Should the U.S. support Israel?

[EnragedMaldivians]

You know - you don't support them militarily just to show off, but because it's profitable to do so. Maybe it's not a good idea to let the countries you trade with, or have important resources you don't - blow each other up into smithereens.

Ahh yes the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been so profitable.

Did I say that EVERY SINGLE INTANCE of it was profitable and in your interests. Perhaps there's a middle ground between complete isolationism and gratuitous interventionism. Keep a sphere when it's in your interests - don't when it's not. Simple.

Exactly, try being gay in any other Middle Eastern country and see how far you get.

Yes, in other parts of the Middle East, you think you were in the United States.

Yes it's really cute that some people think that the level of theological insanity in the Middle East and in the U.S are somehow equivalent. Is there homophobia in the U.S? Yes. Is it a punishable offense? No.

Do you realize just how insulting that is to people in the Muslim world who fight against these types of prejudices?

[Terra Agora]

Ahh yes the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been so profitable.

You supported, actually, DO support Europe militarily.

And that HAS been profitable.

English please.

[Keronians]

You supported, actually, DO support Europe militarily.

And that HAS been profitable.

English please.

What?

That's perfectly understandable.

You have, and still do, support Europe militarily. And that HAS been profitable.

Ergo, you should maintain spheres of influence in some parts, but not in others where it's just a drain.

[Tekania]

Yes it's really cute that some people think that the level of theological insanity in the Middle East and in the U.S are somehow equivalent. Is there homophobia in the U.S? Yes. Is it a punishable offense? No.

Do you realize just how insulting that is to people in the Muslim world who fight against these types of prejudices?

Actually, more like that in the US (overall) it's treated fairly similar to Turkey, Jordan, Cyprus or Iraq. And that there is certainly elemental support in the US of measures very similar to the more militant Islamic Nations; just look at US Christian Fundamentalist Support of the measures in Uganda... My ultimate point is that we're closer to Jordan or Turkey, than Israel. Not to hit upon that Islamic faith is evil, nor on an idea that Americans regularly execute homosexuals.

[Terra Agora]

Ahh yes the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been so profitable.

Did I say that EVERY SINGLE INTANCE of it was profitable and in your interests. Perhaps there's a middle ground between complete isolationism and gratuitous interventionism. Keep a sphere when it's in your interests - don't when it's not. Simple.

Who wants isolationism. Free trade =/= isolationism.
Name one war that has been profitable.

[Pope Joan]

Israel IS terrorism.

For decades, its leaders were all proven terrorists.

It has laughed in the face of peace efforts. For every ineffective rocket launched at it, it has killed many civilians and destroyed infrastructure, without cause. Then it calls Gazans primitive because they have o lighting or power. It will not even let me import cement to Gaza to repair this devastation.

It demanded "democratic" elections in Gaza but when the internationally supervised elections resulted in a defeat for its puppets and an election of Hamas, it refused to recognize the results. "Oh but they are TERRORISTS!!!
See above.

For sixty years the US has given many millions of aid to Zion which has not been acknowledged as such, since it came in the form of "loans", for which interest payments were always later excused. Hey guys, we need to balance our budget. so pay up!

Iraq was never our enemy but Israel said "attack!" so we did so, to our great loss.

Israel has been by far the most supported "ally" of the US, but it has all been a one sided alliance.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mears ... rael-lobby

The Zionist unofficial lobby (mostly unregistered) has huge influence in D.C.

Look at control of the media
http://www.prisonplanet.com/zionist-lob ... olicy.html

http://antonyloewenstein.com/2011/05/19 ... in-the-us/

If you want a wise perspective on Zionism, consult Abraham Heschel http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/new ... ist-1.5002

[EnragedMaldivians]

You supported, actually, DO support Europe militarily.

And that HAS been profitable.

English please.

The Marshall Plan was containment as much as it was investment - you rebuilt their industrial base, so as to preserve a vibrant West-European Economy you could trade with.

Did I say that EVERY SINGLE INTANCE of it was profitable and in your interests. Perhaps there's a middle ground between complete isolationism and gratuitous interventionism. Keep a sphere when it's in your interests - don't when it's not. Simple.

Who wants isolationism. Free trade =/= isolationism.
Name one war that has been profitable.

The liberation of Kuwait. In the long term.

Good luck trading with Saudi Arabia for it's oil, or at the very least keeping energy prices low when they start trading missiles with Iran. If you don't want that to happen - keep a military presence for containment purposes.

There's a reason foreign policy making isn't very democratic. Thank you for demonstraing why.

[Terra Agora]

English please.

What?

That's perfectly understandable.

You have, and still do, support Europe militarily. And that HAS been profitable.

Ergo, you should maintain spheres of influence in some parts, but not in others where it's just a drain.

I do? Thanks for telling me. I never knew.

[Keronians]

Did I say that EVERY SINGLE INTANCE of it was profitable and in your interests. Perhaps there's a middle ground between complete isolationism and gratuitous interventionism. Keep a sphere when it's in your interests - don't when it's not. Simple.

Who wants isolationism. Free trade =/= isolationism.
Name one war that has been profitable.

The Second World War.

[Keronians]

What?

That's perfectly understandable.

You have, and still do, support Europe militarily. And that HAS been profitable.

Ergo, you should maintain spheres of influence in some parts, but not in others where it's just a drain.

I do? Thanks for telling me. I never knew.

*Sigh*

By you, I meant the USA.

[Terra Agora]

Who wants isolationism. Free trade =/= isolationism.
Name one war that has been profitable.

The Second World War.

See inflation, debt, government take over of business, etc. Not profitable.

[Keronians]

The Second World War.

See inflation, debt, government take over of business, etc. Not profitable.

