Bin Laden is dead Megathread

[Hydesland]

Again, he could be completely making this shit up. He cites no official outside source confirming his involvement with government.

Huh. The Telegraph thinks he was in the government.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1581425/US-envoy-admits-role-in-Aldo-Moro-killing.html

Torygraph regularly prone to printing total bullshit.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Huh. The Telegraph thinks he was in the government.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1581425/US-envoy-admits-role-in-Aldo-Moro-killing.html

Torygraph regularly prone to printing total bullshit.

Damnit.

[Nullivan]

I'm pretty convinced by now that Obama is actually dead, he had health problems, and covering it up with him alive would be too risky.

But the story just doesn't add up. Too many red flags, too many secrets, too many lies. The devil is, as always, in the details. Not the details of what angle he was shot from, but when he died and how.

If you have a nice clean true story, you don't need to hide anything, you just show the evidence and tell it as it is.

Orly?

[Vault 1]

The truth is rarely nice and never clean. Confusion about operational details is to be expected. A "nice clean...story" would send up red flags.

No, it wouldn't. The Hussein story was clean and transparent. The Milosevic story, apart from his murder by denial of medical aid, was clean and transparent. Even the JFK story, even if short on transparency, was clean and had all the details.

And I don't mean just confusion about operational details, there's just no evidence that the man killed was OBL.

[Controlistan]

Press Secretary: "We're not gonna release the photos of dead bin Laden because we're afraid it will make terrorists angry and then they'll attack us."
(A paraphrase, not a direct quote, but that's what he said.)

So, we're letting them change our way of life out of fear?
It looks like even after bin Laden is dead, he and the terrorists are still winning.

[Dingusdom]

I won't believe it until I see a body. And it could be a double, so I might be skeptical of it.

i believe it. there is nothing Osama would like more than to make America look like liars and idiots. He would have surfaced by now just to tell america to go fuck itself.

[Keronians]

Apparently, OBL has cost the US over $2.5 trillion.

This is estimated to be just the surface costs. It doesn't include indirect costs.

[Hydesland]

And I don't mean just confusion about operational details, there's just no evidence that the man killed was OBL.

Occam's razor. The idea that a huge number of officials in the white house, the military and in government, along with members of Al Qaeda, members of Bin Laden's family and many others are all in some grand conspiracy is extremely more implausible than the idea that the white house simply doesn't want to release the pictures to the public because

a) they're extremely graphic

and

b) "It is believed the President has concerns that producing the most identifiable picture of the terrorist chief could provoke a backlash.

He fears doing so may prompt a similar response to that seen after images of Saddam Hussein's dead sons were published in 2003."

No rational, critical thinking person would assume a conspiracy.

[Andaluciae]

Meh. Neither the Mossad, nor Mr. Tahrir are spokesmen for the US government.

Okay, what about this guy?

Lookie here!

Steve Pieczenik, just another crazy person. Seriously. He's into nutritional healing and stuff like that. He's the type of person who routinely appears on Coast to Coast.

Meanwhile, if it's from Alex Jones, I feel perfectly comfortable including it.

[Xenohumanity]

And I don't mean just confusion about operational details, there's just no evidence that the man killed was OBL.

Occam's razor. The idea that a huge number of officials in the white house, the military and in government, along with members of Al Qaeda, members of Bin Laden's family and many others are all in some grand conspiracy is extremely more implausible than the idea that the white house simply doesn't want to release the pictures to the public because

a) they're extremely graphic

and

b) "It is believed the President has concerns that producing the most identifiable picture of the terrorist chief could provoke a backlash.

He fears doing so may prompt a similar response to that seen after images of Saddam Hussein's dead sons were published in 2003."

No rational, critical thinking person would assume a conspiracy.

^This.
Hell, I watch Glenn Beck (who agrees that releasing the photos of Osama minus brains wouldn't help us or our security at this point), by the way, and yet ^this.

[Keronians]

And I don't mean just confusion about operational details, there's just no evidence that the man killed was OBL.

Occam's razor. The idea that a huge number of officials in the white house, the military and in government, along with members of Al Qaeda, members of Bin Laden's family and many others are all in some grand conspiracy is extremely more implausible than the idea that the white house simply doesn't want to release the pictures to the public because

a) they're extremely graphic

and

b) "It is believed the President has concerns that producing the most identifiable picture of the terrorist chief could provoke a backlash.

He fears doing so may prompt a similar response to that seen after images of Saddam Hussein's dead sons were published in 2003."

No rational, critical thinking person would assume a conspiracy.

Al Qaeda? I thought al Qaeda said that they can't confirm whether Bin Laden was dead or not?

[Andaluciae]

The truth is rarely nice and never clean. Confusion about operational details is to be expected. A "nice clean...story" would send up red flags.

No, it wouldn't. The Hussein story was clean and transparent. The Milosevic story, apart from his murder by denial of medical aid, was clean and transparent. Even the JFK story, even if short on transparency, was clean and had all the details.

And I don't mean just confusion about operational details, there's just no evidence that the man killed was OBL.

I've already discussed why it's more difficult to develop a complete operational narrative, and you went along with it, our so it seemed.

Hussein was in Iraq, was captured in a massive multi-formation operation, and US troops remained present for an extended period of time after the capture. Milosevich wasn't captured by US troops, and how on Earth can you find any opaque parts of the JFK assassination?

