This woman thinks all men support rape

[Azarea]

Actually, not really, well they do actually.

Well that's a shame. No wait, it's good to hear! No, I mean...

Eh, fuck it.

Its just I am way above my grade when it come to that,

Just out of curiosity, what is your grade?

and I meant urgh I am not going to explain it.

Glad we cleared that up.

Now, Why would I tell you my grade? I dont want stalkers etc. I have had a few for some reason...Well, I point it out and bam "Im tired night" Never see em again.

[Geniasis]

Now, Why would I tell you my grade? I dont want stalkers etc. I have had a few for some reason...Well, I point it out and bam "Im tired night" Never see em again.

Nah, nothing like that. Just curious is all. I remember 11th grade English for being a standout year for me in creative writing, but it was really only when I was a senior that the critical analysis and reading comprehension really took off.

That was a fun year.

[Nazis in Space]

I am a rapist......I shall file that away for further reference. Main thing that makes me a rapist is that I am pro life.Wow, she has a fucked up idea of a rapist......

Rapist =/= supporter of rape culture.

I doubt there's all that many rapists out there who are supportive of villifying rape.

[Geniasis]

I doubt there's all that many rapists out there who are supportive of villifying rape.

Nor was that my statement. My statement was that they were not equivalent.

Would it help if I went back and switched the order in my post?

[Nazis in Space]

Substantially so.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

To end the "sexual needs" debate once and for all (hopefully): It has been established that humanity as a whole must reproduce in order to survive as a species. It has been established that a given individual does not need to reproduce or otherwise engage in intercourse and/or sexual activity in order to survive. The point about people having sexual needs has been completely missed, as, in the first place, it was quite obviously intended as a figurative (I'm talking about in general, not on the blog). On the blog's comment section, she eventually went on to say that saying people have sexual needs implies that you in question think that people (or just "women") "should" have sex with you, and that because you have needs if they don't want to meet your needs by fucking you there's something wrong with them (or at least you look down upon them). Of course, a rapist or rape supporter definitely thinks like this (I somewhat agree with TNB that most of the blogger's statments had a kernel of truth in them, but IMO it's so twisted that getting to that truth is like fetching a needle from a soggy haystack). However, that's not what most people mean when they speak of sexual needs. This type of strawman thinking espoused by the blogger is greatly fueled by people (as I have seen on here) taking the concept of sexual needs at literal value and entering an agonizing circular philosophical debate on it. When someone says they have sexual "needs", it's far more akin to saying "Daaaayum, I need some of that Dr. Pepper right now, man. I got these needs, you know what I'm saying?". Unless you are just trying to troll and piss them off, I highly doubt that you are going to lecture them on how Dr. Pepper was not invented until the 1880's, humanity has done fine without it, and that you don't actually need Dr. Pepper to survive. It's called nuance, folks.

Also, on the rape culture bit, I think that Congregationists went into some good detail 20 some pages back about the way it is percieved, what's really fueling it, and what we can do to reduce some of the notions and myths about rape. As an obligatory, I'm going to point out for the 1,000th time that many myths concerning rape itself stem from an even greater myth that rape is about sex and lust, while as a whole it is not (sure there are outliers, but I'm talking about motivation for rape as a whole). I think Congregationists, be it his will, will be able to direct you back to some of his older posts or even elaborate on some of the current sub-issues being discussed.

[Kazomal]

It's called nuance, folks.

[The Congregationists]

I am a rapist......I shall file that away for further reference. Main thing that makes me a rapist is that I am pro life.Wow, she has a fucked up idea of a rapist......

Rapist =/= supporter of rape culture.

Do they not teach reading comprehension in schools anymore?

Apparantly not, since the blog doesn't specifically mention "rape culture", but is rather explicit: "Rape supporter."

A man is a rape supporter if ....

[Geniasis]

Rapist =/= supporter of rape culture.

Do they not teach reading comprehension in schools anymore?

Apparantly not, since the blog doesn't specifically mention "rape culture", but is rather explicit: "Rape supporter."

A man is a rape supporter if ....

Ah.

Well that's not a failing of reading comprehension. That's a failure to read the link again to check my work after having not looked at it for some time.

...

Also shut up.

[Banditoca]

■He watches pornography in which women are depicted.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!! Lesson here....You watch porn with women in it you are a rapist.

I love this argument. Because it means that me watching gay porn is AOkay!

