Good police work or invasion of privacy... Or?

[The Murtunian Tribes]

If anything the problem here wasn't with police but with the courts.

[Great Nepal]

What do you think?
Is this just sound police work and not problematic in the slightest, or is it taking it too far?

Good police work. It harmed no one but the criminal only. Unless you consider taking a sample of your hair as a "harm".

Would you voluntarily have submittet to a DNA test if you were one of the people requested to do so?

Yes, if you have done nothing wrong - why scared to give insignificant strand of hair. In fact, why not legally demand everyone's DNA to be stored in a database?

[Samuraikoku]

That is true. And even if you do let them in, they can't do anything with the results of that raid since it was illegal, even though consented.

Uh...what? If you consent to a search, no warrant is necessary and the police can use whatever evidence they find.

It still goes against the law. I don't believe any court would go by that logic.

[Laerod]

Yes, if you have done nothing wrong - why scared to give insignificant strand of hair. In fact, why not legally demand everyone's DNA to be stored in a database?

Because your wife can bribe a person with access to get a paternity test done. Among many other reasons.

[Kobeanare]

Uh...what? If you consent to a search, no warrant is necessary and the police can use whatever evidence they find.

It still goes against the law. I don't believe any court would go by that logic.

It doesn't. I wasn't offering an opinion, I was stating fact. A consensual search is always legal, regardless of whether there's a warrant or not. That is the law.

[Gravlen]

- One may not be guilty of the crime being investigated, but guilty of something else: - Irrelevant to the case at hand, you wouldn't be put on trial for that.

What guarantees would you have?

I don't see how providing DNA material to the police in an investigation that you're caught in (it's a completely different story if you were called out of nowhere) [...]

Why doesn't it count as being "called out of nowhere" when you're asked for a DNA sample simply for living in the town where the crime happened, and you also have a verifiable alibi for the time in question?

[Gravlen]

Uh...what? If you consent to a search, no warrant is necessary and the police can use whatever evidence they find.

It still goes against the law. I don't believe any court would go by that logic.

Not true where I live. The courts would cheerfully accept any evidence gathered that way.

[Great Nepal]

Yes, if you have done nothing wrong - why scared to give insignificant strand of hair. In fact, why not legally demand everyone's DNA to be stored in a database?

Because your wife can bribe a person with access to get a paternity test done.

And?
Answer: Dont cheat on your wife.

Among many other reasons.

Like?

[Conserative Morality]

Uncertain. Completely and entirely uncertain.

[Samuraikoku]

It doesn't. I wasn't offering an opinion, I was stating fact. A consensual search is always legal, regardless of whether there's a warrant or not. That is the law.

Not here. Searches must ALWAYS be performed with a warrant, independently of consent. Besides, police wouldn't knock on people's doors saying "hi, would you let us do a search?". They'd rather get a warrant.

- One may not be guilty of the crime being investigated, but guilty of something else: - Irrelevant to the case at hand, you wouldn't be put on trial for that.

What guarantees would you have?

The law of course.

Why doesn't it count as being "called out of nowhere" when you're asked for a DNA sample simply for living in the town where the crime happened, and you also have a verifiable alibi for the time in question?

In that case it is completely irrelevant and out of nowhere. I know that is the example of the two cases mentioned.

[Laerod]

Because your wife can bribe a person with access to get a paternity test done.

And?
Answer: Dont cheat on your wife. :p

Actually, no. The answer is to not have such a database in the first place.

Among many other reasons.

Like?

It assumes that every citizen is going to be guilty of some crime at some point which contradicts the basics of Western law. It's also open to all sorts of abuse and would be a valuable resource should guarantees of protection be done away with. In fact, one can consider a central database of all DNA profiles the doing away of one key guarantee of freedom from surveillance.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Eh, I think if the phone company just hands over records the phone company are the ones who are violating peoples' right to privacy, not the police.

[JuNii]

Because your wife can bribe a person with access to get a paternity test done.

And?
Answer: Dont cheat on your wife.

Among many other reasons.

Like?

I remember reading a story about a company showing the police department their new DNA machine. as a test, they asked for a DNA Sample from one of the rookies. he willingly gave a sample and it was put through the machine to show how fast matches could be made.

of course, no one expected the match that came up... to a years old murder case... the rookie was arrested and put on trial.

[Sibirsky]

Eh, I think if the phone company just hands over records the phone company are the ones who are violating peoples' right to privacy, not the police.

If a cop asked you to do something, would you?

[JuNii]

Eh, I think if the phone company just hands over records the phone company are the ones who are violating peoples' right to privacy, not the police.

If a cop asked you to do something, would you?

Depends on what was asked.

[Sibirsky]

If a cop asked you to do something, would you?

Depends on what was asked.

Let me search you car.

[Samuraikoku]

Depends on what was asked.

Let me search you car.

Knock yourself out, all you'll find is a learner's permit.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Eh, I think if the phone company just hands over records the phone company are the ones who are violating peoples' right to privacy, not the police.

If a cop asked you to do something, would you?

Not if I wasn't legally required to. I'm not legally required to submit to search and seizure, for example. The phone company, to my knowledge, isn't legally required to give the police the phone records of everyone they think was near the scene of a crime on a particular day.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Good police work.

[Greed and Death]

The DNA was volunteered. The police used it as an exclusionary tool. They then had an idea who to focus on, by focusing on those who declined to give DNA they got more evidence (fingerprints). Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I myself would always decline, but that is just me.

[Sibirsky]

Let me search you car.

Knock yourself out, all you'll find is a learner's permit.

You're ticketed for driving without a license. Your car is impounded. Congratulations.

If a cop asked you to do something, would you?

Not if I wasn't legally required to. I'm not legally required to submit to search and seizure, for example. The phone company, to my knowledge, isn't legally required to give the police the phone records of everyone they think was near the scene of a crime on a particular day.

Sir, is there a reason you are refusing to let me search your car? I can get another officer on the scene with a warrant to search your car within 2 hours. Why don't you make it easier for both of us, and let me look?

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Knock yourself out, all you'll find is a learner's permit.

You're ticketed for driving without a license. Your car is impounded. Congratulations.

Not if I wasn't legally required to. I'm not legally required to submit to search and seizure, for example. The phone company, to my knowledge, isn't legally required to give the police the phone records of everyone they think was near the scene of a crime on a particular day.

Sir, is there a reason you are refusing to let me search your car? I can get another officer on the scene with a warrant to search your car within 2 hours. Why don't you make it easier for both of us, and let me look?

What's your probable cause? If you can get a warrant, get it. I'll be waiting.

[Sibirsky]

You're ticketed for driving without a license. Your car is impounded. Congratulations.

Sir, is there a reason you are refusing to let me search your car? I can get another officer on the scene with a warrant to search your car within 2 hours. Why don't you make it easier for both of us, and let me look?

What's your probable cause? If you can get a warrant, get it. I'll be waiting.

Sir you were swerving. I believe you are under the influence of drugs and have more drugs or paraphernalia in the vehicle. So are you going to let me search, or are we going to be waiting for the other officer?

[Laerod]

What's your probable cause? If you can get a warrant, get it. I'll be waiting.

Sir you were swerving. I believe you are under the influence of drugs and have more drugs or paraphernalia in the vehicle. So are you going to let me search, or are we going to be waiting for the other officer?

We'll be waiting, and while we do, if you would be so kind as to give me your name and badge number.

[Samuraikoku]

You're ticketed for driving without a license. Your car is impounded. Congratulations.

Why? It's completely legal. And even though I consented (had nothing to hide anyway), your search was illegal due to no warrant. Your whole proceedings are null and void.

BAZINGA!