Why Are People So Critical About Christian Beliefs

[Scottish Workers]

I keep hearing about Christians who are always trying to convert others but I have rarely seen this. I'm guessing its just something that's common in the USA.
In my case however, I know as many Atheists as I do Christians and while I generally get along with people of any faith or lack of faith, I sometimes get Atheists trying to "convert" me, usually saying that my beliefs are stupid and making groundless generalisations.

its very simple. they get on the Radio, television commercials, etc etc. they then preach at us from the bible at our sports events, and everywhere you go, someone is trying to get you to stop drinking bcuz its a sin, even though Jesus turned water into wine. they make that much sense.

Where I am, there is very rarely that kind of stuff on TV etc. Like I said, its probably just another common feature of that fucked up country known as the USA. As for the people who tell you not to drink, you make a good point. Damn pharisees.

[Sanguinthium]

its very simple. they get on the Radio, television commercials, etc etc. they then preach at us from the bible at our sports events, and everywhere you go, someone is trying to get you to stop drinking bcuz its a sin, even though Jesus turned water into wine. they make that much sense.

Where I am, there is very rarely that kind of stuff on TV etc. Like I said, its probably just another common feature of that fucked up country known as the USA. As for the people who tell you not to drink, you make a good point. Damn pharisees.

Why, benjamin franklin once said "Beer is proof that god exists and loves me" not nessesarily true, but you get the point.

They do Television commercials, even during the superbowl (Like soccar world cup, exept only america participates, and it happens annually with commercials running at ~$1 million for 30 secs) last one, a big anti abortion group did like 3 commercials. even though the superbowl doesnt do causes (like peta, political parties, etc.)
They even have their own damn television network. but that doesnt really 'count' because you dont wanna watch dont tune into gospel network..

[Churchilland]

Because often they are preached at you with no choice by raving lunatics on the street or outside train stations or stadiums. If the lunatics didnt exist I think people would be much more tolerant

[Risottia]

Yeah, or I'm finding my source. I don't know, maybe that's leaving. Roman military code, crucifixion records, the cave is still there, the hill is still there (aka Galgatha)

Golgotha.

, oh, and it's in the Bible, which was written in Hebrew, you know, traditional language of basically the whole Mediterranean area.

No, the Bible is written mostly in ARAMAIC. And Ancient Greek is used in some parts of the NT.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_greek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luwian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language

and many many others. But Aramaic was NEVER used outside Middle East. Phoenician, Latin and Greek were the trade languages for most of the antiquity throughout the Mediterranean.



Here's another example of a Christian who's going to be criticised a lot. How can people be so ignorant - even worse, show how much proud of their ignorance they are - and still hope they'll be taken seriously?
Really, you should sue your teachers.

[AETEN II]

Meh, I always have just thought of God as an uber-complicated extra-dimensional being which is beyond understandting or thought, and since he likely heralds from something above the fourth dimension, he's just to fucking complicated to describe. Everytime we try to desccribe such a being we would likley fail. Would be like a creature from the second dimension trying to describe us.

I've sorta always imagined that god to us is like comparing a human to an ant.

And how much do humans care about ants?

We step on them without second thought.

Still though, I think we have some significance, I mean, ants don't go around blowing up shit with nuclear explosions or build laser beams.

[Sanguinthium]

Yeah, or I'm finding my source. I don't know, maybe that's leaving. Roman military code, crucifixion records, the cave is still there, the hill is still there (aka Galgatha), oh, and it's in the Bible, which was written in Hebrew, you know, traditional language of basically the whole Mediterranean area. By the way, what happened to open mindedness? Why does Christianity have to be questioned all the time? Why is agnosticism or atheism the way to exist? And it is 'exist' because you don't get an afterlife without God and Jesus. Actually, you do, it's just in the pool of sulfur and brimstone. In Hell. Along with everyone who isn't saved.

1.So you mean to tell me that because a hill is in jerusalem.. and a cave.. this somehow proves your position? REALLY?

