A firm step backwards: Germany shuts down nuclear power

[Coffin-Breathe]

...maybe if you´re a member of the "Addams family" - how would you feel, if we deposit some of it right next to your house ?

...he was making a grammar joke.

...funny joke...http://www.rtl.de/medien/information/rt ... r:25,s:178

really...

[Hernier]

I dont think that concern with the security of Germany's electricity supply is very valid when you consider that France would be the supplier. Any major increase in demand would be easily foreseeable by merely looking at census and demographic information. If they make the choice that nuclear powers risk-benefit ratio is to out of wack who are you to judge?

[Minnysota]

1. Such as? Nuclear waste can be reprocessed you know.

How so? I'm not necessarily questioning your logic here, I'm merely curious about how nuclear waste can be reused.

[Moral Libertarians]

I dont think that concern with the security of Germany's electricity supply is very valid when you consider that France would be the supplier. Any major increase in demand would be easily foreseeable by merely looking at census and demographic information. If they make the choice that nuclear powers risk-benefit ratio is to out of wack who are you to judge?

Because they have made that decision incorrectly, based on populist scaremongering that greatly overstated the risks while understating the benefits?

[Conserative Morality]

How so? I'm not necessarily questioning your logic here, I'm merely curious about how nuclear waste can be reused.

Nuclear reprocessing technology was developed to chemically separate and recover fissionable plutonium from irradiated nuclear fuel.[1] Reprocessing serves multiple purposes, whose relative importance has changed over time. Originally reprocessing was used solely to extract plutonium for producing nuclear weapons. With the commercialization of nuclear power, the reprocessed plutonium was recycled back into MOX nuclear fuel for thermal reactors.[2] The reprocessed uranium, which constitutes the bulk of the spent fuel material, can in principle also be re-used as fuel, but that is only economic when uranium prices are high. Finally, the breeder reactor can employ not only the recycled plutonium and uranium in spent fuel, but all the actinides, closing the nuclear fuel cycle and potentially multiplying the energy extracted from natural uranium by more than 60 times.[3] Nuclear reprocessing also reduces the volume of high-level nuclear waste and its radiotoxicity, allowing separate management (destruction or storage) of nuclear waste components.

[Caninope]

Can you source these 1000 incidents?

I hope, you can at least basically read German : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_meld ... en_Anlagen , but I guess, otherwise the tables and graphs should do...
...and those were only the ones which had to be announced as "incidents", but a lot of "lesser ones" did occur too...

Actually, reading your source, there were only 3 incidents (INES 2) and 33 anomalies (INES 1).

[Hernier]

I dont think that concern with the security of Germany's electricity supply is very valid when you consider that France would be the supplier. Any major increase in demand would be easily foreseeable by merely looking at census and demographic information. If they make the choice that nuclear powers risk-benefit ratio is to out of wack who are you to judge?

Because they have made that decision incorrectly, based on populist scaremongering that greatly overstated the risks while understating the benefits?

so the only real problem you have with their choice is that you think the debate was unfair? Damn you must have a lot of problems with politics today.

[Kaledoria]

I just saw in the news, that 6 power plants will probably continue until 2021, another 3 until 2022 and 2 will stay on standby (the last part however still unsure, mostly because it makes no sense).

This still means, that we will have another long time of coal energy that would not have been necessary. More then just another 10 years after 2022, because the growing energy factor mainly comes from wind energy, which will be at that point be, where more of those windmills will not be useful, because filling the weather-depending gaps is, what the other power plans will do.

However, it does mean, that the shortage of electricity that is created by the current switching-off of very old plants will not mean, that we go tooo far into dependency on imported electricity for tooo long.

Not everything fucked up


Btw: To the defense of the nuclear hysterics: The last objective study had shown, that none of the power plants was necessarily protected against a major terrorist attack. This is not an earthquake but it is a point to consider, that you Americans should especially understand.

[Minnysota]

-snip-

More reason to support nuclear power!

[Arkinesia]

I hope, you can at least basically read German : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_meld ... en_Anlagen , but I guess, otherwise the tables and graphs should do...
...and those were only the ones which had to be announced as "incidents", but a lot of "lesser ones" did occur too...

Actually, reading your source, there were only 3 incidents (INES 2) and 33 anomalies (INES 1).

And honestly if you actually are arsed into doing anything INES 1 anomalies are just laughers.

