Should religion have a place in Schools

[The Archregimancy]

Considering the prevalence of theists, I'd suggest that religious education is very important to understand views of individuals, promote social cohesion and, most importantly,Creacionusm is Bull Shit.

That way in the Great Nation of Demarlandia the people is learning the History of lost Humanities

General is an out-of-character forum; what happens in Demarlandia is largely irrelevant here.

[San Whoopee]

Well, to all those "design proponents" (read: creationists) out there, I submit to you this:

<sarcasm>
Gravity is "just a theory". "Evidence" of gravity operating is circumstantial; scientists have not come up with an conclusive explanation as to why and how gravity actually operates. In addition, there is evidence to prove that the alternate theory of "intelligent falling" prevails. After all, God, in his loving grace and kindness, would naturally want to keep life on Earth bound to its surface, to shield us from the dangers of the vacuum beyond. Also, quantum mechanics has refuted many of gravitation's claims. However, scientists are intent on excluding proponents of IF, blackballing them from practising in their scientific fields. This blackballing shows that scientists are unsure of their theory of gravity, and are relying on the silence of IF proponents in order to consolidate their shaky position.
</sarcasm>

Get real, people. If science is not allowed in the churches, then keep religion out of the classrooms.*

* If it's an extracurricular study, then by all means, do that. But don't make it official.

[Conscentia]

And if it does how should it be taught;
Extra curricular subject,
Voluntary subject,
Creationism, should it be allowed,
not at all,
blanket teach multiple religions alongside each other,
just the "main" ones,

Thoughts...?

No poll? I'm disappointed...this thread is perfect for a poll.

[Demarlandia]

Arch.....Why you not gives proposal ???Or their position is against some members?
Your position is the most irrelevant.Because anybody knows your viewpoint.......

[Casenia]

Under no circumstances. Religion has nothing to do with teachings at school, nor will it ever have anything to do with it. Religion shouldn't be TAUGHT, it should be VOLUNTARILY CHOSEN.

i agree that everyone should be able to choose for themselves, but this would only work if evolutionism was voluntary also.

[Bottle]

Under no circumstances. Religion has nothing to do with teachings at school, nor will it ever have anything to do with it. Religion shouldn't be TAUGHT, it should be VOLUNTARILY CHOSEN.

i agree that everyone should be able to choose for themselves, but this would only work if evolutionism was voluntary also.

Sadly, evolution ISN'T voluntary, any more than gravity is voluntary, or the Krebs Cycle is voluntary. Natural laws don't care about your feelings or opinions.

[Free Soviets]

are is not should be. and preventing them from including religious indoctrination in their schools in no way undermines freedom of religion. they are still free to have whatever the fuck they want for their religious beliefs and practices (within reason, of course). but running a school is not a religious undertaking, and i see no reason to let them pollute education with their nonsense.

Perhaps it would be edifying for you to observe some science, math or history classes at a religious institution, then? It strikes me that perhaps you have this vision in your mind that religion suffuses and warps every topic at a private, religious institution to the point where the education is compromised. However, given that a school must be accredited in order to have its degrees/diplomas/etc recognized in any official capacity, I do not think the problem of religion in a private school compromises the education to the degree you feel it does.

I think that's the important thing to remember - that there are guidelines in becoming an accredited institution, and they can ensure that educational standards are met.

i'm not necessarily worried just about them fucking up the science, but rather with them building time for indoctrination into the school day at all. basically, there is no positive contribution to be made to education at all by religious indoctrination. so any time devoted to it could be better spent with more time on the playground, for example.

[Casenia]

i agree that everyone should be able to choose for themselves, but this would only work if evolutionism was voluntary also.

Sadly, evolution ISN'T voluntary, any more than gravity is voluntary, or the Krebs Cycle is voluntary. Natural laws don't care about your feelings or opinions.

Evolution is a theory, as everything in science is a theory made to be challenged. if people didnt challenge theories science wouldnt advance. do you think tht how we view atoms was the first way we thought atoms were built? Dalton's theory has been scrapped, but during his time everyone thought it was a natural law and unarguably true. so how we think the world around us works can change. If you could prove evolution, and i mean truly prove, rather than saying it must be true, i would lose my faith in God. but good luck trying to do that.

[Horsefish]

Sadly, evolution ISN'T voluntary, any more than gravity is voluntary, or the Krebs Cycle is voluntary. Natural laws don't care about your feelings or opinions.

Evolution is a theory, as everything in science is a theory made to be challenged. if people didnt challenge theories science wouldnt advance. do you think tht how we view atoms was the first way we thought atoms were built? Dalton's theory has been scrapped, but during his time everyone thought it was a natural law and unarguably true. so how we think the world around us works can change. If you could prove evolution, and i mean truly prove, rather than saying it must be true, i would lose my faith in God. but good luck trying to do that.

Theres mountains of evidence for evolution. We can cause it in bacteria in the laboratry, hell humans are even evolving!

Evolution isn't incompatable with faith but creationism is incompatable with science.

