Bin Laden is dead Megathread

[Noavak]

-snip-

Bullshit.

Do you understand that DNA tests has confirmed that OBL is dead? Yes or no?

Do you understand that USA wanted to avoid OBL's grave being enshrined by his supporters? Yes or no?

Do you understand that his family, allies, and even Al Qaeda have all confirmed that OBL is, in fact, dead? Yes or no?

Its generally demeaning to oneself to make blatant, false claims to an established truth, mmmkay? Mmmkay.

[Vault 1]

Do you understand that DNA tests has confirmed that OBL is dead? Yes or no?

DNA tests don't test for death. They test for DNA matches or similarities. Obtaining a piece of DNA isn't the same as killing someone.

Do you understand that USA wanted to avoid OBL's grave being enshrined by his supporters? Yes or no?

Bullshit. A shrine to OBL, controlled by US, would be a good thing for the US. It's like a superhighway to Guantanamo Bay.

claims to an established truth

Truth is established when proof is presented. No proof has been presented. Zero.

[Noavak]

DNA tests don't test for death. They test for DNA matches or similarities. Obtaining a piece of DNA isn't the same as killing someone.

DNA taken from a dead body however, do, in fact prove that said individual is the aforementioned dead individual (admittedly, I worded that a bit screwy).

Bullshit. A shrine to OBL, controlled by US, would be a good thing for the US. It's like a superhighway to Guantanamo Bay.

Bullshit. No shrine at all is the best thing for the US. We need not live in constant hatred of the man and his memory is better forgotten to the annuals of history instead of being remembered constantly.

Truth is established when proof is presented. No proof has been presented. Zero.

Al Quaeda has vowed vengenece for the death of OBL. Key phrase: AL QUAEDA has vowed VENGENANCE FOR THE DEATH OF OBL!!!

An admission that OBL is dead by the very organization he led - holy shit. The mother fucker is dead and in hell.

[Vault 1]

DNA taken from a dead body however, do, in fact prove that said individual is the aforementioned dead individual (admittedly, I worded that a bit screwy).

What proof has been presented that any DNA that has been taken, if any has been taken, was taken from a dead body? The source claiming this is the same source making all other claims.

Al Quaeda has vowed vengenece for the death of OBL. Key phrase: AL QUAEDA has vowed VENGENANCE FOR THE DEATH OF OBL!!!

So what? Anything that rallies people for a cause is good for the purpose. Of course their recruitment campaigns will use this to rally people. Then they might switch to "Osama is not dead", or might not.

[Florin and Atlantis]

So what? Anything that rallies people for a cause is good for the purpose. Of course their recruitment campaigns will use this to rally people. Then they might switch to "Osama is not dead", or might not.

You really should check up on Al Qaeda's twitter

[The Alma Mater]

So.. various people have tried to report this as a crime, stating that "the soldiers killed an unarmed man in his home, ditched his body into the ocean, and proudly confessed this on tv".

Where does their reasoning fail ?

[Vault 1]

You really should check up on Al Qaeda's twitter

Sorry, it's not my kind of read, even if it has nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

[Florin and Atlantis]

So.. various people have tried to report this as a crime, stating that "the soldiers killed an unarmed man in his home, ditched his body into the ocean, and proudly confessed this on tv".

Where does their reasoning fail ?

It fails because they are questioning the good old USA, that's why! USA! USA! USA! WOOO! We all know that everything the USA ever does is legal, that the US government is above the law, that if this had happened on US soil by another country to one of our leaders/celebrities/defectors from other countries it would be a terrorist attack and a declaration of war, and that this country was founded on being awesome or something like that. So, what happened on the Celebrity Apprentice the other night besides Obama rudely interrupting it?

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

So.. various people have tried to report this as a crime, stating that "the soldiers killed an unarmed man in his home, ditched his body into the ocean, and proudly confessed this on tv".

Where does their reasoning fail ?

a) He (apparently) resisted capture, and
b) He's a man known to have had a hand in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians.

[The Alma Mater]

So.. various people have tried to report this as a crime, stating that "the soldiers killed an unarmed man in his home, ditched his body into the ocean, and proudly confessed this on tv".

Where does their reasoning fail ?

a) He (apparently) resisted capture, and
b) He's a man known to have had a hand in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians.

a. is not an argument. It was not the police with a warrant; it was men with guns breaking into his home. Men with explicit orders to kill him.
b. can we kill all massmurderers without a trial ? Can we ? Please ?

