Should religion have a place in Schools

[Robert Magoo]

If you can't read the bible, what's the evidence that they were acting according to the bible?

Because the people they were crusading against were 'worshipping false prophets' and thus 'infidels'?

Suppose there are prophets, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.

The people they went up against worshipped a 'god' of a 'foreign nation'.

But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.

They people they went up against were essentially listening to a 'prophet' from 'another god' who 'falsely' claimed to speak for the supposed 'real god'.

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

An unbelieveress! Kill her (and the guy she is with...). More love 'n' tolerance...

Didn't you just use the Bible, thus proving my point? (Dur)

[F1-Insanity]

Because the people they were crusading against were 'worshipping false prophets' and thus 'infidels'?

Suppose there are prophets, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.

The people they went up against worshipped a 'god' of a 'foreign nation'.

But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.

They people they went up against were essentially listening to a 'prophet' from 'another god' who 'falsely' claimed to speak for the supposed 'real god'.

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

An unbelieveress! Kill her (and the guy she is with...). More love 'n' tolerance...

Didn't you just use the Bible, thus proving my point? (Dur)

Yes, but I suspect some 'unbelievers' will come in and challenge this by yelling 'bigot' or something... just happy to provide some background.

[Samuraikoku]

You don't understand what I'm getting at. Reading a quote from the Bible isn't the same as teaching religion.

I thought you said classes shouldn't use the bible?

I meant "the Bible shouldn't be read in public schools" as in "the Bible should not be taught in public schools", to prevent indoctrination and brainwashing.

[Robert Magoo]

I thought you said classes shouldn't use the bible?

I meant "the Bible shouldn't be read in public schools" as in "the Bible should not be taught in public schools", to prevent indoctrination and brainwashing.

Oh, okay. So you're saying they shouldn't "teach religion," not that they shouldn't use the bible as an educational tool. In that case, I agree with you.

[SpectacularSpectacular]

Not the same Eng Comp class either I suppose.

My point is that you do not need to be taught the religion just to understand the conflict and the reasons for the conflict.

Apparently you missed the point. Surprise, surprise. (See, I can play your idiotic game, too) The idea that using a certain book in class is somehow in violation of law is a stupid and incorrect point. Using the bible to back a claim =/= "teaching religion."

Yet the bible is not needed in the class to back a point. You are searching for a loophole that really is not there, history books cover the basis for the conflict well more than enough. In-fact, the bible would teach nothing of worth on this issue since most history books already address the issues as to why.

The bible is a religious document, not a historical reference or a window into the social mindset of a christian BECAUSE of its christian bias. If you really want to learn why the Christians felt the way they did you would reference psychology or historical documentation. The bible would not add understanding of the Crusades in any way that a common study text book could not, and it could never offer as much information as a study book could.

[Samuraikoku]

Oh, okay. So you're saying they shouldn't "teach religion," not that they shouldn't use the bible as an educational tool. In that case, I agree with you.

Yes, that is what. Not being a native English speaker might have hindered my point.

[Free Soviets]

Now, having said that, I note that I am an Epistemological Pragmatist [...] But on the matter of the Big Bang, I have to ask where all the evidence is. Sure they have provided a number of pieces of the puzzle, but they're nowhere near a complete picture yet. As such, I disbelieve in the theory until such time as a more convincing amount of evidence has been laid before me and expounded logically [...], and even then, I may have doubts as to whether or not all of the variable factors have been accounted for.

You don't sound like a Pragmatist to me....

yeah, seriously. hence my next line.

who needs certainty when you've got spaceships?

May I sig this?

haha, definitely

[Nansurium]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization. So even if you guys don't practice religion or are pure religion haters, it is utter ludicrous not to teach some religious basics in schools simply because of the importance it plays in human development.

[Samuraikoku]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization.

Explain to me how Japan worked it out without Christianism.

[Nansurium]

I don't quite understand what you are asking...perhaps you could clarify...

I do know that every culture in the world developed some type of religion if thats what you are asking...?

[Samuraikoku]

I don't quite understand what you are asking...perhaps you could clarify...

I do know that every culture in the world developed some type of religion if thats what you are asking...?

Bushido was not a religion in and of itself. My point is that Japan's culture wasn't defined by religion, just by philosophy and power alone.

[Ceannairceach]

I don't quite understand what you are asking...perhaps you could clarify...

I do know that every culture in the world developed some type of religion if thats what you are asking...?

