Offensive Flags Debate

[Neo Arcad]

A note before I begin: if this belongs in Moderation, then I apologize for the mistake.

I can't understand why the hammer and sickle aren't banned. I know that in the site rules it says that they aren't associated with mass genocide, but I disagree. I not only associate it with genocide, I feel very offended by the constant use of this symbol in flags. I am a German-American, and I have relatives who were imprisoned and killed in the Soviet prison camps during and after the second world war. They were not Nazis, and they were not in any way involved in or aware of the Holocaust, which I believe is also wrong. Therefore, I would like to open a discussion on whether malicious uses of the hammer and sickle should be banned.

While we are on this topic, however, I would also like to bring up the idea that no symbol is without its good and bad connotations, and regardless of what they have connected with them, if they are not used with malicious intent, they should not be banned. When I say malicious intent, I mean creating a carbon copy of Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR, and using the flag with it in a way that is hateful towards the victims of those regimes.

So, NSG, what are your opinions on either of those topics? Am I completely right? Am I overstepping my bounds here by asking these questions? Am I a raving loon? Discus.

The simple answer is this. This is a private website owned by Max Barry, and he can make whatever rules he please. If you don't like it, then you're welcome to leave.

You seem to not understand the point of this thread. I don't care what laws Max Barry wants to impose on his site. What I'm asking is for peoples' opinions. I don't plan to change anything about NS; I just want to know where others stand.

[Lackadaisical2]

The hammer and sickle should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the swastika. The swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Communism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the ideology. If we're going by body count, the US has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

We have committed genocide??

A few tens of 'em, yeah. Nothing too bad in the grand scheme of things though.

[-The West Coast-]

A swastika is automatically associated with Hitler's death farms, oppressive racial superiority and WWII. The Hammer and Sickle is associated with the USSR.

Which one sounds like it should be banned from this site?

[Goldsaver]

The hammer and sickle should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the swastika. The swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Communism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the ideology. If we're going by body count, the US has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

We have committed genocide??

The whole thing with the Native Americans could be considered genocide, but it is a bit of a stretch.

[Neo Arcad]

We have committed genocide??

A few tens of 'em, yeah. Nothing too bad in the grand scheme of things though.

Compared to Luxembourg, we're monsters.

[Azarea]

We have committed genocide??

A few tens of 'em, yeah. Nothing too bad in the grand scheme of things though.

If you count the Indian killings of that era.....So yeah

[Neo Arcad]

A swastika is automatically associated with Hitler's death farms, oppressive racial superiority and WWII. The Hammer and Sickle is associated with the USSR.

Which one sounds like it should be banned from this site?

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms, oppressive ideological superiority, and the Cold War. The Swastika may be associated with bad things, but what I'm saying is it's not the only one.

[-The West Coast-]

A few tens of 'em, yeah. Nothing too bad in the grand scheme of things though.

If you count the Indian killings of that era.....So yeah

We never killed Indians. We killed Native Americans.

A swastika is automatically associated with Hitler's death farms, oppressive racial superiority and WWII. The Hammer and Sickle is associated with the USSR.

Which one sounds like it should be banned from this site?

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms, oppressive ideological superiority, and the Cold War. The Swastika may be associated with bad things, but what I'm saying is it's not the only one.

Stalin never had death farms. Hur hur.

[Meryuma]

I think the swastika ban is stupid because people make Nazi flags anyways. How is a Nazi flag with an iron cross better then one with a swastika?

[Potarius]

A swastika is automatically associated with Hitler's death farms, oppressive racial superiority and WWII. The Hammer and Sickle is associated with the USSR.

Which one sounds like it should be banned from this site?

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms

No, it isn't.

[Denecaep]

In general, if someone sees a hammer and sickle, they think: communism.

In general, if someone sees a swastika, they think: nazis, holocaust, genocide, evil...

It's not that the communists didn't do bad things. But that's not what comes to mind. There isn't the same connotations. There may be exceptions depending on the person. But we can't treat everyone.