[Cameroi]

was it JUST pakistan who might have known all along where he was? or was it not the u.s. as well?

this is pure speculation of course, but isn't it possible bush knew where bin laden was from the beginning, and passed that along to obama when he took office too?
isn't it not only possible but probable, that al quida was created as political fodder from jump, as an excuse for the erosion of political and civil rights in america, and their prevention elsewhere, as a convenience to mindless, conscienceless, economic interests?

i honestly do not believe the events of 9-11 2001 were planned outside of the circle of pseudo-conservative politico-economic interests within the u.s., however much this so called al quida, may have been the tool and the instrument that carried them out.

[New Hayesalia]

was it JUST pakistan who might have known all along where he was? or was it not the u.s. as well?

this is pure speculation of course, but isn't it possible bush knew where bin laden was from the beginning, and passed that along to obama when he took office too?
isn't it not only possible but probable, that al quida was created as political fodder from jump, as an excuse for the erosion of political and civil rights in america, and their prevention elsewhere, as a convenience to mindless, conscienceless, economic interests?

i honestly do not believe the events of 9-11 2001 were planned outside of the circle of pseudo-conservative politico-economic interests within the u.s., however much this so called al quida, may have been the tool and the instrument that carried them out.

And the ultimate motive being...?

[Holy Marsh]

was it JUST pakistan who might have known all along where he was? or was it not the u.s. as well?

this is pure speculation of course, but isn't it possible bush knew where bin laden was from the beginning, and passed that along to obama when he took office too?
isn't it not only possible but probable, that al quida was created as political fodder from jump, as an excuse for the erosion of political and civil rights in america, and their prevention elsewhere, as a convenience to mindless, conscienceless, economic interests?

i honestly do not believe the events of 9-11 2001 were planned outside of the circle of pseudo-conservative politico-economic interests within the u.s., however much this so called al quida, may have been the tool and the instrument that carried them out.

And the ultimate motive being...?

powermoneyevil.

Get with the lunatic program already.

[Cannot think of a name]

So.. various people have tried to report this as a crime, stating that "the soldiers killed an unarmed man in his home, ditched his body into the ocean, and proudly confessed this on tv".

Where does their reasoning fail ?

It's not exactly like he was just a local meth dealer or something. The only real thing that separates him from a traditional enemy is a recognized set of borders. Does he get a pass because he had an unconventional army? You can't shoot back if he doesn't put on a costume? He didn't rob the first national bank, he declared open war on the US and its allies. Now, granted if I did that at worst a man in a suit might show up and say, "No, you don't." But he actually successfully commanded an army that has attacked the US on its own soil as well as abroad. He was an enemy combatant and was dealt with as such. I've never heard of a restriction indicating you were not allowed to target leadership. He was an unconventional enemy, but that doesn't mean he automatically goes all the way down to 'common criminal.' I mean, it's a cute game to play, but really doesn't stand up.

[Gauthier]

Burial at sea was an obvious choice so as to not create a grave that could become a site of pilgrimage for his followers.

What's wrong with creating a site of pilgrimage for his followers? Just create it close enough to Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay that you can save on gas hauling everyone coming there.

The same reason "We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" was such a spectacular success. Good luck arresting and extraditing every single individual who so much as wanders near the hypothetical Bin Laden shrine. Gitmo has only so much space, and I doubt black sites are spacy. Hell of an unneccessary financial drain even assuming Al'Qaeda or some other group doesn't make it a permanent shrine or base. And it sure as hell wouldn't be in a country friendly to the U.S. so good luck with the constant bombing attempts!

[The Alma Mater]

Just a couple days ago, I actually thought that OBL might be dead. Not necessarily, but was willing to give it a good probability.

The "burial at sea" news have really caused me to laugh out loud. All doubt that this might not be a fake has vaporized. It's not like he is a sailor or something - there would be no serious reason for burial at sea.

Oh ffs, if that is your idea of all the evidence you need to conclude that all this is fake then you are a conspiracy nut. Burial at sea was an obvious choice so as to not create a grave that could become a site of pilgrimage for his followers.

And it is completely in line with Islamic rules for burying people who have many enemies that would be willing to defile the body.

Of course, they could have buried him on the Moon. Surely that would fit - the moon being a symbol of Islam and all.

[Vader sama]

well, easy come easy go...