See: solved problem of unemployment and solving of many underlying economic problems of the USA, the result of the war guaranteeing the US a market in western Europe and granting it superpower status.

Profitable.

[Terra Agora]

See inflation, debt, government take over of business, etc. Not profitable.

See: solved problem of unemployment and solving of many underlying economic problems of the USA, the result of the war guaranteeing the US a market in western Europe and granting it superpower status.

Profitable.

lol Really?

Sure, the war brought us out of the depression. If you don't mind all the deaths and destructon. And the hardships imposed by rationing. Because nothing helps eliminate demand of certain things and encourages the merchants of death like a good wholesale slaughter of a generation.

EDIT: I almost forgot see "broken window fallacy"

[Keronians]

See: solved problem of unemployment and solving of many underlying economic problems of the USA, the result of the war guaranteeing the US a market in western Europe and granting it superpower status.

Profitable.

lol Really?

Sure, the war brought us out of the depression. If you don't mind all the deaths and destructon. And the hardships imposed by rationing. Because nothing helps eliminate demand of certain things and encourages the merchants of death like a good wholesale slaughter of a generation.

It was still a profitable war, albeit one in which the US had to suffer.

To be fair though, the US suffered much less than other countries where fighting actually took place.

[Terra Agora]

lol Really?

Sure, the war brought us out of the depression. If you don't mind all the deaths and destructon. And the hardships imposed by rationing. Because nothing helps eliminate demand of certain things and encourages the merchants of death like a good wholesale slaughter of a generation.

It was still a profitable war, albeit one in which the US had to suffer.

To be fair though, the US suffered much less than other countries where fighting actually took place.

Show me the profit. There were no gains. Like I already explained, your just making a broken window fallacy.

[Keronians]

It was still a profitable war, albeit one in which the US had to suffer.

To be fair though, the US suffered much less than other countries where fighting actually took place.

Show me the profit. There were no gains. Like I already explained, your just making a broken window fallacy.

So basically, you want me to give you the name of a war which you entered specifically to gain a profit?

[Terra Agora]

Show me the profit. There were no gains. Like I already explained, your just making a broken window fallacy.

So basically, you want me to give you the name of a war which you entered specifically to gain a profit?

I am not the US.

[Keronians]

So basically, you want me to give you the name of a war which you entered specifically to gain a profit?

I am not the US.

Sorry. I thought you were an American. Could have sworn I saw you mention it.

Anyway, is that what you want me to give you?

EDIT: In any event, an investment (a good one, anyway) is always long-term. It is costly and a burden in the short-term, however, in the long-term, it helps you and becomes an asset of yours.

Western Europe was an investment. In the long-term, it has given the US powerful allies, a huge market for American goods, a source for new ideas and products, and military bases.

It was a good investment.

[EnragedMaldivians]

So basically, you want me to give you the name of a war which you entered specifically to gain a profit?

I am not the US.

Imvestments aren't profitable they very moment you make them....please get that through your head.

In the long run - containing Soviet Expansionism in Western Europe, and doling out the Marshall Plan was profitable.

In the long run - supporting Saudi Arabia and keeping military bases in the peninsular has kept energy prices low. Are you really that dense?

[Terra Agora]

I am not the US.

Sorry. I thought you were an American. Could have sworn I saw you mention it.

Anyway, is that what you want me to give you?

A war that was profitable.

I am an "American." I was born in the US. I am not the US.

[Terra Agora]

I am not the US.

Imvestments aren't profitable they very moment you make them....please get that through your head.

In the long run - containing Soviet Expansionism in Western Europe, and doling out the Marshall Plan was profitable.

In the long run - supporting Saudi Arabia and keeping military bases in the peninsular has kept energy prices low. Are you really that dense?

Not really wars and not really profitable. Just price manipulation (in the case of SA).

[EnragedMaldivians]

Imvestments aren't profitable they very moment you make them....please get that through your head.

In the long run - containing Soviet Expansionism in Western Europe, and doling out the Marshall Plan was profitable.

In the long run - supporting Saudi Arabia and keeping military bases in the peninsular has kept energy prices low. Are you really that dense?

Not really wars and not really profitable. Just price manipulation (in the case of SA).

Look it's not the war itself that's profitable - it's protecting, deterring threats, that would destroy the markets that you trade with. Obviously you would want to avoid war - but excercising a protective sphere for the viable functioning of that market would require a tangible threat of force if provoked.

The deterrence and containment wouldn't work without military aid - without which you couldn't "manipulate" the price of oil in Saudi Arabia. Security gurantees is what they want in return for being a positive swing producer.

WW2 industrial mobilization was profitable though.

[Keronians]

Imvestments aren't profitable they very moment you make them....please get that through your head.

In the long run - containing Soviet Expansionism in Western Europe, and doling out the Marshall Plan was profitable.

In the long run - supporting Saudi Arabia and keeping military bases in the peninsular has kept energy prices low. Are you really that dense?

Not really wars and not really profitable. Just price manipulation (in the case of SA).

Without the wars, you would have nowhere to enter to make your profits.

[Terra Agora]

Not really wars and not really profitable. Just price manipulation (in the case of SA).

Look it's not the war itself that's profitable - it's protecting, deterring threats, that would destroy the markets that you trade with. Obviously you would want to avoid war - but excercising a protective sphere for the viable functioning of that market would require a tangible threat of force if provoked.

The deterrence and containment wouldn't work without military aid - without which you couldn't "manipulate" the price of oil in Saudi Arabia. Security gurantees is what they want in return for being a positive swing producer.

WW2 industrial mobilization was profitable though.

Once again broken window.
Its really quite simple...

[Terra Agora]

Not really wars and not really profitable. Just price manipulation (in the case of SA).

Without the wars, you would have nowhere to enter to make your profits.

lolwut?