Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:52 amThe word cockroaches come to mind.
Siorafrica wrote:They're sanctimonious lunatics.
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:52 amPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:53 amPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:53 amPeisandros wrote:That's all well and good, but it doesn't mean I have to agree that the right to free speech deserves to be in the constitution.
Fair enough. If it was up to me, I would have those WBC sons of bitches thrown into a jail cell....but I know that I can't ask the government to do that, and still call myself a Libertarian.
The Alma Mater wrote:
1. "In my opinion, the world would be a better place if all homosexuals died"
2. "Acceptance of homosexuality is a threat to humanity on par with the destruction of the rainforest"
3. Homosexuals will burn in hell for all eternity
4. Homosexuals are an abomination. A good Christian would not allow Gods vision to be smeared with their continued existence.
Should all of these be forbidden ?
Only number 4 should be forbidden as it is calling upon people to commit crimes against anyone who is homosexual. One is an opinion, that does not call for action. 2 also does not call for action, and 3 is a religous statement.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:55 amGod damn!
Fred Phelps and his followers are psychopaths, plain and simple.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:00 amPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:02 amMy opinion?
"Judge not, that ye be not judged."
And they judge a lot. So, I tend to judge them a lot. And it is rarely a positive judgement.
"Judge not, that ye be not judged."
And they judge a lot. So, I tend to judge them a lot. And it is rarely a positive judgement.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:14 amAs a Christian and a social conservative, I think that homosexual acts are contrary to God's will for us. That being said, I find the WBC as hateful and terrible as any of my more liberal friends, and am perhaps even more unhappy with them because they commit atrocious acts in God's name. A relief to me is that the WBC is so absolutely crazy and their sermons and campaigns so clearly contradict God's Word that most people don't lump them in with "normal" conservative Christians but understand that these guys are off the deep end. To say that God "hates" anyone is contrary to the Bible. God hates sin, yes, but not the sinner. There is a song of theirs where they tell everyone that they are sinners and need to repent, and in the next breath say that "it's too late" and you're all going to hell. That is contrary to the Bible, which says that we all have sinned and need to repent, but that God will receive anyone who does so and receives the grace of Jesus Christ.
I do believe they have the right to free speech and demonstrations. Keep in mind that in other countries, where this sort of thing wouldn't be allowed, the law also prohibits much more benign forms of speech and demonstration. I don't want to live in a liberal police state. Take away the freedom to say "God hates fags" in public and then the next step is to prohibit saying that "gay sex is sinful" in churches, synagogues, and mosques. Eventually it'll be illegal to talk about religion in public, or hand out tracts, or whatever other stuff people find offensive next.
A solution to the WBC? I believe that there is a group of bikers, many of them veterans, who will show up at military funerals at the invitation of the families. Because they are guests, they are permitted by law to be closer to the funeral site than the protesters, and they can then block and drown out the WBC people legally. I think that is brilliant, and an example of what can be done to stop them without infringing on everyone's rights. Also, it would help if the media, and all of us, stopped "feeding the troll" and just ignored those clowns. Or, better yet, make fun of them. I heard they gave up on a few protests after people showed up en masse to ridicule them. (THey tried to protest twitter in SF, and that failed. They also tried to protest at a ComicCon and, well, you can imagine how that went. Lots of fun for everyone but the WBC)
I do believe they have the right to free speech and demonstrations. Keep in mind that in other countries, where this sort of thing wouldn't be allowed, the law also prohibits much more benign forms of speech and demonstration. I don't want to live in a liberal police state. Take away the freedom to say "God hates fags" in public and then the next step is to prohibit saying that "gay sex is sinful" in churches, synagogues, and mosques. Eventually it'll be illegal to talk about religion in public, or hand out tracts, or whatever other stuff people find offensive next.