[Roman Templars]

■He watches pornography in which women are depicted.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!! Lesson here....You watch porn with women in it you are a rapist.

I love this argument. Because it means that me watching gay porn is AOkay!

I prsonally, hate porn.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

I love this argument. Because it means that me watching gay porn is AOkay!

I personally, hate porn.

That's your personal opinion. Just stop at that point.

[The Atlantean Menace]

He's right in that the overwhelming majority of her assertions are completely ridiculous.

Not really. Read TNB's posts for clarification. She's making a valid point,

TNB's posts were equally absurd, and neither of them are making a valid point.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The very first point on the list means that anyone who engages in restriction play, or goes to a pissup with their girlfriend, is a rapist.

This bit's great:

He is anti-abortion.
He is pro-”choice” because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.

Next to each other, in fact. If you support abortion, you're a rapist. If you don't support abortion, you're a rapist.
And the final three points state that you can't have a preferred 'type' of woman without being a rapist (profiling, ha-ha, she's onto something here!), and that you can't find lesbianism attractive... without being a rapist.
LEARN YE

Can't believe I never looked at this thread before, that article is hilarious.

[Gravlen]

Rapists rape because they want to rape.

Actually, this is debatable. I know I'm just speaking from my own particular vantage point, but several people become rapists not because they want to rape as such, but because they fail to take sufficient care in a particular situation.

The latest report on the subject that was published suggest that a large part of sexual assaults happen at parties, where both victim and perpretrator are intoxicated. Failure to communicate and draw proper boundries can be factors as well-

That's not an excuse, but it can be an explanation of the motivations of someone who becomes a rapist. Sure, a part of the rapists just want a victim, and a part of them rape because they want power. But a part of them does not fit into either of these categories.

[Alien Space Bats]

He is anti-abortion.
He is pro-”choice” because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.

Next to each other, in fact. If you support abortion, you're a rapist. If you don't support abortion, you're a rapist.

You know, I think we could use this thread to successfully determine who among NSG-goers can actually read and who can't.

[The Atlantean Menace]

Next to each other, in fact. If you support abortion, you're a rapist. If you don't support abortion, you're a rapist.

You know, I think we could use this thread to successfully determine who among NSG-goers can actually read and who can't.

In context, I can easily believe that the woman who wrote this believes that that is the only reason any man supports abortion.

[Fujisania]

I am a man and I do not support rape.

[The Congregationists]

Also, on the rape culture bit, I think that Congregationists went into some good detail 20 some pages back about the way it is percieved, what's really fueling it, and what we can do to reduce some of the notions and myths about rape. As an obligatory, I'm going to point out for the 1,000th time that many myths concerning rape itself stem from an even greater myth that rape is about sex and lust, while as a whole it is not (sure there are outliers, but I'm talking about motivation for rape as a whole). I think Congregationists, be it his will, will be able to direct you back to some of his older posts or even elaborate on some of the current sub-issues being discussed.

Well, don't quote me on anything, and don't go asking me to comb 69 pages to reference my earlier posts, because I'm a busy man and could frankly be bothered. I'll happily state my opinion on the concept of a 'rape culture' if you will.

I subscribe to a theory of "sexual scripts." A sexual script refers to a set of instructions given people by the assorted institutions and culture they come into contact with daily - family, peer groups, media, so on and so on. These instructions cover how people are to think and act when it comes to sexual relations. While the sexual scripts are far from monolithic and have come under challenge in the last half century, they tend to revolve around the concepts of gender identity. "Rape Culture" arises from the sexual script given to women and the sexual script given to men working at cross purposes to eachother, and encourage a cycle of objectification that ends up making violent sexual acts perpetrated by men against women more likely.

Summarized very briefly, the male sexual script encourages men to identify their manhood by the number of women he sexually conquors. The female sexual script encourages women to identify their womanhood by the number of men she sexually rejects. Let us assume a given male, we'll call him "Dave" and say he strongly identifies with the male script. So Dave aspires to be a Leisure Suit Larry kind of guy. He's out to bed every woman he meets. And this is important to him. This is what makes him a "man" and identifying as such is critical in a patriarchal, highly sexually dimorphous society. If he fails to adhere to and succeed with his script, his status as "male" is tarnished, and this is bad because this is a priviliged status in the culture he comes from.

