Should the U.S. support Israel?

by **Dyakovo** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:28 pm

Genivaria wrote:Do you think that the United States should be supporting Israel, why or why not?

No. They should stand or fall based on their own abilities/merits, not rely on the US to act as their club on the international stage.

by **AlexJacobii** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Finium wrote:
AlexJacobii wrote:We should not support them, in fact we should invade them the next time they step out of line. Make sure to hoist a swastika flag over Jerusalem and remind them that they are nothing without our backing and that that will happen again if we did not aid them.

This is very true. If the US was a world empire, sorry, if the US was publicly a world empire than none of these things would be an issue

Exactly. If we started acting like the Reich we were built to be(Blue Book is a Prussian military book...making us a Reich.) then Israel wouldn't dare argue with us. Terrorist attacks would still happen but Pakistan wouldn't dare shelter them.

by **Shikarta** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:36 pm

What's not to like about a militaristic, nuclear, ethno-centric police-state founded on terror?

by **Finium** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:37 pm

Shikarta wrote:What's not to like about a militaristic, nuclear, ethno-centric police-state founded on terror?

What, you mean the USA?

by **AlexJacobii** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:38 pm

Finium wrote:
Shikarta wrote:What's not to like about a militaristic, nuclear, ethno-centric police-state founded on terror?

What, you mean the USA?

No, Israel. Even the Soviets would not claim we were founded on terror, maybe BY terror but never on.

by **Shikarta** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Finium wrote:
Shikarta wrote:What's not to like about a militaristic, nuclear, ethno-centric police-state founded on terror?

What, you mean the USA?

Isrealol. The United States isn't an ethno-state (any longer).

by **Augarundus** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:41 pm

States should not exist; neither Israel nor the US has the moral right to coerce its populace.

by **Finium** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:43 pm

Augarundus wrote:States should not exist; neither Israel nor the US has the moral right to coerce its populace.

Actually they do, such says social contract, government philosophy and social philosophy

by **Shikarta** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:47 pm

Augarundus wrote:States should not exist; neither Israel nor the US has the moral right to coerce its populace.

Interestingly the OP never specified Isreali/American states, so the question could equally apply to Israeli/American nations (including voluntary collectives). Nevertheless inb4 you derail this topic with an answer to a question the OP never asked.

As an anti-statist I actually agree with you, but it's the kind of libertarian drone answer that others just roll their eyes at, I'm afraid.

by **The Grand Network** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:52 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Do you think that the United States should be supporting Israel, why or why not?

No. They should stand or fall based on their own abilities/merits, not rely on the US to act as their club on the international stage.

Seeing our history of supporting them in the past, it's kind of our unfortunate duty to defend the only democracy in the Middle East. We'd be real dicks if we all of a sudden decided to not care.

by **SimVillia** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:57 pm

Zhugyu wrote:No. Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions.

Oh my I raged hard. Yet another "Wah Wah Palestine is being oppressed" organization.

by **Calixs** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:58 pm

Terra Agora wrote:Should we trade with it? Yes
Should we stay "friends"? Sure
Should we support them militarily? No
Should we support everything they do? No

^

by **Genivaria** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:59 pm

I can't believe this thread is still going. I'm so proud.

by **Dyakovo** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:00 pm

The Grand Network wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:No. They should stand or fall based on their own abilities/merits, not rely on the US to act as their club on the international stage.

Seeing our history of supporting them in the past, it's kind of our unfortunate duty to defend the only democracy in the Middle East.

I disagree.

The Grand Network wrote:We'd be real dicks if we all of a sudden decided to not care.

I'm fine with that.

by **SD_Film Artists** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:03 pm

We [America and Europe] should still support them; but lower their military aid when they demolish Palestinian homes, continue with illegal settlements and other war crimes.

They're our friends, but we can't give them a blank cheque of support- they should be accountable for their actions.

by **Finium** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:05 pm

SD_Film Artists wrote:We [America and Europe] should still support them; but lower their military aid when they demolish Palestinian homes, continue with illegal settlements and other war crimes.

They're our friends, but we can't give them a blank cheque of support- they should be accountable for their actions.

Actually we can, the question is should we

by **Shikarta** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:07 pm

SimVillia wrote:
Zhugyu wrote:No. Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions.
Oh my I raged hard. Yet another "Wah Wah Palestine is being oppressed" organization.

I know, right? The monsters are even campaigning against Semitic apartheid!