Bushido was not a religion in and of itself. My point is that Japan's culture wasn't defined by religion, just by philosophy and power alone.

Considering they selectively borrowed what religions they wanted from China, I'm almost inclined to agree.

[Ceannairceach]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization. So even if you guys don't practice religion or are pure religion haters, it is utter ludicrous not to teach some religious basics in schools simply because of the importance it plays in human development.

I don't think anyone is against teaching religion on a purely historical or comparative level, but instead are against the teaching any faith as "right".

[Samuraikoku]

Bushido was not a religion in and of itself. My point is that Japan's culture wasn't defined by religion, just by philosophy and power alone.

Considering they selectively borrowed what religions they wanted from China, I'm almost inclined to agree.

And practiced none as a whole, Mr. Jesus Christ.

[Ceannairceach]

Considering they selectively borrowed what religions they wanted from China, I'm almost inclined to agree.

And practiced none as a whole, Mr. Jesus Christ.

Well, they did invent Zen Buddhism as I recall, and Shintoism was still pretty big, though that wasn't very strict in any sense.

[Samuraikoku]

And practiced none as a whole, Mr. Jesus Christ.

Well, they did invent Zen Buddhism as I recall, and Shintoism was still pretty big, though that wasn't very strict in any sense.

None of Japan's three Unifiers was guided by any religion, though. Nobunaga Oda only cared about the Jesuits for their gunpowder, Hideyoshi Toyotomi outlawed Christianism because they were... well, the same as now, and Ieyasu Tokugawa didn't give a shit.

[Ceannairceach]

Well, they did invent Zen Buddhism as I recall, and Shintoism was still pretty big, though that wasn't very strict in any sense.

Neither of Japan's three Unifiers was guided by any religion, though. Nobunaga Oda only cared about the Jesuits for their gunpowder, Hideyoshi Toyotomi outlawed Christianism because they were... well, the same as now, and Ieyasu Tokugawa didn't give a shit.

The part about Jesuits and gunpowder sort of proves the point about civilization being affected by religion.

[Samuraikoku]

Neither of Japan's three Unifiers was guided by any religion, though. Nobunaga Oda only cared about the Jesuits for their gunpowder, Hideyoshi Toyotomi outlawed Christianism because they were... well, the same as now, and Ieyasu Tokugawa didn't give a shit.

The part about Jesuits and gunpowder sort of proves the point about civilization being affected by religion.

In no way. Nobunaga could have got the gunpowder from somewhere else (China, for example). The Jesuits wanted to evangelize him, he never paid them any mind. So the Jesuits were just a circumstance.

[Dyakovo]

Oh, okay. So you're saying they shouldn't "teach religion," not that they shouldn't use the bible as an educational tool. In that case, I agree with you.

Yes, that is what. Not being a native English speaker might have hindered my point.

It did a bit...

[Samuraikoku]

Yes, that is what. Not being a native English speaker might have hindered my point.

It did a bit...

I'll be more careful about it.

By the way, is that Morte from Planescape: Torment in your avatar? Always wanted to ask.

[Dyakovo]

It did a bit...

I'll be more careful about it.

By the way, is that Morte from Planescape: Torment in your avatar? Always wanted to ask.

I have no idea... Its just a gif a happened across that I thought would make a good avatar...

[Wiztopia]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization. So even if you guys don't practice religion or are pure religion haters, it is utter ludicrous not to teach some religious basics in schools simply because of the importance it plays in human development.

Well you're right about that. If religion never existed then there would have never been war and the world would have been destroyed by overpopulation millenia ago.

[Dyakovo]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization. So even if you guys don't practice religion or are pure religion haters, it is utter ludicrous not to teach some religious basics in schools simply because of the importance it plays in human development.

Well you're right about that. If religion never existed then there would have never been war and the world would have been destroyed by overpopulation millenia ago.

[Farnhamia]

Religion is an extremely important element of human history. It has, in many ways, defined our culture and our very civilization. So even if you guys don't practice religion or are pure religion haters, it is utter ludicrous not to teach some religious basics in schools simply because of the importance it plays in human development.

What do you mean by "religious basics"? Let's get that straight first.

[Ceannairceach]

The part about Jesuits and gunpowder sort of proves the point about civilization being affected by religion.

In no way. Nobunaga could have got the gunpowder from somewhere else (China, for example). The Jesuits wanted to evangelize him, he never paid them any mind. So the Jesuits were just a circumstance.

That they were circumstantial has no effect on if they had an affect on Japan.