[Hydesland]

Al Qaeda? I thought al Qaeda said that they can't confirm whether Bin Laden was dead or not?

I read a news piece recently quoting a statement from an Al Qaedan leader in Yemen claiming that "his brothers" in Pakistan confirm the story to be true.

[Vault 1]

b) "It is believed the President has concerns that producing the most identifiable picture of the terrorist chief could provoke a backlash.

If you don't want to release images, what about having independent coroner verification? What about bringing the body in first? What about anyone but the very small team (rather than "a lot of people") who supposedly captured him seeing the body?

This thing just screams "fake" louder than a rock concert.

[Andaluciae]

Torygraph regularly prone to printing total bullshit.

Damnit.

A couple of google searches turns up articles where he thinks of himself as...Jack Ryan? Is someone playing some sort of bizarre LARP, pretending to be the most delusional person ever?


Also, take a look at his web page : (advice: Turn the volume down) http://www.stevepieczenik.com/

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Damnit.

A couple of google searches turns up articles where he thinks of himself as...Jack Ryan? Is someone playing some sort of bizarre LARP, pretending to be the most delusional person ever?


Also, take a look at his web page : (advice: Turn the volume down) http://www.stevepieczenik.com/

Yeah, already saw that

I still don't believe the US propaganda. They've shown no proof.

[Hydesland]

If you don't want to release images, what about having independent coroner verification? What about bringing the body in first? What about anyone but the very small team (rather than "a lot of people") who supposedly captured him seeing the body?

This thing just screams "fake" louder than a rock concert.

They only scream fake if you're predisposed to accepting ludicrous, conspiracist alternatives based on what are tenuous oddities at best. The team was at least 21 strong going into the compound, the body was transported to multiple locations before being transported to a aircraft carrier, there would have definitely been more than a 'very small team' that would have seen the body.

And what would independent coroner verification do when there has already been computerised facial recognition verification. Do you really think the fact that Obama can claim to have hired a separate agency to do additional 'verification' would have assuaged any conspiracist at all? Of course not, there would have been no point to that.

[Terra Agora]

If you don't want to release images, what about having independent coroner verification? What about bringing the body in first? What about anyone but the very small team (rather than "a lot of people") who supposedly captured him seeing the body?

This thing just screams "fake" louder than a rock concert.

They only scream fake if you're predisposed to accepting ludicrous, conspiracist alternatives based on what are tenuous oddities at best. The team was at least 21 strong going into the compound, the body was transported to multiple locations before being transported to a aircraft carrier, there would have definitely been more than a 'very small team' that would have seen the body.

And what would independent coroner verification do when there has already been computerised facial recognition verification. Do you really think the fact that Obama can claim to have hired a separate agency to do additional 'verification' would have assuaged any conspiracist at all? Of course not, there would have been no point to that.

To be honest I dont blame the speculation. They said he was dead in 2003 why does this time make it special? I'd bet money he was killed but then again I wouldn't really be surprised if he wasn't.

[Hydesland]

They said he was dead in 2003 why does this time make it special?

Can you show me the white house confirming he was dead in 2003?

[Terra Agora]

They said he was dead in 2003 why does this time make it special?

Can you show me the white house confirming he was dead in 2003?

I dont believe the white house did. Plenty of new's stations did.
9 times he was "confirmed" (by news sources, the Taliban, etc) dead. But I dont think the white house confirmed any of them. FBI officials (If I remember correctly it was Dale Watson) said he believed Osama was dead.

[Hydesland]

9 times he was "confirmed" (by news sources, the Taliban, etc) dead. But I dont think the white house confirmed any of them. FBI officials (If I remember correctly it was Dale Watson) said he believed Osama was dead.

Right, but then quite clearly this occasion is highly distinct to all the other occasions, that are either speculation or based on hearsay.

[Andaluciae]

b) "It is believed the President has concerns that producing the most identifiable picture of the terrorist chief could provoke a backlash.

If you don't want to release images, what about having independent coroner verification? What about bringing the body in first? What about anyone but the very small team (rather than "a lot of people") who supposedly captured him seeing the body?

This thing just screams "fake" louder than a rock concert.

The taking of DNA,the witnesses interviewed and the photo recognition are all pretty solid means of identifying the guy. He was dumped off the edge of the Vinson, a method of burial so specific it seems like someone thought this out.

As for autopsies, one likely would not have happened, igiven the attempts to stay within Islamic custom for burial.

I really don't see any purpose to.releasing the photos, at least not to assuage skeptics who would disbelieve those as well--just look at the birther nutters, and their response to the birth certificate. Obama learned his lesion on that one for sure.

[Andaluciae]

Come on people! We've almost caught the Libya thread in a tiny fraction of the time that thread required! Hooray!

[Terra Agora]

9 times he was "confirmed" (by news sources, the Taliban, etc) dead. But I dont think the white house confirmed any of them. FBI officials (If I remember correctly it was Dale Watson) said he believed Osama was dead.

Right, but then quite clearly this occasion is highly distinct to all the other occasions, that are either speculation or based on hearsay.

Tbh the white house confirming it doesn't really move me.

[Andaluciae]

Right, but then quite clearly this occasion is highly distinct to all the other occasions, that are either speculation or based on hearsay.

Tbh the white house confirming it doesn't really move me.

Any particular reason?