2. Most of new testamant was written in greek.

3. because they came knocking on my door, telling me to not donate blood, or recieve blood, because that has somewhere along the line become a mortal sin. and another group told me booze was evil, even though jesus made water into wine.. and another group told me that to cure queers (i dont like them to begin with..) they have to pray to a thirtysomething seminaked man nailed to a cross being whipped by roman centaurions.

[Samuraikoku]

Now I understand why the Japanese killed them all in their time.

[Norstal]

Dyakovo is full of win.

That's a given.
*nods*

A cargo of cookies will be dropped at your location shortly.

Oreos?

Oreos, Chips Ahoy, you name it.

[Samuraikoku]

That's a given.
*nods*

Oreos?

Oreos, Chips Ahoy, you name it.

Ahh, Chips Ahoy! I haven't had those in years! (They stopped importing them in my real life land.) (*Longing*)

[Hadari]

Christians are insidious.

[Khyrta]

I'm not one to generalize or stereotype. So I don't really have a problem with Christians, so much as the dumb ones. I've read some of the Bible, and I personally don't agree with the majority of it. I think it seems racist, sexist, genocidal and egotistical. I got into an argument about that once with my cousin, who's Southern Baptist. She got all defensive and started calling me a "dumb-ass" and that I was going to "burn in hell", and that I didn't know "anything about the world", when in fact that I got that straight from the Bible. She also tried to tell me that God "changed the rules" later on, which really leads me to believe that the Bible is NOT the word of God, because being God, he would make rules that apply to ALL time periods, regardless.

But I have nothing against ANY religions in a wider perspective. I am not willing to hold one persons actions against the rest of the group. That's ignorant.

I could rant on for hours about this, but I'm currently too busy with organizing a crusade against Westboro Baptist Church. JK. There's many things I want to do to that "church", many things I'd love to say, but I will not sink to their level.

[Samuraikoku]

I'm not one to generalize or stereotype. So I don't really have a problem with Christians, so much as the dumb ones. I've read some of the Bible, and I personally don't agree with the majority of it. I think it seems racist, sexist, genocidal and egotistical. I got into an argument about that once with my cousin, who's Southern Baptist. She got all defensive and started calling me a "dumb-ass" and that I was going to "burn in hell", and that I didn't know "anything about the world", when in fact that I got that straight from the Bible. She also tried to tell me that God "changed the rules" later on, which really leads me to believe that the Bible is NOT the word of God, because being God, he would make rules that apply to ALL time periods, regardless.

But I have nothing against ANY religions in a wider perspective. I am not willing to hold one persons actions against the rest of the group. That's ignorant.

I could rant on for hours about this, but I'm currently too busy with organizing a crusade against Westboro Baptist Church. JK. There's many things I want to do to that "church", many things I'd love to say, but I will not sink to their level.

Samuraikoku will send you some of our finest retainers if you wish.

[Dyakovo]

That's a given.
*nods*

Oreos?

Oreos, Chips Ahoy, you name it.

*awaits shipment of Oreos*

[Bluth Corporation]

I'm not one to generalize or stereotype. So I don't really have a problem with Christians, so much as the dumb ones. I've read some of the Bible, and I personally don't agree with the majority of it. I think it seems racist, sexist, genocidal and egotistical.

Which parts? The Tanakh, which isn't there as a set of rules to follow but rather as a collection of the myths, traditions, and legends of the Hebrews up to the time of the birth of Jesus to provide cultural context for his life? Or the Epistles, which have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity at all seeing as they were written by people who corrupted Jesus's teachings because they rejected the truth of the divinity of those teachings and so instead chose to create and perpetuate the myth of the divinity of Jesus's person?

I got into an argument about that once with my cousin, who's Southern Baptist.

Southern Baptists aren't Christians; they're acolytes of the cult of Jesus and Jehovah. So what does this have to do with a thread about Christianity?

She also tried to tell me that God "changed the rules" later on,

She believes in a god; therefore, she's not a Christian.

which really leads me to believe that the Bible is NOT the word of God, because being God, he would make rules that apply to ALL time periods, regardless.

I don't believe in a god or that the Bible is his "word"; but yours is a poor argument because it seems reasonable to think that a god could change the rules whenever he wishes because, well, he's a god. Not because he made a mistake, but just because that's the way he wanted to do it.