[Coffin-Breathe]

... had to correct this...

Oh, Three Mile Island. Heh.

Lemme let you in on a little secret about Three Mile Island. There wasn't a full accident. Because the operators of TMI knew what in fuck's name they were doing, the complete meltdown of the reactor core was avoided, and the radioactivity release did not produce a significant footprint on the existent background radiation.

Not to mention, by today's standards, TMI would be considered an unsafe design. And they still rescued it from the brink when it was seconds from a catastrophe.

So the "guided tours" to Prypjat and Chernobyl are using safety-suits only for a thrill-affect, and the "no-go" area is just for "baiting western tourists", you´d say, or did I get something wrong ? And there´s no reason why nuclear waiste is buried a few thousand yards below the surface in old salt-mines, while heavily embedded in concrete ? So I wonder, why people still use "radiation-badges" in nuclear powerplants and facilities ? Or why the Japanese even worry and frantically try to stop the leaking of radiation (not, that they have been really successful in this already) ? Or why no one till yet has started a nuclear war ?
I´ve heard, that land property is really cheap beneath nuclear powerplants, you maybe should go for some and build your house there...

Stop being so obnoxious. You might make people think that actual science doesn't work.

What safety suits? I know someone who's been on a Prypiat tour and they didn't have to wear safety suits. They went right up to the edge of the Chernobyl complex and didn't wear safety suits. Here's the kicker: he didn't die either! Amazing! Instant contact with radiation doesn't kill, you say? Preposterous.

Of course you have to keep the source of radioactivity covered—direct contact with toxic waste is dangerous. That's why they don't let you play with mercury anymore (though my mother played with mercury on a regular basis, and she's in her 50s with no reports of cancer or anything thus far, and she even does regular checkups. Then again, it was probably because it was only a drop at a time anyway). Any massive concentration of nuclear waste should either be shipped in sealed containers for re-processing, or, in the case of Chernobyl where extraction is nigh impossible, be sealed completely on-site. As for the Japanese, their backup generators were placed in an area that made them prone to flooding, and so the reactor overheated, which caused the meltdown.

Sorry mate, but no matter what objection you raise to nuclear fission, there has been a lesson learned and corrections made to counter the potential safety hazard. But when properly used, just like with any big saw or hammer, nuclear power is safe and efficient.

Nuclear war? I don't think you quite get why nuclear weapons are dangerous.

Take a bomb. Now normally a bomb is ignited with a simple bit of ignition, a spark or something of that nature.

A nuclear bomb works with a different kind of ignition. What happens is that a standard explosive initiates a reaction that then starts another explosion, and this latter explosion releases vastly more energy than the first one. So it's more akin to detonating some dynamite with a hand grenade.

And as for your last point: nobody is going to start advising that, kiddo.

Oh, I´m not obnoxious; I´m just glad, that we don´t have nuclear plants in my country; and I just sometimes care about people who don´t change their mind till a little nice mushroom smiles through their window...
...but that´s somehow not my problem then, and since I´m just a "treehugging, leftist hippie" and an "obnoxious and unsientific green leftist" you mustn´t expect me to send any help then...you maybe might get it already from the atomic lobby or from the nuclear energy companies, and who am I to interfere...
Offshore drilling was said to be "safe" and "using state of the art technology" too, wasn´t it ? And, of course, had to be done to get needed ressources of energy, had it not ?

[Moral Libertarians]

Btw: To the defense of the nuclear hysterics: The last objective study had shown, that none of the power plants was necessarily protected against a major terrorist attack. This is not an earthquake but it is a point to consider, that you Americans should especially understand.

I know you aren't arguing against nuclear, but I'd just like to point out to anyone who would try to use this point: a terrorist attack on a refinery, chemical plant, or even a ordinary building could cause more damage. I mean, a car bomb could kill a dozen people; what is it they reckon, one guy has died as a direct result of Fukushima?

[Keronians]

...he was making a grammar joke.

...funny joke...http://www.rtl.de/medien/information/rt ... r:25,s:178

really...

No.

You see, you were talking about waste. Yet you said "waist". Waist is a body part, which he said he finds sexy.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Germany is overreacting. Blame the stupid, and sensationalist green party. A political party that is so damn stupid they don't even seem to realize Earthquakes don't happen in Germany.