A solution to the WBC? I believe that there is a group of bikers, many of them veterans, who will show up at military funerals at the invitation of the families. Because they are guests, they are permitted by law to be closer to the funeral site than the protesters, and they can then block and drown out the WBC people legally. I think that is brilliant, and an example of what can be done to stop them without infringing on everyone's rights. Also, it would help if the media, and all of us, stopped "feeding the troll" and just ignored those clowns. Or, better yet, make fun of them. I heard they gave up on a few protests after people showed up en masse to ridicule them. (THey tried to protest twitter in SF, and that failed. They also tried to protest at a ComicCon and, well, you can imagine how that went. Lots of fun for everyone but the WBC)
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 amA bunch of trolls is what they are.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:20 amCentropyge wrote:As a Christian and a social conservative, I think that homosexual acts are contrary to God's will for us.
And yet we are humans with free will. Disappointing our father by doing something with our lives he does not want us to is of course something one can feel bad about - but adjusting your life (or encouraging others to change their lifes) just because he wants you to be something else is even sadder.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:37 amArdathium wrote:You probably wouldn't be saying this if your son or daughters was in the military and died in action and the funeral was being interrupted by these hateful cultists
This argument is:
1.ad hominem.
2.intrinsically fallacious, because he's talking about rulings issued by judges. If mr.X's son's funeral were interrupted by the WBC, mr.X would be the plaintiff, not the judge. Judge must be super partes to ensure a fair trial.
That said, WBC is a clear-cut case of hatemongers and real life trolls, and every sensible person should refuse to have any dealing with them. A sort of legal ostrachism.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:38 amWBC - Wacked-out Biotch Club.
I haven't had any personal interactions with them (for which I'm thankful) but every time I hear them mentioned I get this nearly uncontrollable urge to picket their church with signs saying "God Hates Bigots".
I haven't had any personal interactions with them (for which I'm thankful) but every time I hear them mentioned I get this nearly uncontrollable urge to picket their church with signs saying "God Hates Bigots".
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:40 amLubyak wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
1. "In my opinion, the world would be a better place if all homosexuals died"
2. "Acceptance of homosexuality is a threat to humanity on par with the destruction of the rainforest"
3. Homosexuals will burn in hell for all eternity
4. Homosexuals are an abomination. A good Christian would not allow Gods vision to be smeared with their continued existence.
Should all of these be forbidden ?
Only number 4 should be forbidden as it is calling upon people to commit crimes against anyone who is homosexual. One is an opinion, that does not call for action. 2 also does not call for action, and 3 is a religous statement.
I'd also add #1, as it is an implicit incitement to cause or allow, either through action or lack of action (like, refusing to help a homosexual person whose life is threatened), the death of all people of a specific group. I'd consider it incitement to genocide.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:46 amUnhealthy2 wrote:I like them. They show fundamentalist Christianity for what it really is. Either admit you don't believe the whole bible, or join the WBC.
That's like saying "The Al-Quaida represent Islam and it's good that way, because anyone who isn't in it isn't really in it".
I've got news for you. Don't take something that was written two millennia ago about some dude that was born without a (human) father too literally. You don't believe the bible, you believe in it's teachings. Or not, depending on your faith/absence thereof.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:46 amI think they need to be lined up against a wall...
What happens after that can be left to the reader's imagination.
What happens after that can be left to the reader's imagination.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:48 amThey are absolutely disgusting
I still refuse to tarnish my free speech ideals just because I find what they say to be despicable.
I still refuse to tarnish my free speech ideals just because I find what they say to be despicable.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:56 amUnhealthy2 wrote:I like them. They show fundamentalist Christianity for what it really is. Either admit you don't believe the whole bible, or join the WBC.
Do they accept online registrations?
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:56 amArdathium wrote:So you would actually enjoy someone standing over your grave telling your family and loved ones that you are burning in hell just because the American Military allows Gays to serve. Honestly, it makes no sense. My reasoning for this is the idea of protecting the legacy of a citizen who gave his life for this country and that his legacy should not be scarred even in the slightest manner by a hate filled propagandist church and that the soldiers family has a right to attend their family members service with peace and privacy without the interference of these a**holes. But to each his own, I never meant to offend you or anyone else, I personally feel when it comes to morals and traditions within our nation's military service that the rights of the family of a fallen soldier far exceeds the rights of a psychotic hate filled cult who's only goal in life is to make everyone else miserable. If that is the case, the family should determine whether the protest should occur. If you want these idiots to protest at your funeral, tell your family to invite them when you die.