[Andaluciae]

was it JUST pakistan who might have known all along where he was? or was it not the u.s. as well?

this is pure speculation of course, but isn't it possible bush knew where bin laden was from the beginning, and passed that along to obama when he took office too?
isn't it not only possible but probable, that al quida was created as political fodder from jump, as an excuse for the erosion of political and civil rights in america, and their prevention elsewhere, as a convenience to mindless, conscienceless, economic interests?

i honestly do not believe the events of 9-11 2001 were planned outside of the circle of pseudo-conservative politico-economic interests within the u.s., however much this so called al quida, may have been the tool and the instrument that carried them out.

No, and to contend that Al Qaida is something of a hyper-longevity false-flag operation is absurd. False flags tend to either be poorly constructed, turfgrass type of entities (think the swift boat folks) or one-off and structure free. Not only that, but creating Al Qaida would leave a trail: At least some evidence, other than what one cooks up in thought experiments, would exist. None of that describes Al Qaida, and the claim that they are can be categorically dismissed.

[Ifreann]

This totally warrants another thread.

[Maurepas]

Who cares, good luck, and the fact that they couldn't stop us.

[Mike the Progressive]

I imagine the circumstances are harder than we really understand. For example, was he reaching for a weapon? Was the woman he was with? Were the children? Did he try to push or grab something when he was told to stop?

We assume (also don't post big ass pics on posts) from some bare facts the reality of the case, when we really just don't know. In the heat of things, you're aren't being overly cautious, you are making sure you accomplish your mission, that your team and you live. I know it has become somewhat of a cliche in counter-terrorist shows, but they hold some truth in them. Accidents happen. But again, we really don't have enough details.

[Sea Captains Folly]

I love how he was hiding in a $1,000,000 mansion. Now do we honestly think America didn't see it? A 1m compound right outside the perimeter of what looks like a favela. I mean lets be honest no one is that stupid. Precisley when this had been going for like 10 years. So I connect the dots with 400 terriosts escaping and the death of Osama. He could of kept hiding I don't know what was stopping America from just going in and killing him before (Besides Pakistans permission) buy I'll let you be creative but I believe that they agreed to release those 400 prisoners in exchange for the life of Osama. Its only logical (from the news I have heard thus far) that they have not recaptured or even chased down one (runaway terriost).

[Andaluciae]

Oh ffs, if that is your idea of all the evidence you need to conclude that all this is fake then you are a conspiracy nut.

No, I'm not. Here in the internet, we have an expression: "pics or it didn't happen". There were no pics, and now the body has been mysteriously buried at sea. The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim - in this case, the claim that OBL has been killed. This burden has not been satisfied.

Burial at sea was an obvious choice so as to not create a grave that could become a site of pilgrimage for his followers.

What's wrong with creating a site of pilgrimage for his followers? Just create it close enough to Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay that you can save on gas hauling everyone coming there.

So...is Hitler dead? How about Genghis Khan? No bodies, no pictures. They must still be alive.

[Risottia]

Is it ethical to kill an unarmed man?

No. On the other hand, he was the leader of a criminal organization that declared "war" on both US and Pakistan (yeah, technically a criminally organization can't issue a formal declaration of war... but there you are). So, it's either "surrender or be shot on the spot" usually. Just as if you try to break and run through a police checkpost.

What if they killed the wrong guy?

It would have been a crime.

What if Bin Laden wasn’t that responsible for 911 but just a distant fan?

Evidence pointed to him, and he claimed responsibility. And not JUST for 9/11.

Who gave USA the authority to enter another country and just kill someone?

The fact that the Pakistani gov't exists because of US funding, I guess.

What if some Muslim president feels he can now order his intelligence service to execute some Bush jr?

I'd love to see them trying... both if they succeed or fail

I would have liked it, if he was brought in front of a court. That’s how it works in a civilized society. Now, we are not much better than Muslim terrorists like Bin Laden.

I would have loved to see him dragged in front of a court. On the other hand, I don't find the killing of Bin Laden much regrettable. For sure, not more than the carpet-bombings carried out by US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Andaluciae]

I love how he was hiding in a $1,000,000 mansion. Now do we honestly think America didn't see it? A 1m compound right outside the perimeter of what looks like a favela. I mean lets be honest no one is that stupid. Precisley when this had been going for like 10 years. So I connect the dots with 400 terriosts escaping and the death of Osama. He could of kept hiding I don't know what was stopping America from just going in and killing him before (Besides Pakistans permission) buy I'll let you be creative but I believe that they agreed to release those 400 prisoners in exchange for the life of Osama. Its only logical (from the news I have heard thus far) that they have not recaptured or even chased down one (runaway terriost).

As a former employee of the defense establishment: Are you fucking kidding me? I'm flatters you think so much of our skills, but your expectations are severely misplaced.