Why Are People So Critical About Christian Beliefs

[Salandriagado]

The principle of religion is to accept a positive claim (the existence of a god) in the absence of positive evidence.

And that is what we call "faith".

And that is why religions don't get to claim to be logical when they aren't. That still isn't a reason to not rip everything that they say apart.

[Norstal]

As I said - the basis of Christianity openly advocates bigotry. I suggest reading the bible some time.

No, it doesn't. I suggest you try actually reading the Bible, and not what you find on pro-atheist websites.

What did you find on pro-atheist websites?

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

As I said - the basis of Christianity openly advocates bigotry. I suggest reading the bible some time.

No, it doesn't. I suggest you try actually reading the Bible, and not what you find on pro-atheist websites.

One could argue that Judaism provides some level of religious underpinning for racists to use, what with all the talk about the children of Israel and the chosen people of god.Christianity, despite a few inconsistencies here and there, tries to really hammer home the message that Jesus and God are now all-forgiving and tolerant of any who are willing to accept them.

[Conserative Morality]

What did you find on pro-atheist websites?

Quotes from the Bible that were not merely ignored in order to increase the acceptability of Christianity in the modern world.

But you can't actually examine the Bible, that's cheating!

[Samuraikoku]

And that is what we call "faith".

And that is why religions don't get to claim to be logical when they aren't. That still isn't a reason to not rip everything that they say apart.

No. Their own ministers already do a good job on that (Example: Sexual scandals of Catholic priests).

[Norstal]

What did you find on pro-atheist websites?

Quotes from the Bible that were not merely ignored in order to increase the acceptability of Christianity in the modern world.

But you can't actually examine the Bible, that's cheating!

You know what is cheating?

Noclip true.

What now physics?

[-St George]

What did you find on pro-atheist websites?

Quotes from the Bible that were not merely ignored in order to increase the acceptability of Christianity in the modern world.

But you can't actually examine the Bible, that's cheating!

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

[Conserative Morality]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

So what you're saying is that the Bible does not advocate bigotry at all.

Really?

[Freelanderness]

Ahem?

As I said - the basis of Christianity openly advocates bigotry. I suggest reading the bible some time.

Christianity /=/ Following the Bible word for word.
Also I suggest you read the Bible sometime. The basis of Christianity is love.

First you said


But then you said


Isn't that somewhat of a paradox?

Not in the slightest - you are free to believe whatever you like, but you are not in any way free to impose it on others or claim some kind of special exception from being ripped apart, analysed and otherwise abused. Every single scientific theory gets that, every idea receives it. You don't get an exception from this rule.

Religion is a personal belief. So long as someone isn't trying to tell you that it's the truth for everyone and you have to follow it, I don't see why you would tear it apart. As for the people trying to get Creationism, go after them already! Nobody likes pushy kinds of people like that. Just don't equate them with every other Christian.

The principle of religion is to believe in a God.

The principle of religion is to accept a positive claim (the existence of a god) in the absence of positive evidence.

And how is that slavery?

[Samuraikoku]

You know what is cheating?

Noclip true.

What now physics?

Isn't that "noclip on"?

Also, there's the "god" and the "give all" (Quake), or the "iddqd" or "idfka" (Doom).

[Norstal]

You know what is cheating?

Noclip true.

What now physics?

Isn't that "noclip on"?

Also, there's the "god" and the "give all" (Quake), or the "iddqd" or "idfka" (Doom).

It all depends on the engine.

[Norstal]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

So, what atheist website is this?

[-St George]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

So what you're saying is that the Bible does not advocate bigotry at all.

Really?

Not at all. In several places, especially in the Old Testament, the Bible advocates Bigotry. I am saying that the teachings of Christ, and the main message of the New Testament, summed up in Mathew 5:43-44: "You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you", are more important than "God's" set of rules for Jewish Priests (Leviticus) or the Pseudo-Histories of Genesis, Exodus, etc.

The Bible is not 100% right (and some would question whether it is even 1% right, but that's another matter entirely, one can find relevant verses to back up almost every viewpoint), and Christians and Non-Christians alike should question the Bible and the actions of those who claim to be the successors of St Peter etc.

[Freelanderness]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

So what you're saying is that the Bible does not advocate bigotry at all.

Really?