"Enjoy" maybe too harsh a word... But I would certainly feel secure that my service meant something in that people of my nation could still freely speak their mind and express their personal beliefs, even so-far as expression opposed to my own.
It's easy to talk about and defend the freedom of speech of people you agree with, a real patriot and real hero of American liberty defends the freedom of speech of people whose views he absolutely abhors.
I don't agree one little bit with WBC's message, but I will fight tooth and nail for them to be able to express it.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:03 amnot, as near as i can tell, the will of god, even as envisioned by most of christianity.
er, if its what i think it is, which i'm not certain, because i don't find corporate so called news as useful as it tries to pretend to be.
er, if its what i think it is, which i'm not certain, because i don't find corporate so called news as useful as it tries to pretend to be.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:05 amThe Pokemon Empire wrote:Unhealthy2 wrote:I like them. They show fundamentalist Christianity for what it really is. Either admit you don't believe the whole bible, or join the WBC.
That's like saying "The Al-Quaida represent Islam and it's good that way, because anyone who isn't in it isn't really in it".
I've got news for you. Don't take something that was written two millennia ago about some dude that was born without a (human) father too literally. You don't believe the bible, you believe in it's teachings. Or not, depending on your faith/absence thereof.
You mean the Bible does NOT teach the things the WBC preaches ?
Actually - you are right. The WBC are still far too nice compared to the hypothetical people that truly would follow the teachings in that book.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:08 amHave any of you ever visited their website? It is both depressing and hilarious at the same time.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:09 amThe Alma Mater wrote:The Pokemon Empire wrote:That's like saying "The Al-Quaida represent Islam and it's good that way, because anyone who isn't in it isn't really in it".
I've got news for you. Don't take something that was written two millennia ago about some dude that was born without a (human) father too literally. You don't believe the bible, you believe in it's teachings. Or not, depending on your faith/absence thereof.
You mean the Bible does NOT teach the things the WBC preaches ?
Actually - you are right. The WBC are still far too nice compared to the hypothetical people that truly would follow the teachings in that book.
Disclaimer before I say anything - I'm atheist.
On with it. Follow the ten commandments, and you can basically say that the WBC are not much more than heresy. "Love thy neighbor" (or something like that)? Not a bit. The bible offers a pretty decent guidance to how to lead a "good" (in the sense of moral) life, but as I said, don't take it too literally. Or literally at all, for that matter.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:20 amRisottia wrote:Ardathium wrote:You probably wouldn't be saying this if your son or daughters was in the military and died in action and the funeral was being interrupted by these hateful cultists
This argument is:
1.ad hominem.
2.intrinsically fallacious, because he's talking about rulings issued by judges. If mr.X's son's funeral were interrupted by the WBC, mr.X would be the plaintiff, not the judge. Judge must be super partes to ensure a fair trial.
That said, WBC is a clear-cut case of hatemongers and real life trolls, and every sensible person should refuse to have any dealing with them. A sort of legal ostrachism.
I amended my first post, but I wanted to repeat here that I was and am making at least two distinct points:
1. The OP is suggesting specific legal action against the WBC and I was saying as a matter of law that has no foundation.
2. I was and am making a purely ethical argument that happens to also coincide with First Amendment law. I quoted SCOTUS cases because, as I said, they are wise statements from learned and experienced men who have given the subject much thought and because they neatly summarize greater concepts. I was not and am not saying they are right because they are law. I was and am saying they are right because they are correct.
2. I was and am making a purely ethical argument that happens to also coincide with First Amendment law. I quoted SCOTUS cases because, as I said, they are wise statements from learned and experienced men who have given the subject much thought and because they neatly summarize greater concepts. I was not and am not saying they are right because they are law. I was and am saying they are right because they are correct.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:23 amI believe that they give Christians a bad name
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:25 amRetoa wrote:I believe that they give Christians a bad name
If I may be a bit offensive, several Christian sects have always done a pretty good job of that without the help of the WBC.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:40 am