Should the U.S. support Israel?

[Conserative Morality]

Lies.

^Communist lies, and thus doubly false.

[Wienholdland]

Lies.

^Communist lies, and thus doubly false.

[Esoterias]

^Communist lies, and thus doubly false.

[Wienholdland]

[Mygdonia]

I'M NOT FROM THE STATES AND I DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE WHAT THE STATE OF ISRAEL HAS DONE TO THE PALESTINIAN NATION OVER THE YEARS,BUT TALKING ABOUT US INTERESTS I THINK ABANDONING ISRAEL WOULD BE STRATEGICALLY DISASTROUS.
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE IS(NOT UNAVOIDABLY) DECLINING.LOOSING SUCH A POWERFUL AND FRIENDLY ALLY AT THIS MOMENT WOULD ONLY SERVE RUSSIAN AND CHINESE INTERESTS.
BECAUSE WE ARE BOMBARDED (AND RIGHTFULLY SO) WITH INFORMATION OF ISRAELI ABUSE OF PALESTINIANS WE TEND TO FORGET THAT ITS NEIGHBORS,LIKE TURKEY EGYPT AND SYRIA ARE OPPRESSIVE STATES AS WELL,WITH LITTLE POLITICAL FREEDOMS AND FREQUENT ABUSE OF MINORITIES(SEE TURKISH GENOCIDES, TURKISH AND SYRIAN OPPRESSION OF KURDS,TERRORISM ON CHRISTIANS IN EGYPT ETC.) .
IN THE LONG RUN AMERICA WOULD ONLY EARN SOME SYMPATHY AMONG ARABS,BUT KNOWING THE DEEP ANTIAMERICANISM IN THE REGION AND THE VERY STRONG INFLUENCE OF RIVALS LIKE RUSSIA AND IRAN THE US WOULD BE GRADUALLY ISOLATED.
WHAT AMERICAN DIPLOMATS SHOULD DO IS TO PRESS ISRAELIS TO FINALLY ACCEPT A TWO STATE SOLUTION,WHICH NATURALLY WILL LEAD TO LASTING PEACE,BUT NOT ABANDONING AN ALLIANCE IN WHICH THE US HAS INVESTED SO MUCH.

[Katonazag]

To the OP:
I think that the US should support Israel, as it's really the only thing keeping any sort of semblance of balance of power in the area of region. US involvement is the only thing standing between the status quo and the inevitable conclusion: a war in which one side will wipe out the other. Anyone who thinks there can be a lasting co-existent peace between Israel and the Palestinians is overly optimistic. If the US abandons Israel, there will be no reason for Israel's neighbors and other Islam-driven nations not to seize the opportunity and fulfill their desire to see Israel destroyed. Given, the status quo is not ideal (or acceptable) from either side's standpoint, I think it is preferable from most of the outside world's standpoint to going straight to a war of annihilation in the area. If the US steps out of the picture, this is what comes next.

[Saiwania]

What, may I ask, is a western nation doing in the middle east?

We should encourage as much of the world as possible to follow western style democracy/capitalism in my view, because that would suit the developed world's interests the best.

I don't buy into racist stereotypes; and the onus is on you to prove that Palestinians are "nothing more than a large enclave of jihadists". I'd just like to point out something here: it was Israel that in 1948 stole most of the Palestinian's land, encroached further in 1967, made a slight and completely inadequate concession when it withdrew from the Gaza Strip (a tainted victory, because it soon imposed a siege on Gaza), and which continues to encroach upon Palestinian land in the West Bank. Palestinians are perfectly justified in demanding their land back. Of course those currently living in Israel can't be blamed for what their ancestors did, and they should be allowed to continue living there (although they do have a moral responsibility to oppose their state). But Israel as a state doesn't really have much of a right to exist; it was founded on theft. The creation of a single Palestinian state that incorporates all the land currently occupied by Israel, in which Jews would of course be allowed to live but in which there would be a right of return for Palestinian refugees and an affirmative action programme aimed at decreasing inequality between Jews and Palestinians, is the only solution that will be both viable and moral.

"Palestine" never truly existed as an independent nation and thus has less basis in reality than Israel has and furthermore, the Arabs brought it upon themselves in attacking Israel in the first place. They got defeated multiple times so now they ought to live with the consequence of having less land. Might makes right, Israel never even had to grant any concessions as it was in a position of strength.

What's also interesting is that the term "Palestinian" didn't exist until after 1967. The term is a modern revisionist political invention. In fact, most Palestinians are really from Jordan or other neighboring Arab states. The Jewish people on the other hand, really did originate from ancient Israel and so they do have a legitimate claim to the land now that they can back it up with force.

The creation of "Palestine" was just as much based on theft if not more so, because the Roman empire conquered Judea and subsequently expelled the Jews and severely repressed them. Then after centuries of struggle, when the Jews finally started coming back to their original homeland the people who took over the land after their expulsion are crying foul. The conflict is obviously not over land but rather over religion.