The New Testament actually specifically condemns bigotry

Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. (NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

Then Jesus told this story to some who had great self-confidence and scorned everyone else: "Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a dishonest tax collector. The proud Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else, especially like that tax collector over there! For I never cheat, I don't sin, I don't commit adultery, I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.' But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, 'O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.' I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For the proud will be humbled, but the humble will be honored." (NLT, Luke 18:9-14)

You have heard that the law of Moses says, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. (NLT, Matthew 5:43-48)

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (NIV, Romans 13:8-10)

And my personal favourite:
We love because he first loved us. Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also. (NRSV, 1 John 4:19-21)

[Salandriagado]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

No, it doesn't. I suggest you try actually reading the Bible, and not what you find on pro-atheist websites.

Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Peter 3:1, Jude 1:5, Hebrews 3:12 (and 11:6 for another interesting point), Titus 3:10-11, 2 Timothy 2:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:15, Galatians 1:8-9, 2 Corinthians 10:5, Romans 1:31-32, Luke 19:22-27, Exodus 22:18. Please explain exactly how those are misinterpreted.

[Galga tha]

Did you just passed a judgement that only God can make?

Congrats, you're a hypocritical Christian!

To quote the amazing book, The Kite Runner, there is but one sin: The sin of thievery. And he has just stolen the judgement that is gifted to God and God alone.

From everything you've said, books are lies. You can't quote a lie, that's just embracing a lie. Ans yes, you'll say God is a lie, but you can say whatever you want. I don't mind. It's your life, do what you want with it.

[Norstal]

To quote the amazing book, The Kite Runner, there is but one sin: The sin of thievery. And he has just stolen the judgement that is gifted to God and God alone.

From everything you've said, books are lies. You can't quote a lie, that's just embracing a lie. Ans yes, you'll say God is a lie, but you can say whatever you want. I don't mind. It's your life, do what you want with it.

You can't call something a lie because you said it is. Unless, since you're comparing a fictional book to another fictional book and assigning the attribute "lie" to fictional books, then the Bible is a lie. Which you did.

[Conserative Morality]

So what you're saying is that the Bible does not advocate bigotry at all.

Really?

The Bible actually specifically condemns bigotry

Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. (NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

Then Jesus told this story to some who had great self-confidence and scorned everyone else: "Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a dishonest tax collector. The proud Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else, especially like that tax collector over there! For I never cheat, I don't sin, I don't commit adultery, I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.' But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, 'O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.' I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For the proud will be humbled, but the humble will be honored." (NLT, Luke 18:9-14)

You have heard that the law of Moses says, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. (NLT, Matthew 5:43-48)

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (NIV, Romans 13:8-10)

And my personal favourite:
We love because he first loved us. Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also. (NRSV, 1 John 4:19-21)

3But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)

34the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
35If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. (1 Cor. 14:34-35)

22Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.
23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
24As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. (Eph. 5:22-24)

12I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
15Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. (1 Tim. 2:12-15)



22You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Lev. 18:22)

13If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them. (Lev. 20:13)

17"There shall be no cult prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a cult prostitute of the sons of Israel.
18You shall not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow; for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God. (Deut. 23:17-18)

And so on.

[Samuraikoku]

Hey Norstal... looks like this time we might have the need for a Samurai.

[Salandriagado]

Not at all. In several places, especially in the Old Testament, the Bible advocates Bigotry. I am saying that the teachings of Christ, and the main message of the New Testament, summed up in Mathew 5:43-44: "You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you", are more important than "God's" set of rules for Jewish Priests (Leviticus) or the Pseudo-Histories of Genesis, Exodus, etc.

The Bible is not 100% right (and some would question whether it is even 1% right, but that's another matter entirely, one can find relevant verses to back up almost every viewpoint), and Christians and Non-Christians alike should question the Bible and the actions of those who claim to be the successors of St Peter etc.

Well, firstly, you will notice that the majority of my quotes are from the new testament. Secondly, if you're accepting that the bible is unreliable, what exactly is your basis for believing in the existence of god or any of the other claims made in it?

Christianity /=/ Following the Bible word for word.
Also I suggest you read the Bible sometime. The basis of Christianity is love.

I have read it. All of it. Can you say the same? The basis is war - that is what you get if you worship a war god turned monotheist.