No, never...http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_ ... eutschland

[Staenwald]

if we all worked on the logic that everything has to protected from a terrorist attack, not much would happen. There are risks everywhere, and about 1000 ways to die every day you live. Nuclear power is safe.

[Arkinesia]

Oh, I´m not obnoxious; I´m just glad, that we don´t have nuclear plants in my country; and I just sometimes care about people who don´t change their mind till a little nice mushroom smiles through their window...

Blatant ignorance of how nuclear meltdowns work—it's a melting not an explosion.

...but that´s somehow not my problem then, and since I´m just a "treehugging, leftist hippie" and an "obnoxious and unsientific green leftist" you mustn´t expect me to send any help then...

Treehouses wouldn't help much for anything, and neither would no money or a neckbeard.

you maybe might get it already from the atomic lobby or from the nuclear energy companies, and who am I to interfere...

wat

Offshore drilling was said to be "safe" and "using state of the art technology" too, wasn´t it ? And, of course, had to be done to get needed ressources of energy, had it not ?

When you follow the instructions lots of things are safe, including offshore drilling.

Deepwater Horizon didn't follow the manual and you see what happened there.

[Moral Libertarians]

Oh, I´m not obnoxious; I´m just glad, that we don´t have nuclear plants in my country; and I just sometimes care about people who don´t change their mind till a little nice mushroom smiles through their window...

What? How does nuclear power equate to a thermonuclear detonation? It isn't physically possible.

Offshore drilling was said to be "safe" and "using state of the art technology" too, wasn´t it ? And, of course, had to be done to get needed ressources of energy, had it not ?

First: offshore drilling is an entirely different topic. And secondly, there's just so much wrong with using it as an argument against nuclear power. It is far less safe, actually, and the Deep Horizon/Macondo incident was also caused by lax safety checks and standards, the same as at Fukushima and Chernobyl. And increased adoption of nuclear would reduce demand for oil, anyway.

[Staenwald]

Germany is overreacting. Blame the stupid, and sensationalist green party. A political party that is so damn stupid they don't even seem to realize Earthquakes don't happen in Germany.

No, never...http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_ ... eutschland

du verstehst ja ,dass die Mehrheit der Leute hier kein Deutsch sprechen können?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Btw: To the defense of the nuclear hysterics: The last objective study had shown, that none of the power plants was necessarily protected against a major terrorist attack. This is not an earthquake but it is a point to consider, that you Americans should especially understand.

I know you aren't arguing against nuclear, but I'd just like to point out to anyone who would try to use this point: a terrorist attack on a refinery, chemical plant, or even a ordinary building could cause more damage. I mean, a car bomb could kill a dozen people; what is it they reckon, one guy has died as a direct result of Fukushima?

Radiation is more scary because it makes your penis fall off.

The nice man from the coal mining company told me that, and gave me a lollipop.

[Staenwald]

I know you aren't arguing against nuclear, but I'd just like to point out to anyone who would try to use this point: a terrorist attack on a refinery, chemical plant, or even a ordinary building could cause more damage. I mean, a car bomb could kill a dozen people; what is it they reckon, one guy has died as a direct result of Fukushima?

Radiation is more scary because it makes your penis fall off.

The nice man from the coal mining company told me that, and gave me a lollipop.

he only doesn't want that because then he couldn't molest you...

[Moral Libertarians]

du verstehst ja ,dass die Mehrheit der Leute hier kein Deutsch sprechen können?

"You do understand that most people here can't speak any German"

Am I right? Am I? (That was all me by the way - no Internet translators)

[Staenwald]

du verstehst ja ,dass die Mehrheit der Leute hier kein Deutsch sprechen können?

"You do understand that most people here don't speak any German"

Am I right? Am I? (That was all me by the way - no Internet translators)

I am impress.

[Caninope]

du verstehst ja ,dass die Mehrheit der Leute hier kein Deutsch sprechen können?

"You do understand that most people here can't speak any German"

Am I right? Am I? (That was all me by the way - no Internet translators)

Good job, I am impressed.

[Great Nepal]

1. Such as? Nuclear waste can be reprocessed you know.

How so? I'm not necessarily questioning your logic here, I'm merely curious about how nuclear waste can be reused.

Breeder reactor

[Moral Libertarians]

I am impress.

Good job, I am impressed.

*Basks in feelgood factor*

Me, an ignorant Brit... 4 years of German education haven't been wasted! Drop me in Germany, though, and I'd be lost...