The "Palestinians" are really just Jordanians who don't want a separate state or truce with Israel but rather- want all of it. An affirmative action program won't do squat because once again, the conflict between them is not about land or economic disparity but rather over religious/cultural differences. The Arabs don't like having a Jewish state in a predominately Muslim region. Israel by the way, has their own affirmative action program but I'm unsure of how it's performing or the particulars. The only side that wants to keep the conflict alive between them is the "Palestinians" while what the Israelis do is just in reaction/retaliation for what actions the Palestinians take.

Perhaps if Israel had never stolen their land and then continued to commit injustice upon injustice upon them, they would never have turned to a terrorist organization to help them. Perhaps if Israel didn't continuously attempt to bomb them into the ground, they would never launch rockets at the Israelis. Israel only has itself to blame for that problem.

^See above, the Israelis never stole land from the Palestinians because the land was never rightfully theirs to begin with. They just want Israel to cease to exist and be replaced with a majority Muslim state.

[SD_Film Artists]

Yes, providing that they stop building illegal settlements.

[Wienholdland]

THE AMERICAN EMPIRE IS(NOT UNAVOIDABLY) DECLINING.

It isn't unavoidable. People just generally oppose the measures needed to make America great again.

[SD_Film Artists]

Israel is a modern, western nation whose foreign policy aligns with American and European interests ...

What, may I ask, is a western state doing in the middle east? And why is it that a nation's cultural orientation makes it more worthy of support than other nations?

They are more friendly to us, and trade more.

[Lackadaisical2]

America Fucked up isreal already...they have to help it..

That's a first for me. Whats your rationale?

[Lackadaisical2]

Turkey.

Turkey. Libya after Gadhafi's gone. Maybe Yemen after Saleh's gone. Maybe Egypt depending on how that turns out. Actually, I guess we have to be allies with Yemen because I don't see the Saudi's helping with al Qaeda.

But I agree that Turkey's our best bet in the Middle East.

Ah... the Saudis alreayd kicked A-Q out of their country, and iirc, were helping in operations against them in Northern Yemen.

[AlexJacobii]

I'm curious about NS's opinion on this.

Do you think that the United States should be supporting Israel, why or why not?

I personally believe that we should stop supporting Israel because they are more trouble then they are worth and being there ally makes us enemies of the Islamic world.

We should not support Israel. Considering the fact that they are getting lippy to us now, claim to be "our greatest ally" and yet never send any aid in the wars we are in, they stir up trouble in the Middle East just as much as other terrorist groups, and they have a disproportionate amount of our countries wealth in their possession.

[Wamitoria]

They seem to think we "owe" them for something, and their Prime Minister is interfering in US affairs.

I'm going with no.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Israel is a modern, western nation whose foreign policy aligns with American and European interests ...

What, may I ask, is a western state doing in the middle east? And why is it that a nation's cultural orientation makes it more worthy of support than other nations?

The fact that its foreign policy aligns with American and European interests perfectly demonstrates just how immoral American and European interests currently are.

What - the West wanting to preserve the smooth functioning of their economies, while in return enforcing a sembleance of a security regime in the Middle East? Those interests? How utterly vile.

And you might want to re-read your Gaddis kiddo - America commited to Israel for moral reasons, not geo-political ones. Always a mistake imo - but it is what it is.

Incidentally, I personally want all sorts of bad things to happen to Saudi-Arabia because of their cultural orientation, but that would be disastrous foreign policy. I've said it before, over and over again, the international sphere is not suited to idealism - so yes you're partly right that in general their cultural orientation should not factor into it.

I don't buy into racist stereotypes; and the onus is on you to prove that Palestinians are "nothing more than a large enclave of jihadists". I'd just like to point out something here: it was Israel which in 1948 stole most of the Palestinian's land, encroached further in 1967, made a slight and completely inadequate concession when it withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 (a tainted victory, because it soon imposed a siege on Gaza), and which continues to encroach upon Palestinian land in the West Bank. Palestinians are perfectly justified in demanding their land back. Of course those currently living in Israel can't be blamed for what their ancestors did, and they should be allowed to continue living there (although they do have a moral responsibility to oppose their state). But Israel as a state doesn't really have much of a right to exist; it was founded on theft. The creation of a single Palestinian state which incorporates all the land currently occupied by Israel, in which Jews would of course be allowed to live but in which there would be a right of return for Palestinian refugees and an affirmative action programme aimed at decreasing inequality between Jews and Palestinians, is the only solution that will be both viable and moral.