[Gudbai]

In the sense of teaching different religious views, and their impact on history and politics, sure. Otherwise, that's what an individual's place of worship or independent study is for, not their school. Everyone needs an education, everyone does not need indoctrination into any particular religion or lack there of.

If you disagree with this, consider the flip side; what if someone proposed that it be mandatory for your children to learn about and/or observe a religion besides your own? What if it was one that particularly offended you or that is contradictory to your own beliefs? What if your child was prohibited from observing their own religion? What right does any group of people have to dictate what your children should believe and observe?

This is also not to preclude those who would teach intelligent design or similar content to their children, but obviously they must still be knowledgeable of things like evolution and be testable on such content, as it is curriculum, because it is widely held theory, which is the foundation for much other study. Belief in these ideas are not necessary, but understanding and knowledge are. Furthermore, belief doesn't require understanding or knowledge, so learning intelligent design really isn't a prerequisite of belief in your religion. Even if it were, it's only a prerequisite to those who hold the same faith, so it doesn't really have a place in common education and should remain privately taught.

[Bottle]

Sadly, evolution ISN'T voluntary, any more than gravity is voluntary, or the Krebs Cycle is voluntary. Natural laws don't care about your feelings or opinions.

Evolution is a theory, as everything in science is a theory made to be challenged. if people didnt challenge theories science wouldnt advance. do you think tht how we view atoms was the first way we thought atoms were built? Dalton's theory has been scrapped, but during his time everyone thought it was a natural law and unarguably true. so how we think the world around us works can change. If you could prove evolution, and i mean truly prove, rather than saying it must be true, i would lose my faith in God. but good luck trying to do that.

Aaaaaaaand this is why we can't afford to waste time on religious indoctrination. We've got so many people walking around saying things like "evolution is a theory," parroting back the same (incorrect) talking points they've gotten from their (usually religious) social groups, and this is simply unacceptable for any country that wishes to be relevant in the modern age. There is no possible way to be a competitive force in terms of innovation and scientific progress if your population is still laboring under delusions like "evolution is a theory." It's like trying to engage in the Space Race while half your population believes that the Sun orbits the Earth.

[Ovisterra]

Like my primary school: They teach you about as many religions as they can in the 8 years you're there. That way, you make up your own mind. No one faith is promoted.

[Deus in Machina]

Sadly, evolution ISN'T voluntary, any more than gravity is voluntary, or the Krebs Cycle is voluntary. Natural laws don't care about your feelings or opinions.

Evolution is a theory, as everything in science is a theory made to be challenged. if people didnt challenge theories science wouldnt advance. do you think tht how we view atoms was the first way we thought atoms were built? Dalton's theory has been scrapped, but during his time everyone thought it was a natural law and unarguably true. so how we think the world around us works can change. If you could prove evolution, and i mean truly prove, rather than saying it must be true, i would lose my faith in God. but good luck trying to do that.

No luck needed. It has been experimentally and observationally proven many times that evolution occurs. You're doing it right now. Your genome is incorporating innumerable parasite organisms into its structure. Perhaps one of them will turn out to improve you in some way. Perhaps you'll pass it on. If so, the species will gradually change. There is no reasonable way to deny these facts. They have been proven far beyond doubt.

[Casenia]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

[Deus in Machina]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

Nobody is trying to disprove the existence of God. Why bother? It has been rpoven that evolution occurs. That is true regardless of whether or not God exists.
EDIT: Do you not have a shift key? The lower case thing is really distracting.

[Bottle]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

Yet another glowing example of why theology doesn't belong in schools; I think teaching correct punctuation, not to mention basic logical reasoning, should take priority. School is about preparing students to function as independent adults, after all.

[Wiztopia]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

So far I have not seen any solid proof that proves God exists, only more claims that it has to be true. If you are truly right, you should be able to prove God exists.

[Flameswroth]

i'm not necessarily worried just about them fucking up the science, but rather with them building time for indoctrination into the school day at all. basically, there is no positive contribution to be made to education at all by religious indoctrination. so any time devoted to it could be better spent with more time on the playground, for example.

Well that seems far less like 'polluting education', and more like a disagreement on the value of the time spent. Clearly you feel that the time could be better spent. A person who fears for the eternal well-being of their child (however misguided) would disagree with you. With the absolute integrity of the education held to a definitive standard, how they choose to spend/waste the remaining time is the sole concern of the people directly involved.

Could some children be better served with more time to physically exert themselves instead of learning about religious topics? Perhaps, but the choice of whether the religious instruction should be substituted instead really isn't in our ballpark unless it's our kids. I cannot say for certain, but I'd imagine that the standard curriculum for a private school to have in order to be recognized by the state would have to have some minimum physical education standard as well (if not, feel free to correct me). Having their choice to put a kid in that environment at a private school will not hinder 'education' by default.

[Bottle]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

So far I have not seen any solid proof that proves God exists, only more claims that it has to be true. If you are truly right, you should be able to prove God exists.