Religion is a personal belief. So long as someone isn't trying to tell you that it's the truth for everyone and you have to follow it, I don't see why you would tear it apart. As for the people trying to get Creationism, go after them already! Nobody likes pushy kinds of people like that. Just don't equate them with every other Christian.

Because every single individual viewpoint, experimental methodology, hypothesis and theory has to be picked apart in order to advance the human race and establish their validity. This is the basic principle of science.

And how is that slavery?

I never claimed it was, I merely refuted the mistake.

From everything you've said, books are lies. You can't quote a lie, that's just embracing a lie. Ans yes, you'll say God is a lie, but you can say whatever you want. I don't mind. It's your life, do what you want with it.

No, taking a book as absolute fact without looking it up yourself is either a lie or stupidity.

[Ceannairceach]

To quote the amazing book, The Kite Runner, there is but one sin: The sin of thievery. And he has just stolen the judgement that is gifted to God and God alone.

From everything you've said, books are lies. You can't quote a lie, that's just embracing a lie. Ans yes, you'll say God is a lie, but you can say whatever you want. I don't mind. It's your life, do what you want with it.

Being Jesus, God isn't a lie, I can tell you that. Or at least not a lie to me.

How can a book be a lie? They can contain lies, but not themselves be lies.

Unless its cake. Cake always lies.

[Sociobiology]

How is "lacking belief in a deity" as much of an assertion as theism?

It's the position that something is inherently false while admitting it is unfalsifiable and unverifiable. Personally, I'm still ready to accept a religion the moment it can prove to me it isn't just BS. The moment the Christian God comes down from the sky and says "Hey, believe in me!" is the moment I'll agree he exists.

so your an atheist because you beleive it is knowable but that there is not evidence for it currently.
just as there is no evidence for a copy of the grapes of wrath in orbit around Jupiter, so I am an A-(Grapes of wrath book in orbit around Jupiter)-ist.

[Bluth Corporation]

Or quotes from the Bible taken out of context, or quotes from Bible versions whereby certain phrases have been written. The latter, of course, isn't the fault of said websites, but when they try to use said quotes as representing Christianity as a whole, then they are lying.

No, it doesn't. I suggest you try actually reading the Bible, and not what you find on pro-atheist websites.

Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, Exodus 22:18

Not relevant. The Tanakh is not presented as law for Christians, but rather as a compilation of the myths, legends, and traditions of the Hebrews to provide cultural context for understanding the world in which Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, lived and taught. Saying "These people believed this" is not the same as saying "this is right." All Christians are concerned with is what Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, himself actually taught.

1 Peter 3:1, Jude 1:5, Hebrews 3:12 (and 11:6 for another interesting point), Titus 3:10-11, 2 Timothy 2:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:15, Galatians 1:8-9, 2 Corinthians 10:5, Romans 1:31-32,

Not relevant. The Epistles are not the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, but rather the corruption of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ by those who did not recognize the truth of the divinity of his teachings and so instead found it necessary to create the myth of the divinity of his person. All Christians are concerned with is what Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, himself actually taught.

Luke 19:22-27

It's...a...parable. It is in no way meant to be taken literally. To pretend that it is to fabricate a point is the height of dishonesty.

[Sociobiology]

First you said

No. We are saying that because a viewpoint exists, it should be torn apart, analysed down to its roots and thoroughly abused. If the opinion can't survive this, there was something wrong with it from the start.

But then you said

No, no, no, no, no. You are entirely free to believe in a religion.

Isn't that somewhat of a paradox?

:S Slaves are men too, and women. By that logic following any major ideas, like capitalism, democracy, any scientific discoveries also means you're a slave.

False equivalence. Whilst it is arguable that capitalism forces a form of slavery in some forms of capitalism (I said arguable, mind you, ancap people), the principle of democracy is to allow people to lead themselves (albeit usually indirectly) and the point of scientific discoveries is that you can check them.

The principle of religion is to believe in a God.

well no that is the principle of your religion, religion in general is about faith (belief without or counter to evidence)

I have no particular problem with Christianity specifically I oppose all religion as a harmful destructive superstition, that has no redeeming beneficial characteristics that cannot be had from other sources without the negative side effects that religion carries with it. Christianity just happens to be the leading religion here, and therefor the leading harmful superstition.

[Samuraikoku]

I might have found something that makes more sense than Christianity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7MMTwIlWlU