See - that just holds Israel specifically in opprobrium for something that is not unique to them. Americans do not have a moral obligation to cede back the land they annexed in the Mexican American War - nor do the Australians have a moral obligation to make them selves scarce from the continent. There should be a statute of limitations on these things - of course, I would fully concur that the Arabs have the right to negotiate the reacquisition of land lost to them in the 1967 war, but the State of Israel is internationally recognized as having a right to exist - I see no reason for that to change.

Perhaps if Israel had never stolen their land and then continued to commit injustice upon injustice upon them, they would never have turned to a terrorist organization to help them. Perhaps if Israel didn't continuously attempt to bomb them into the ground, they would never launch rockets at the Israelis. Israel only has itself to blame for that problem.

Oh - those poor darling Arabs. Everyones so mean to them.

Not likes there's prevalent anti-semitism in the Muslim world - but hey, they have a good excuse for it...right?

Incidentally, anything short of a two-state solution is not "Viable."

[-St George]

Yes the U.S should continue to support the only democracy in the middle east, with good human rights and all other kinds of rights. Plus you can buy alcohol there!

Ever heard of Turkey?

[Vellosia]

Not when they abuse that support. Which they have a gross habit of doing.

[Aurora-Nova]

No one should support the Zionist Regime, and in light of the problems their support for the occupiers has caused them in the past, the US should really be the last country to be doing so.

[Arilando]

Depends on what you mean by support. If you mean preventing the massacre of jews than yes.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Yes the U.S should continue to support the only democracy in the middle east, with good human rights and all other kinds of rights. Plus you can buy alcohol there!

Ever heard of Turkey?

Please, please don't insult Turkey by comparing them to the rest of the Middle Eastern states. It is insulting to them and it makes me sad.

(Probably because I'm not from Cyprus.)

[Zombie land of awsome]

This.

This for ALL nations.

i would agree with this type of policy

[Crabulonia]

I've not read any of this thread but I can bet there will be somebody using the term "Ancient Israel" in order to justify the existence of modern Israel. This is a terrible argument for anything.

[New Chalcedon]

I'm curious about NS's opinion on this.

Do you think that the United States should be supporting Israel, why or why not?

I personally believe that we should stop supporting Israel because they are more trouble then they are worth and being there ally makes us enemies of the Islamic world.

The US should support Israel up to a point, for the following reasons:

1) They are an ally - a well-armed, disciplined and formidable - ally of the US.
2) How the US treats Israel will, at this stage, make little enough difference in how Muslims perceive it - those who already want to dislike the US can find plenty of reasons to do so in American actions since 2001, without a need to go looking in proxies' works.

However, this support cannot, as a part of any semi-rational foreign policy, be limitless. For instance, I applaud Obama's recent statement that the 1967 boundaries need to be the basis of any negotiations for a two-state solution, with any deviations mutually agreed to. Israel, frankly, needs to 1) stop building the settlements; and b) stop acting like a schoolyard bully. While I understand the Holocaust's histocial background here, and while I agree that Israel's neighbours haven't exactly been friendly or reasonable, throwing one's weight around rarely endears one to anyone else.

[Ierushalaim]

US should support Israel morally but not financially. It should also cut (military) aid to Egypt, Jordan and the PA/Hamas. Combined, these three receive more than Israel does. Seems nonsensical unless the US is making something on the deal, e.g., keeping the orders flowing for US defence contractors and preventing Israel from developing alternative weapons systems, particularly aircraft.

[Ierushalaim]

I'm curious about NS's opinion on this.

Do you think that the United States should be supporting Israel, why or why not?

I personally believe that we should stop supporting Israel because they are more trouble then they are worth and being there ally makes us enemies of the Islamic world.

The US should support Israel up to a point, for the following reasons:

1) They are an ally - a well-armed, disciplined and formidable - ally of the US.
2) How the US treats Israel will, at this stage, make little enough difference in how Muslims perceive it - those who already want to dislike the US can find plenty of reasons to do so in American actions since 2001, without a need to go looking in proxies' works.

However, this support cannot, as a part of any semi-rational foreign policy, be limitless. For instance, I applaud Obama's recent statement that the 1967 boundaries need to be the basis of any negotiations for a two-state solution, with any deviations mutually agreed to. Israel, frankly, needs to 1) stop building the settlements; and b) stop acting like a schoolyard bully. While I understand the Holocaust's histocial background here, and while I agree that Israel's neighbours haven't exactly been friendly or reasonable, throwing one's weight around rarely endears one to anyone else.

1) Israel has not allowed building by Jews outside of existing "settlements" since the 1990s. Why, I do not know, seems like a racist policy.
2) The Arabs do not respect "niceness" like we seem to do in the west - they see it as weak and contemptible. Israel should not "throw its weight around" - to what are you referring anyway?? - but it must be tough (but fair) with the Arabs who otherwise take advantage. The long game they are playing is a ME with no Jewish state, whereas Israel is happy to live amongst the arabs as long as they are left in peace.