But I have nothing against ANY religions in a wider perspective. I am not willing to hold one persons actions against the rest of the group. That's ignorant.

Christianity isn't a religion, so I'm not sure how this is relevant.

There's many things I want to do to that "church", many things I'd love to say, but I will not sink to their level.

What do churches have to do with Christianity?

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Are you trolling? Atheism isn't that intellectual of a position, it's almost as much of an assertion as theism is. Agnosticism is not making any assertions.

How is "lacking belief in a deity" as much of an assertion as theism?

It's the position that something is inherently false while admitting it is unfalsifiable and unverifiable. Personally, I'm still ready to accept a religion the moment it can prove to me it isn't just BS. The moment the Christian God comes down from the sky and says "Hey, believe in me!" is the moment I'll agree he exists.

[Risottia]

Christians are insidious.

And the Pope is Darth Sidious.

(for the rhymin'lulz.)

[Hadari]

Christians are insidious.

And the Pope is Darth Sidious.

(for the rhymin'lulz.)

Well damn!

[Freelanderness]

Stop preaching the message of hell, for it is not my message. Similarly, don't call a man out on a splinter in his eye, when you yourself have a log caught in yours.

We should all worship Ceannairceach as Jesus. Then we could end the pointless debate.

Religion is slavery. A man leads, a slave follows.

That is all.

:S Slaves are men too, and women. By that logic following any major ideas, like capitalism, democracy, any scientific discoveries also means you're a slave.

Think about it before you reply please <3

ChristiansAmerican people are insidious.

... Mad libs anyone?

[Salandriagado]

We as human beings do not have a complete understanding of our universe. We have so many facts, and so many theories, connecting those facts together. Theories are created and disproved. That is the nature of science.

With the current amount of facts we have, it is impossible to either PROVE or DISPROVE the existence of a God or Gods.One could argue that the scientific advances we have made could lead to the conclusion that God doesn't exist, however, they could also be used to argue that God does exist

There is no conclusive evidence for either side.

Entirely true. However, logic provides a tiebreaker in these situations: Occam's Razor.

My point with those examples, as you pointed out, is that there are bigots everywhere. Bigotry is independent of race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, and political views.

However, Christianity actively advocates bigotry, which is a different thing entirely.

How is it logical to STEREOTYPE everyone in a specific group? How is that okay? That is like saying that Germany let the Holocaust happen, therefore all Germans are GENOCIDAL and MURDERERS. That is simply NOT TRUE. It's like saying that all gay men are feminine, and all gay women are manly. It's simply NOT TRUE.

True, but irrelevant. I am not stereotyping the group, I am referring to the overall organisation of the group, which does advocate bigotry.

Point out how it DISPROVES God.
Burden of proof belongs to the affirmative side, I know.

Kind of lost your own argument there.

I'm NOT proving the existence of God. I can't do that, I don't have the knowledge to. The entirety of the human race does not have the knowledge to. What I am saying is that there is no way to prove it!
As for points to it, there are many things like coincidences in history as we know it with the bible, the exact conditions we require, etc etc. I'm am not extremely familiar with them as I am for the most part, an Agnostic.

Right, I'll go through this a bit at a time. For the first paragraph, that is entirely true, which is why we rely on Occam's Razor in this situation. For the "coincidences in history as we know it with the bible", I'd like a source on that please, I am aware of nothing in the bible that wasn't either a) referring to something in the past b) obvious or c) patently false. For the "exact conditions", that is outright false - the conditions we require are very nearly certain to exist due to the vast size of the universe, just by pure chance.

My point is to stop the intolerance. I don't care what religion you are, what gender, what race, what your IQ is, where you work, what you studied in university, where you live, what you look like, or anything else. You don't know whether they are wrong or right and you are free to make a decision about the topic, but that doesn't somehow entitle you to make judgments about someone from their belief or lack of in God(s).

I don't. I make judgements about the concept of belief itself and criticize it, as I would, and do, criticize absolutely everything else as far as I am able to do so.

How else would prove or disprove something except with science?

Ugh, it's depressing how often I have to explain this.