So he hits the singles bars and is promptly shot down in flames by every woman he meets, because her scripts stringently require her to do so, and are no doubt reinforced by Dave's chauvenism and implicit desire to see them only as means to his end of reinforcing his identity and acting out his script. This is an affront to Dave on several levels: he's feeling rejected and is sexually frustrated, but these are further magnified by his belief that he must bed these women if he is to be a "real man." So his views towards women become increasingly bitter. Rejection is easier to bare if it comes from those we don't like or despise somehow. Dave softens the blow by thinking to himself "they're just stupid prudes" or the like. People who's purpose is to fulfill a certain role for his benefit are not doing so. If Dave is also a psychologically insecure or unstable man or is prone to violence, the likelihood that he'll rape goes up.

That's a highly simplified example of one aspect of how it works. Having said all of this, we in no way absolve the Daves of this world from responsibility for their actions. If he does end up raping, he ought to do time for it. But there's wisdom in the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, it would be worth looking at how we as a society promote and uphold this paradgm.

In going this far, I think mainstream feminist ideology has done well. Where I part paths with the Eves of this world is that they see the solution in simply attacking the male script and men who adhere to it, and apparantly want to make the female script universal. Feminists really don't do public relations well. People who are attacked will tend to, well, surprise surprise, defend themselves, and retreat further into their ego-fortress state. Men cannot realistically be expected to abandon their script in surrender to the female script, for better or worse, this identity is a part of what these men are and to do so would be utter anathema to them. While your typical male chauvenist troll's responses to Eve's blog are boorish and repugnant, who would really expect otherwise? Demanding the wholesale neutering of the male and his utter exclusion from sexual and emotional relations with women not a serious argument for change but provocation; its own form of trolling. Also, if the female script is universal, heterosexual relations will cease to exist, which might serve the often denied bitterness of these kinds of feminist extremists well, but is that what we as a culture really want?

My opinion, though it's "belling the cat" to be sure, is to move both sexes away from stringent ego-identification with their respective scripts and into a more balanced and mutually respectful form of sexual relationship. This will ultimately mean softening stances on both sides.

Capiche?

[Andaluciae]

To end the "sexual needs" debate once and for all (hopefully): It has been established that humanity as a whole must reproduce in order to survive as a species. It has been established that a given individual does not need to reproduce or otherwise engage in intercourse and/or sexual activity in order to survive. The point about people having sexual needs has been completely missed, as, in the first place, it was quite obviously intended as a figurative (I'm talking about in general, not on the blog). On the blog's comment section, she eventually went on to say that saying people have sexual needs implies that you in question think that people (or just "women") "should" have sex with you, and that because you have needs if they don't want to meet your needs by fucking you there's something wrong with them (or at least you look down upon them). Of course, a rapist or rape supporter definitely thinks like this (I somewhat agree with TNB that most of the blogger's statments had a kernel of truth in them, but IMO it's so twisted that getting to that truth is like fetching a needle from a soggy haystack). However, that's not what most people mean when they speak of sexual needs. This type of strawman thinking espoused by the blogger is greatly fueled by people (as I have seen on here) taking the concept of sexual needs at literal value and entering an agonizing circular philosophical debate on it. When someone says they have sexual "needs", it's far more akin to saying "Daaaayum, I need some of that Dr. Pepper right now, man. I got these needs, you know what I'm saying?". Unless you are just trying to troll and piss them off, I highly doubt that you are going to lecture them on how Dr. Pepper was not invented until the 1880's, humanity has done fine without it, and that you don't actually need Dr. Pepper to survive.

It's called nuance, folks.

Also, on the rape culture bit, I think that Congregationists went into some good detail 20 some pages back about the way it is percieved, what's really fueling it, and what we can do to reduce some of the notions and myths about rape. As an obligatory, I'm going to point out for the 1,000th time that many myths concerning rape itself stem from an even greater myth that rape is about sex and lust, while as a whole it is not (sure there are outliers, but I'm talking about motivation for rape as a whole). I think Congregationists, be it his will, will be able to direct you back to some of his older posts or even elaborate on some of the current sub-issues being discussed

Imagine that.

[The Atlantean Menace]

In going this far, I think mainstream feminist ideology has done well. Where I part paths with the Eves of this world is that they see the solution in simply attacking the male script and men who adhere to it, and apparantly want to make the female script universal. Feminists really don't do public relations well. People who are attacked will tend to, well, surprise surprise, defend themselves, and retreat further into their ego-fortress state.

Thank you for saying this. I always try to point out to people that just yelling "sexist" or "homophobe" or whatever at an offending group just makes them even less likely to change their opinion.