In all honesty, would you not prefer that Palestinian resistance was manifest through this medium rather than armed violence?

by **Naurobia** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:26 pm

I don't think we should right now because of the way they treat the Palestinian people. For now I think we should cut off all support to israel until they shape up their attitude.

by **Fellrike** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:43 pm

I support America's alliance with Israel, like most of my countrymen. Israel has been a steadfast ally. And they are good fighters.

by **Shofercia** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:48 am

Call to power wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Not our problem.

oh look an American.

Wanting his tax dollars going towards fixing his country's economy, instead of international policing, just like the majority of countries do. Damn him, let's waste more on the military industrial complex! /sarcasm

Call to power wrote:
Solyhniya wrote:Exactly, try being gay in any other Middle Eastern country and see how far you get. Also, try practising freedom of religion anywhere else in the Middle East. Then tell me how evil Israel is compared to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Iran... etc.

Turkey, Cyprus and the rest

Cyprus is primarily Greek and Christian. The only part of Cyprus belonging to Turks is North Cyprus, and that was acquired as a result of the Turkish Army landing on Cyprus. Not exactly a story of peace and tolerance.

Conserative Morality wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Should I be concerned that so many rightists agree with me on this?

Yes. We should not remain 'Friends' with Israel. We shouldn't even remain allies. They are not an asset to us, they are only a drain, which counts out allies, and the idea of 'Friends' in international politics is laughable.

Russia-Belarus-Kazakhstan. Now what?

Mahdah wrote:America Fucked up isreal already

What did America do to detriment Israel?

Darenjo wrote:We tried that. It's called the Clinton and Bush Administrations.

And, um, if "soft power" mattered more than actual power, then Iran and North Korea would not have nukes, America would take orders from China, Russia would be a gigantic corporation-state, etc. "Hard" power still matters. A lot. America just doesn't know when to use it.

No, it wouldn't. Corporate Russia failed when US still had plenty of "soft power" - see Russian Economic crash of 1998. And what orders is America taking from China? And when did Iran get nukes?

Darenjo wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Clinton style mixture of soft and hard power is what moves a country forward. Arguably, Obama style mixture of soft and hard power also works wonders.

Clinton-style, yes. Obama-style, meh. I'm pretty sure that at least half of the people in Congress read the healthcare law after it was passed.

Clinton is like Toyota - moving you forward, even when no one wants to. Clinton offered short term solutions to long term problems, and when you apply a band aid to solve an infection - the consequences aren't pleasant.

Lackadaisical2 wrote:Ah... the Saudis alreayd kicked A-Q out of their country

When?

Ierushalaim wrote:US should support Israel morally but not financially. It should also cut (military) aid to Egypt, Jordan and the PA/Hamas. Combined, these three receive more than Israel does. Seems nonsensical unless the US is making something on the deal, e.g., keeping the orders flowing for US defence contractors and preventing Israel from developing alternative weapons systems, particularly aircraft.

US is aiding Hamas?

Conserative Morality wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:Anyone who voted "yes" is a Jihad supporter.

Anyone who voted no hates Jews.

Anyone who didn't understand sarcasm, thought this was a serious statement

by **Snoefsnuif** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:55 am

Has anyone of you noticed yet that Israel is in charge of the USA, so you will continue to support it?

by **Crabulonia** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:26 am

Say Germany started a program of social housing, along with supporting charities that wanted to build houses, and built houses in unused parts of the French-German border. These houses are only allowed to be occupied by people with 'German' blood. Due to self-determination the border starts to shift and Germany expands - probably into Alsace-Lorraine as there is no clear natural frontier there. There would quite rightfully be an outcry against it by the French people and government.

Now that I think about it, what legal recourse would be possible and does this make a bloodless conquest of Europe entirely possible just by building houses?

by **Scientific socks** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:37 am

Israel is by far the lesser of the evils in the region. Surrounding it on almost every single side you have a brutal dictatorship.

Israel only gets its support as it stands as the only true democracy in the middle east. As soon as Israel gains a dictator it is gone.

by **SD_Film Artists** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:28 am

Scientific socks wrote:Israel is by far the lesser of the evils in the region. Surrounding it on almost every single side you have a brutal dictatorship.

Israel only gets its support as it stands as the only true democracy in the middle east. As soon as Israel gains a dictator it is gone.

This^

by **Crabulonia** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:45 am

Scientific socks wrote:Israel is by far the lesser of the evils in the region. Surrounding it on almost every single side you have a brutal dictatorship.

Israel only gets its support as it stands as the only true democracy in the middle east. As soon as Israel gains a dictator it is gone.

Does America support every democracy?

Should the U.S. support Israel?

Should the United States continue to support Israel?

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