Ugh, no! This hijack is exactly the problem, and exactly why these kinds of subjects should NOT be in schools. There is absolutely no pragmatic value in such debates. It's fine to goof off and debate God on internet forums or in your dorm lounge, but class time should be for something productive and useful. Class time should be about imparting useful facts and applicable skills, not having rambling debates about somebody's personal beliefs about the existence of ghosts and spirits.

[Deus in Machina]

So far I have not seen any solid proof that proves God exists, only more claims that it has to be true. If you are truly right, you should be able to prove God exists.

Ugh, no! This hijack is exactly the problem, and exactly why these kinds of subjects should NOT be in schools. There is absolutely no pragmatic value in such debates. It's fine to goof off and debate God on internet forums or in your dorm lounge, but class time should be for something productive and useful. Class time should be about imparting useful facts and applicable skills, not having rambling debates about somebody's personal beliefs about the existence of ghosts and spirits.

*raises hand nervously* But Ms. Bottle, we're not in a class...

[Izzyshipper]

Yes.

School should be about enriching your own personal knowledge, and therefore a multitude of different faiths should be taught, as well as atheism. I myself found the groundwork of a religous education interesting as well as assiting me in rejection of religeon.

Creationism, however, has no scientific basis and therefore should not be taught in Science Classes.

[Wiztopia]

So far I have not seen any solid proof that proves God exists, only more claims that it has to be true. If you are truly right, you should be able to prove God exists.

Ugh, no! This hijack is exactly the problem, and exactly why these kinds of subjects should NOT be in schools. There is absolutely no pragmatic value in such debates. It's fine to goof off and debate God on internet forums or in your dorm lounge, but class time should be for something productive and useful. Class time should be about imparting useful facts and applicable skills, not having rambling debates about somebody's personal beliefs about the existence of ghosts and spirits.

Not really a hijack. I just twisted his words around to show how stupid what he said is.

[Gudbai]

Evolution is a theory, as everything in science is a theory made to be challenged. if people didnt challenge theories science wouldnt advance. do you think tht how we view atoms was the first way we thought atoms were built? Dalton's theory has been scrapped, but during his time everyone thought it was a natural law and unarguably true. so how we think the world around us works can change. If you could prove evolution, and i mean truly prove, rather than saying it must be true, i would lose my faith in God. but good luck trying to do that.

Aaaaaaaand this is why we can't afford to waste time on religious indoctrination. We've got so many people walking around saying things like "evolution is a theory," parroting back the same (incorrect) talking points they've gotten from their (usually religious) social groups, and this is simply unacceptable for any country that wishes to be relevant in the modern age. There is no possible way to be a competitive force in terms of innovation and scientific progress if your population is still laboring under delusions like "evolution is a theory." It's like trying to engage in the Space Race while half your population believes that the Sun orbits the Earth.

To be technical, you can't really "prove" a theory. All you can do is reinforce it over time and testing. The theory of evolution is still a "theory" (though it may be considered a law or rule by this point, technically). However, regardless of that, at this point it's had sufficient time and testing that it's an operable foundation on which education should be built. Even if you don't personally believe it, it needs to be taught, it needs to be learned and understood if only for reference in further education.

Being dismissive of religious beliefs is about as self-destructive as being dismissive of scientific findings. Teach what is necessary to everyone, teach what you believe amongst those who share your faith, but disregard neither common knowledge nor personal beliefs or quite simply we're all being ignorant and foolhardy.

[Nahpolay]

so far i have not seen any solid proof that disproves God, only more claims that it cant be right. if you are truly right youshould be able to disprove God.

Yet another glowing example of why theology doesn't belong in schools; I think teaching correct punctuation, not to mention basic logical reasoning, should take priority. School is about preparing students to function as independent adults, after all.

If you wAnt kids to be individual adults, wouldn't you expose them to all the avenues of belief so that they can decide for themselves, instead of shoving only evolution in their brains?

[Bottle]

Ugh, no! This hijack is exactly the problem, and exactly why these kinds of subjects should NOT be in schools. There is absolutely no pragmatic value in such debates. It's fine to goof off and debate God on internet forums or in your dorm lounge, but class time should be for something productive and useful. Class time should be about imparting useful facts and applicable skills, not having rambling debates about somebody's personal beliefs about the existence of ghosts and spirits.

*raises hand nervously* But Ms. Bottle, we're not in a class...

Exactly...we're on a forum, so people who want to debate God can make a thread about it (or join one of the dozens that are already on the forum).

The attempt to hijack this thread is showing exactly why we shouldn't allow such topics in schools. There's always going to be a religious person who feels compelled to disrupt productive discussions about factual subjects (in this case, the issue of curriculum) onto their personal superstitious talking points and onto endless empty "debates" about whether their God exists or not. And there will always be atheists and non-believers and people of minority religions who rise to the bait and get sucked into these useless spirals of "Yeah-huh there is a Gawd!" "Nuh-uh, is not!!" Fine for internet silliness, but irrelevant and unacceptable for school hours.