Capiche?

Yes. I agree with what you said - the way society conditions males and females probably worsens the problem of rape. However, I still find the article in question to be absurd. What you're saying is perfectly rational. What she's saying is perfectly irrational. Saying that the "conquest" aspect of our culture could lead to rape is pretty clear to anyone who thinks about it. Saying that being pro-life means you support rape...um...isn't. Same with legalized prostitution or viewing pornography.

[The Congregationists]

Yes. I agree with what you said - the way society conditions males and females probably worsens the problem of rape. However, I still find the article in question to be absurd. What you're saying is perfectly rational. What she's saying is perfectly irrational. Saying that the "conquest" aspect of our culture could lead to rape is pretty clear to anyone who thinks about it. Saying that being pro-life means you support rape...um...isn't. Same with legalized prostitution or viewing pornography.

As I've said previously, I think that the blog is arguing from intimidation against a number of sexually libertarian and conservative stances that the author disagrees with. It intends to extort your agreement with the author's stances on pornography, abortion and other 'feminist' issues by stating that disagreement amounts ot support of rape. Since a rape supporter is something that no one wants to be, you are compelled to agree with her stances on the issues in the list. The blog exemplifies the tendancy of those who hold its stances to want to be morally and intellectually superior, unless you share those stances. That's a big, big problem with progressive thought these days.

[Andaluciae]

Yes. I agree with what you said - the way society conditions males and females probably worsens the problem of rape. However, I still find the article in question to be absurd. What you're saying is perfectly rational. What she's saying is perfectly irrational. Saying that the "conquest" aspect of our culture could lead to rape is pretty clear to anyone who thinks about it. Saying that being pro-life means you support rape...um...isn't. Same with legalized prostitution or viewing pornography.

As I've said previously, I think that the blog is arguing from intimidation against a number of sexually libertarian and conservative stances that the author disagrees with. It intends to extort your agreement with the author's stances on pornography, abortion and other 'feminist' issues by stating that disagreement amounts ot support of rape. Since a rape supporter is something that no one wants to be, you are compelled to agree with her stances on the issues in the list. The blog exemplifies the tendancy of those who hold its stances to want to be morally and intellectually superior, unless you share those stances. That's a big, big problem with progressive thought these days.

There's a sense, at least to me, that within the progressive and conservative movements, a lot of people are stuck somewhere in the safety-belonging needs transition on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Either a failure to establish moral security within ones own beliefs, and perceiving others conflicting beliefs as a threat to their own moral self identification, or a misplaced conviction that converting others to your own belief set will buy you belonging. Not sure, though.

[The Congregationists]

There's a sense, at least to me, that within the progressive and conservative movements, a lot of people are stuck somewhere in the safety-belonging needs transition on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Either a failure to establish moral security within ones own beliefs, and perceiving others conflicting beliefs as a threat to their own moral self identification, or a misplaced conviction that converting others to your own belief set will buy you belonging. Not sure, though.

That's probobly about 90% of the culture war in a nutshell. Kudos on your observation. You see past the facade.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

I think Congregationists, be it his will, will be able to direct you back to some of his older posts or even elaborate on some of the current sub-issues being discussed.

Well, don't quote me on anything, and don't go asking me to comb 69 pages to reference my earlier posts, because I'm a busy man and could frankly be bothered. I'll happily state my opinion on the concept of a 'rape culture' if you will.

I subscribe to a theory of "sexual scripts." A sexual script refers to a set of instructions given people by the assorted institutions and culture they come into contact with daily - family, peer groups, media, so on and so on. These instructions cover how people are to think and act when it comes to sexual relations. While the sexual scripts are far from monolithic and have come under challenge in the last half century, they tend to revolve around the concepts of gender identity. "Rape Culture" arises from the sexual script given to women and the sexual script given to men working at cross purposes to eachother, and encourage a cycle of objectification that ends up making violent sexual acts perpetrated by men against women more likely.

Summarized very briefly, the male sexual script encourages men to identify their manhood by the number of women he sexually conquors. The female sexual script encourages women to identify their womanhood by the number of men she sexually rejects. Let us assume a given male, we'll call him "Dave" and say he strongly identifies with the male script. So Dave aspires to be a Leisure Suit Larry kind of guy. He's out to bed every woman he meets. And this is important to him. This is what makes him a "man" and identifying as such is critical in a patriarchal, highly sexually dimorphous society. If he fails to adhere to and succeed with his script, his status as "male" is tarnished, and this is bad because this is a priviliged status in the culture he comes from.