[-The West Coast-]

I think the swastika ban is stupid because people make Nazi flags anyways. How is a Nazi flag with an iron cross better then one with a swastika?

Iron cross =/= Nazi.

[Paplein]

native americans, and I believe the Philippines kinda count.

[Goldsaver]

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms, oppressive ideological superiority, and the Cold War. The Swastika may be associated with bad things, but what I'm saying is it's not the only one.

Stalin never had death farms. Hur hur.

Yeah, he kind of did. What do you call Gulags?

[Imperium Neo Roma]

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms

No, it isn't.

Yeah, don't know where he got that idea. When I see a Hammer and Sickle, I think of Communism, when I see a Swastika, I think of Genocide.

Why? I have no clue, but I personally think The Swastika is much more offensive then The Hammer and Sickle.

[Norstal]

You seem to not understand the point of this thread. I don't care what laws Max Barry wants to impose on his site. What I'm asking is for peoples' opinions. I don't plan to change anything about NS; I just want to know where others stand.

The hammer and sickle are used to represent more than just the Soviet Union.

Fuck my train of thoughts.

[-The West Coast-]

Stalin never had death farms. Hur hur.

Yeah, he kind of did. What do you call Gulags?

A gulag was a prison. A death farm is like Auschwitz.

[Neo Arcad]

A hammer and sickle is automatically associated with Stalin's death farms

No, it isn't.

Perhaps not to you, but to someone who has been educated on the gulag system by survivors of it...

[Meryuma]

I think the swastika ban is stupid because people make Nazi flags anyways. How is a Nazi flag with an iron cross better then one with a swastika?

Iron cross =/= Nazi.

Yeah, but there are specifically, blatantly Nazi flags that use an iron cross in place of a swastika.

[Potarius]

Stalin never had death farms. Hur hur.

Yeah, he kind of did. What do you call Gulags?

Pretty much.

There's a good reason (well, more like several good reasons) why Khrushchev had the GULag system disbanded in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

[The Floridian Coast]

I'd venture to say that most flags mean genocide to someone. Native Americans might think that with the American flag, a shitload of people in Africa who suffered under colonialism might think that with the various flags of Europe. Maybe some people in China would still be bitter over the flag of Japan. Maybe some Palestinians would think that with the flag of Israel.

My opinion on the swastika is that it's fine to ban the Nazi swastika, but other types shouldn't be banned. The Nazi swastika is distinct because it is both reversed and tilted, which had a lot to do with the retarded occult beliefs of the Nazis.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pfAonmdJaMU/TFFVE9zdNoI/AAAAAAAAAYE/TLSM0qeiwyY/s1600/Swastika1-hbari

This on the other hand, I don't think people would generally associate with Nazis.

[Esoterias]

Many people see the hammer and sickle in different retrospects. I see it as a symbol for Marxist ideology. Everyone can be offended by anything, really. It's just whether the majority is offended by something for the same reason.

[Sdaeriji]

You seem to not understand the point of this thread. I don't care what laws Max Barry wants to impose on his site. What I'm asking is for peoples' opinions. I don't plan to change anything about NS; I just want to know where others stand.

No, we get it. Our opinions are, "Holy shit, stop fucking complaining about it."

[Greed and Death]

A new and exciting discussion.

The answer, of course, is that it's because Max Barry has decided that the hammer and sickle aren't banned. That's all the reason we're due.

Yep. Did anyone bring cards?

I brought a funny comic.
http://satwcomic.com/king-europe

[Kommandoria]

The hammer and sickle do not necessarly represent Stalin's USSR. Rather, this symbol has come to simply represent ideologies such as socialism, communism, marxism, etc. They do not stand for the mass genocide by the Soviets, just non-capitalist ideals. As for the Iron Cross (and Balkenkreuz), it is just the symbol for the Wehrmacht, who were nothing like the Schutzstaffel (S.S.) that committed the genocide. The Iron Cross and Balkenkreuz has existed since WWI (possibly before that).