Science. Does. Not. Prove. Anything. Nothing has ever been proven by science. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Science draws the theory that explains the available evidence with the fewest assumptions. If you want proof, you want maths.

I do not understand what your point is,

Are you simply saying that because Christian people have an inferior viewpoint to yours, according to yourselves, that you should make fun of them?

No. We are saying that because a viewpoint exists, it should be torn apart, analysed down to its roots and thoroughly abused. If the opinion can't survive this, there was something wrong with it from the start.

What is your evidence?

For which of the assertions made in the quoted post, precisely? For Mount Arrat: "After two days of digging and dynamiting inside the "boat-shaped" formation the expedition members found only soil and rocks. Their official news release concluded that "there were no visible archaeological remains" and that this formation "was a freak of nature and not man-made"." - the findings of the investigation into the anomaly.

I didn't say you were mocking Christians with that comment.

Also wow, for people who have such high moral standards on issues like gay rights and racial rights... you sure have low standards on religious freedoms.

It's all freedom of the people and such until it's unpopular :/

Ridiculing people because of their religion is not a valid reason. Take it or leave it. I have to make supper.

EDIT: Sorry, I'll relabel myself. I follow Freelanderism. There, try to tell me that I am not that.

No, no, no, no, no. You are entirely free to believe in a religion. Trying to force it onto others, no. Claiming that it is logical when it isn't, no.

Also, isn't your logic and reasoning make you have an open mind to ALL subjects, including religious views?

Yes, however, they also tell us not to accept positive claims without evidence.

And, even still, Jesus Christ existed.

Flaw number one. No evidence outside of Christianity exists, to the best of my knowledge.

Proven scientific fact.

Flaw number two. See above for explanation of why science doesn't prove things. Also, history definitely doesn't do science.

He was about 33 when He died, He was beaten, flogged, and crucified. After He was dead on the cross, a spear was driven through His heart. When He was taken down, He was buried in a cave, which was sealed off by a giant rock, movable only by a group (10-20) of Roman soldiers. His body lay in the cave for three days, whic was guarded by that same group of gaurds.

Flaw number three. No evidence whatsoever for that one. Hell, the bible doesn't even agree with itself on parts of this bit.

Side note, if a Roman soldier fell asleep on duty, the penalty was death, so no one could have gotten by. On that third day, a ROMAN SOLDIER told Mary Magdelene that Jesus Christ had risen.

Flaw number four. Source please? I don't believe that any of the biblical versions of the tale contains this, but I could be wrong. Once you've done that, I'll have a source that isn't the bible please.

Why would a Roman soldier lie about the ressurection of a person that HE HELPED KILL? Afterwards, that very day, He spoke to over 500 people, about 450 at the same time, and some even touched and saw the holes in His hands and feet. He was living after his three days in the ground.

And yet nobody outside of the authors of the bible (not one of which was around at the time) thought to record this. Flaw number five.

FIND A FLAW IN THAT LOGIC.

That enough for you?

Yeah, or I'm finding my source. I don't know, maybe that's leaving.

Well you haven't provided one yet.

Roman military code,

Please elaborate on how Roman military code (which actually varied quite a lot over the size of the empire in enforcement) helps your argument. Then provide a source for it.

crucifixion records,

Source 'em. Most excellent records were kept by the Roman Empire for the vast majority of its existence and huge amounts of this data is still around, yet to my knowledge there is no reference to the supposed execution of jesus. Flaw number six (or have I miscounted?)

the cave is still there,

So a cave exists? Woop-de-fucking-do. Flaw number seven.

the hill is still there (aka Galgatha),]/QUOTE]

Ditto. Flaw number eight.

oh, and it's in the Bible,

Circular logic. Flaw number nine.

which was written in Hebrew,

False: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible#Original_language. Flaw number ten.

you know, traditional language of basically the whole Mediterranean area.

False: http://www.mpumc.org/uploads/file/The%20Mediterranean%20World.pdf. Flaw number eleven. Also irrelevant.

By the way, what happened to open mindedness?

It exists. That means you consider all viewpoints, rather than discarding those that don't agree with your favourite storybook.

Why does Christianity have to be questioned all the time?

