Offensive Flags Debate

[Neo Arcad]

A note before I begin: if this belongs in Moderation, then I apologize for the mistake.

I can't understand why the hammer and sickle aren't banned. I know that in the site rules it says that they aren't associated with mass genocide, but I disagree. I not only associate it with genocide, I feel very offended by the constant use of this symbol in flags. I am a German-American, and I have relatives who were imprisoned and killed in the Soviet prison camps during and after the second world war. They were not Nazis, and they were not in any way involved in or aware of the Holocaust, which I believe is also wrong. Therefore, I would like to open a discussion on whether malicious uses of the hammer and sickle should be banned.

While we are on this topic, however, I would also like to bring up the idea that no symbol is without its good and bad connotations, and regardless of what they have connected with them, if they are not used with malicious intent, they should not be banned. When I say malicious intent, I mean creating a carbon copy of Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR, and using the flag with it in a way that is hateful towards the victims of those regimes.

So, NSG, what are your opinions on either of those topics? Am I completely right? Am I overstepping my bounds here by asking these questions? Am I a raving loon? Discus.

[Zeppy]

Your flag is offensive to me. Get rid of it.

huzzah.

[Sdaeriji]

A new and exciting discussion.

The answer, of course, is that it's because Max Barry has decided that the hammer and sickle aren't banned. That's all the reason we're due.

[Farnhamia]

A new and exciting discussion.

The answer, of course, is that it's because Max Barry has decided that the hammer and sickle aren't banned. That's all the reason we're due.

Yep. Did anyone bring cards?

[Dengu]

Ban offensensitivity!

[Lackadaisical2]

Nothing should be banned for being offensive, but what can you do?

[Farnhamia]

I had heard that banning swastikas was due to legal prohibitions in Germany and other European countries.

[Hellsgrind]

I had heard that banning swastikas was due to legal prohibitions in Germany and other European countries.

Pretty much this. Germany would likely consider shutting down the site in the .de if the Swastikas were ever uncensored here.

[Potarius]

The Soviet Union didn't round up and attempt to completely wipe out an entire ethnicity of people, nor were they bent on doing the same for anyone who was different than their "ideal".

Nice try, though.

[Neo Arcad]

A new and exciting discussion.

The answer, of course, is that it's because Max Barry has decided that the hammer and sickle aren't banned. That's all the reason we're due.

I'm not trying to change it. I just want to see what people think.

[Lackadaisical2]

I had heard that banning swastikas was due to legal prohibitions in Germany and other European countries.

Pretty much this. Germany would likely consider shutting down the site in the .de if the Swastikas were ever legalized.

Considering we're allowed to post them, make Nazi nations, etc. I'm not sure thats the case.

[Potarius]

I had heard that banning swastikas was due to legal prohibitions in Germany and other European countries.

Pretty much this. Germany would likely consider shutting down the site in the .de if the Swastikas were ever legalized.

Yeah, it's really the same for a lot of major online games/forums.

For instance, Aces High II has banned Swastika usage on all historical German aircraft skins, because the authorities in Germany would ban the game were they allowed/shown.

[Neo Arcad]

The Soviet Union didn't round up and attempt to completely wipe out an entire ethnicity of people, nor were they bent on doing the same for anyone who was different than their "ideal".

Nice try, though.

Volga Germans, Crimean Tatars, and a whole boatload of other peoplewould disagree.

[Hellsgrind]

Pretty much this. Germany would likely consider shutting down the site in the .de if the Swastikas were ever legalized.

Yeah, it's really the same for a lot of major online games/forums.

For instance, Aces High II has banned Swastika usage on all historical German aircraft skins, because the authorities in Germany would ban the game were they allowed/shown.

I know they did the same for a few other games, considered doing it for CoD : WaW, I think they allowed it on the grounds for historical accuracy, however. Donno if they ever pulled through it, because by the time I stepped back into playing FPSes it was all about Black Ops.

EDIT: There was a bit of a fuss over the terrorist scene in MW2 too, as I recall. The airport one.

[Potarius]

The Soviet Union didn't round up and attempt to completely wipe out an entire ethnicity of people, nor were they bent on doing the same for anyone who was different than their "ideal".

Nice try, though.

Volga Germans, Crimean Tatars, and a whole boatload of other peoplewould disagree.

Mass deportations and transfers is nowhere close to putting specific peoples in ghettos and then murdering them en masse for the sake of killing them.

[Wolny Kraj]

The hammer and sickle should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the swastika. The swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Communism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the ideology. If we're going by body count, the US has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

[Potarius]

It has been misinterpreted by one person

I'd go a lot higher than one...

[Johannilandan]

I had heard that banning swastikas was due to legal prohibitions in Germany and other European countries.

that's true nothing broadcasted or online in germany is supposed to have any swastikas

[Neo Arcad]

The hammer and sickle should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the swastika. The swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Communism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the ideology. If we're going by body count, the US has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

The Jainist Swastika should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the Nazi swastika. The Nazi swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Jainism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the symbol. If we're going by body count, the USSR has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

See how that works?

[Wolny Kraj]

It has been misinterpreted by one person

I'd go a lot higher than one...

agreed, but it all started with Stalin.

[Latin Hispania]

free speech and all that.

[Johannilandan]

It has been misinterpreted by one person

I'd go a lot higher than one...

that one messed up everyone else so Stalin and Lenin

[Wilgrove]

A note before I begin: if this belongs in Moderation, then I apologize for the mistake.

I can't understand why the hammer and sickle aren't banned. I know that in the site rules it says that they aren't associated with mass genocide, but I disagree. I not only associate it with genocide, I feel very offended by the constant use of this symbol in flags. I am a German-American, and I have relatives who were imprisoned and killed in the Soviet prison camps during and after the second world war. They were not Nazis, and they were not in any way involved in or aware of the Holocaust, which I believe is also wrong. Therefore, I would like to open a discussion on whether malicious uses of the hammer and sickle should be banned.

While we are on this topic, however, I would also like to bring up the idea that no symbol is without its good and bad connotations, and regardless of what they have connected with them, if they are not used with malicious intent, they should not be banned. When I say malicious intent, I mean creating a carbon copy of Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR, and using the flag with it in a way that is hateful towards the victims of those regimes.

So, NSG, what are your opinions on either of those topics? Am I completely right? Am I overstepping my bounds here by asking these questions? Am I a raving loon? Discus.

The simple answer is this. This is a private website owned by Max Barry, and he can make whatever rules he please. If you don't like it, then you're welcome to leave.

[Azarea]

The hammer and sickle should absolutely NOT be regarded as the same as the swastika. The swastika represents a political ideology that encourages mass killing. Communism is NOTHING about killing people. It has been misinterpreted by one person, which seems to have ruined the entire conception of the ideology. If we're going by body count, the US has committed its fair share of genocides and racism.

We have committed genocide??

[NERVUN]

*sighs* Look, the One-Stop Rules Shop > Acceptable Flag Policy lays it out. If you guys can point to something that says when people see the Soviet flag they mostly think of genocide Max might reconsider. Until then... No, it's allowed.