So he hits the singles bars and is promptly shot down in flames by every woman he meets, because her scripts stringently require her to do so, and are no doubt reinforced by Dave's chauvenism and implicit desire to see them only as means to his end of reinforcing his identity and acting out his script. This is an affront to Dave on several levels: he's feeling rejected and is sexually frustrated, but these are further magnified by his belief that he must bed these women if he is to be a "real man." So his views towards women become increasingly bitter. Rejection is easier to bare if it comes from those we don't like or despise somehow. Dave softens the blow by thinking to himself "they're just stupid prudes" or the like. People who's purpose is to fulfill a certain role for his benefit are not doing so. If Dave is also a psychologically insecure or unstable man or is prone to violence, the likelihood that he'll rape goes up.

That's a highly simplified example of one aspect of how it works. Having said all of this, we in no way absolve the Daves of this world from responsibility for their actions. If he does end up raping, he ought to do time for it. But there's wisdom in the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, it would be worth looking at how we as a society promote and uphold this paradgm.

In going this far, I think mainstream feminist ideology has done well. Where I part paths with the Eves of this world is that they see the solution in simply attacking the male script and men who adhere to it, and apparantly want to make the female script universal. Feminists really don't do public relations well. People who are attacked will tend to, well, surprise surprise, defend themselves, and retreat further into their ego-fortress state. Men cannot realistically be expected to abandon their script in surrender to the female script, for better or worse, this identity is a part of what these men are and to do so would be utter anathema to them. While your typical male chauvenist troll's responses to Eve's blog are boorish and repugnant, who would really expect otherwise? Demanding the wholesale neutering of the male and his utter exclusion from sexual and emotional relations with women not a serious argument for change but provocation; its own form of trolling. Also, if the female script is universal, heterosexual relations will cease to exist, which might serve the often denied bitterness of these kinds of feminist extremists well, but is that what we as a culture really want?

My opinion, though it's "belling the cat" to be sure, is to move both sexes away from stringent ego-identification with their respective scripts and into a more balanced and mutually respectful form of sexual relationship. This will ultimately mean softening stances on both sides.

Capiche?

This is why I included the bolded. I figured that if it was not your will to dig through old posts but it was your will to clarify, you might lay it out directly (as opposed to in passing) as you just did in this post. The reason I specifically mentioned you is because I found myself fervently agreeing with some things you mentioned before about what exactly true "rape culture" is, and I saw that you have been making nothing but increasingly good points on the matter as a whole (this latest post shows even more). I can't help but continuously say "Yes, yes, yes, yes!" as I further read your posts.

As for your response in the spoiler, I think that this was brilliant, and exactly what I was looking for in the "rape culture" dispute. I think that these male and female sexual "scripts" if you will are very much rooted in oppressive, Asarian, Old-Aeon concepts of oppression and inhibition.

For example, the male "script" is based on a perceived need to bed everyone they meet or to possibly resort to violence in order to preserve their "manhood" and compensate for a lack of confidence. This type of scripting or framing of the mind in this Old-Aeon notion can lead to them being enraged enough that they would thwart and otherwise not respect the wills of others, and thus engage in both egotistical oppression of one's self and perceptive oppression of others.

As for the female "script", this is a form of deep inhibition and erotophobia resulting from the Old-Aeon concept of the "chaste woman". I'll refer to Chapter III, Line 55 and 56 of the Book of the Law: "Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you! Also for beauty's sake and love's!", (this is not an instruction to hate all women who have not yet had sex, but more with the destruction of the aforementioned concept of the chaste woman and inhibition or supposed "purity"), which actually fits well with the separation from the egotistical concept of feeling "scripted" to resist sexuality, or "female script" which you describe.

When you make this point,

Also, if the female script is universal, heterosexual relations will cease to exist, which might serve the often denied bitterness of these kinds of feminist extremists well, but is that what we as a culture really want?

I agree that the cessation of such relations, and love in general by universalizing one of the Asarian sexual scripts would be to the ultimate detriment of us. To this end, I thought I might add another appropriate line from the Book of the Law (Chapter I, Line 41):

The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell.

If we are to soften such stances and "scripts", then we must recognize them for the Old-Aeon, slave-like concepts that they are and work against their extremes on what planes we find them. Feel free to hit me back, as in my experience I am greatly in agreement with many of your points, and always welcome your opinion.