Because everything has to be questioned all the time. How else do you establish that it is logically sound and not bullshit?

Why is agnosticism or atheism the way to exist?

Because after logical assessment, it is the viewpoint that explains the universe with the fewest assumptions given the data available to me. Unless, that is, you have an option with fewer assumptions?

And it is 'exist' because you don't get an afterlife without God and Jesus. Actually, you do, it's just in the pool of sulfur and brimstone. In Hell. Along with everyone who isn't saved.

Firstly, why the hell is existing later necessary for now to be a life? Secondly, I'll have some evidence for the existence of any source of afterlife whatsoever please. Flaws number 12 and 13.

1. Find them yourself if you're so heavyset against it.

You made the claim, you provide the evidence. Flaw number 14.

2. Still factually correct.

Demonstrably not - see above. Flaw number 15.

3. Honesty is the truth, which has been the only thing to come across my mouth.

Again, demonstrably not, see above. You have either a) lied or b) been deceived. Flaw number 16.

4. I can question things too. What is your belief based on?

Logic. It is the explanation of the currently available evidence that requires the fewest assumptions of those I am currently aware of. Failure to understand this is flaw number 17.

5. What?

OK, I'll forgive you on this one - it's a little obscure. Basically, you failed to make a valid point. I'll leave it to Norstal to explain his argument. It is, however, flaw number 18.

6. How do you know you'll become a 'god'?

Again, I'll leave this one mainly to Norstal, but how do you know that you will continue to exist? Failing to grasp this point is flaw number 19.

But surely Dante must have got the idea of Hell from somewhere before writing the Divine Comedy.

Tolkien had to get the idea of the goblins from somewhere before writing the Lord of the Rings, therefore goblins exist. Spot the logic fail here yet? (Unless I missed some sarcasm in there, in which case I apologise, I'm a little tired at the moment and not really up to spotting sarcasm on the internet)

1. It's an opportunity to prove me wrong. Also, you created a situation that doesn't involve the subject at hand.

Doesn't work that way. Look up the burden of proof. You created the situation. Flaw number 20.

2. How is it not?

See above. I'll let you off this one since it's a copy of an above flaw.

3. What was our source for atheism again? Is there a book of some kind?

No, logic. That's why we don't need a book of fairy tales to explain our points, we have logic and evidence to do this. Flaw number 21.

4. I didn't say I knew everything. Heaven was created, the world was created, hell was created. If not, explain how everything came to be.

Right-o. We'll go through this one by parts. Firstly, I'll have a source on the existence of heaven/hell (#22). Secondly, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartle%E2%80%93Hawking_initial_state"]like this[/url] or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpyrotic_universe"], or any other of a number of other possible explanations. "I don't understand" is not an argument. (#23)

5. Then live that way without criticizing other religions. I'm happy as a Christian.

Then be happy being criticized, just like everything else.

6. I'm saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross for all sins. Ever.

I'll have some evidence for that one please. Flaw number 24.

Question for you. How was the world created?

See above.

The Bible says that many will falsely proclaim that they are the true Jesus. However they are not. When Jesus comes back to Earth, apocalyptic times will be among us.

I'll have some evidence that the bible is a valid source for anything beyond its own existence and what its creators wanted people to think please. Flaw number 25.

Where did the hot dense state come from?

I kinda skipped this step. See above.

Then don't read it. Burn in Hell. I care if you do, but if you don't feel like being saved, I can only pray for you.

Thank you for the very good example of why people like you deserve to be criticized even more than everyone else.

You know Jesus is God incarnate? You have to have a certain understanding to know that He speaks through prophets. It's real. You'll burn too. I'll also pray for you.

Very much depends on your reading of the bible. I'll have a source for "god" speaking through "prophets" please. Flaw number 26.

Where'd the protoplanetary nebula come from?

How was that created?

Again, skipped these, see above.

Yet you still don't get the point. Shocking.

No, we get the point. The issue is that your argument is a special case exception to an infinite regression (a logical fallacy based off a logical fallacy. Combo-fallacy. Flaw number 27 (I'll only count it as one since you haven't actually got to the special case exception yet, I'm feeling nice).

