The Republicans gave Clinton won after 1994 and they had a balanced budget. Then the USSC said no and well I think we know what happened to our budget after that.
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