The Bible says that there will be a leader that will rule the ENTIRE world. That hasn't happened yet.

The bible also says that there was a global flood and that said ruler would rule the entire world within a lifetime of the supposed existence of jesus. Flaw number 28.

He always was, always is, and always will be. Case and point. He was before everything else. He made everything, including us. He knew we would have this discussion, you wouldn't believe, and he sees the future. He sees the terrible things that will happen to unsaved sinners.

Aha, there we go, that's the special case exception. Flaw number 29.

Still though, I think we have some significance, I mean, ants don't go around blowing up shit with nuclear explosions or build laser beams.

I imagine building an anthill seems very impressive from the scale of an ant. From the scale of the universe, everything that we have done is utterly tiny and irrelevant. Thinking that we have any importance whatsoever, or that the universe would care even if we did, is the very height of presumption.

:S Slaves are men too, and women. By that logic following any major ideas, like capitalism, democracy, any scientific discoveries also means you're a slave.

False equivalence. Whilst it is arguable that capitalism forces a form of slavery in some forms of capitalism (I said arguable, mind you, ancap people), the principle of democracy is to allow people to lead themselves (albeit usually indirectly) and the point of scientific discoveries is that you can check them.

[-St George]

My point with those examples, as you pointed out, is that there are bigots everywhere. Bigotry is independent of race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, and political views.

However, Christianity actively advocates bigotry, which is a different thing entirely.

Ahem?

[Samuraikoku]

But surely Dante must have got the idea of Hell from somewhere before writing the Divine Comedy.

Tolkien had to get the idea of the goblins from somewhere before writing the Lord of the Rings, therefore goblins exist. Spot the logic fail here yet? (Unless I missed some sarcasm in there, in which case I apologise, I'm a little tired at the moment and not really up to spotting sarcasm on the internet)

I made that claim, and it was indeed sarcasm. LOL

[Freelanderness]

First you said

No. We are saying that because a viewpoint exists, it should be torn apart, analysed down to its roots and thoroughly abused. If the opinion can't survive this, there was something wrong with it from the start.

But then you said

No, no, no, no, no. You are entirely free to believe in a religion.

Isn't that somewhat of a paradox?

:S Slaves are men too, and women. By that logic following any major ideas, like capitalism, democracy, any scientific discoveries also means you're a slave.

False equivalence. Whilst it is arguable that capitalism forces a form of slavery in some forms of capitalism (I said arguable, mind you, ancap people), the principle of democracy is to allow people to lead themselves (albeit usually indirectly) and the point of scientific discoveries is that you can check them.

The principle of religion is to believe in a God.

[Salandriagado]

Ahem?

As I said - the basis of Christianity openly advocates bigotry. I suggest reading the bible some time.

First you said

No. We are saying that because a viewpoint exists, it should be torn apart, analysed down to its roots and thoroughly abused. If the opinion can't survive this, there was something wrong with it from the start.

But then you said

No, no, no, no, no. You are entirely free to believe in a religion.

Isn't that somewhat of a paradox?

Not in the slightest - you are free to believe whatever you like, but you are not in any way free to impose it on others or claim some kind of special exception from being ripped apart, analysed and otherwise abused. Every single scientific theory gets that, every idea receives it. You don't get an exception from this rule.

:S Slaves are men too, and women. By that logic following any major ideas, like capitalism, democracy, any scientific discoveries also means you're a slave.

False equivalence. Whilst it is arguable that capitalism forces a form of slavery in some forms of capitalism (I said arguable, mind you, ancap people), the principle of democracy is to allow people to lead themselves (albeit usually indirectly) and the point of scientific discoveries is that you can check them.

The principle of religion is to believe in a God.

The principle of religion is to accept a positive claim (the existence of a god) in the absence of positive evidence.

[Samuraikoku]

The principle of religion is to accept a positive claim (the existence of a god) in the absence of positive evidence.

And that is what we call "faith".

[-St George]

Ahem?

As I said - the basis of Christianity openly advocates bigotry. I suggest reading the bible some time.

No, it doesn't. I suggest you try actually reading the Bible, and not what you find on pro-atheist websites.