Privatized police department.

[Sibirsky]

Forced? How so?

Because say I buy from my local company. Now I go to new york which is on the opposite side of the country.

I don't even WANT to be in NY. I'm just there for a stupid stopover to get somewhere else. I don't even like new york. But I grab something to eat and my wallet is stolen. So what do I do?

I call up my private police agency. They tell me: I'm sorry but we have no ability to send investigators to the other side of the country.

I contact the nearest cop looking person who says: Are you a client? Then GTFO!

Now I'm late for my flight and stranded in New york and the police won't talk to me till I sign a contract with their office which is open from 9 to 5 monday to friday.

Dude, you completely left out the part when you were in Europe. You are in NYC on your way to the Pacific Northwest from Europe. While in Europe, your American phone worked! And you will be billed by your American provider, even though they will pay a portion of that to the European provider they contract with.

So, your Washingtonian, or whatever firm has contracts with other firms, including one in NYC. They provide service. Bill your provider which in turn bills you.

[The Parkus Empire]

Do you have any statistics for rapes commited by police?

It really isn't fair to ask for that for obvious reasons.

[Lomenore]

Do you have any statistics for rapes commited by police?

It really isn't fair to ask for that for obvious reasons.

There should be some information available on crimes commited by police officers. There should at least be some evidence available to support his position, rather then simply deriding cops as a body of bloodsucking monsters.

[GeneralHaNor]

They're armed. Why would they not defend themselves or the property they are hired to defend?

Because they don't want to die.

A quick google search comes up with many results of armed security guards returning fire
You're wrong

[GeneralHaNor]

Why do cops stop armed people now? Why wouldn't they in a privatized society lol? If you don't, you get fired. You need to support your family somehow.

No they don't. That's a state issue.

lol wut?, the Cops are the State!, It's the cops that are involved in enforcement of law and the stopping of armed criminals. Whenever you here "Man shot 31 times" it's usually followed by "Insert Police Department here"

[Norstal]

Because they don't want to die.

A quick google search comes up with many results of armed security guards returning fire
You're wrong

Wow. Did you hear that? People with guns fire their guns. Who knew. I certainly don't. Because, here I thought that people with guns regardless of the uniform, color of shirt, etc. don't use their guns. I always thought it was an accessory, like necklaces. Really, I didn't even know guns fire bullets. Hell, I didn't know people can't get hurt from bullets. What's a bullet anyways? Who makes bullets?

[Norstal]

No they don't. That's a state issue.

lol wut?, the Cops are the State!, It's the cops that are involved in enforcement of law and the stopping of armed criminals. Whenever you here "Man shot 31 times" it's usually followed by "Insert Police Department here"

Conceal and carry law is a state issue.

And whether or not that man deserves to be shot, you don't know. You're not god. You don't know all sides to the story. Don't jump to conclusion.

[Sibirsky]

Let's face it: a totally privatized police force = having to wear some big, fat fucking certificate all the time that shows you're insured.

Not true.

[GeneralHaNor]

lol wut?, the Cops are the State!, It's the cops that are involved in enforcement of law and the stopping of armed criminals. Whenever you here "Man shot 31 times" it's usually followed by "Insert Police Department here"

Conceal and carry law is a state issue.

And whether or not that man deserves to be shot, you don't know. You're not god. You don't know all sides to the story. Don't jump to conclusion.

I'll jump to any conclusion I want
Law is enforced by cops, "It's a state issue" is a distraction argument, that has no purpose, the cops are the state, the cops enforce the will of the state. And when there are criminals who need to be arrested (or shot) that is the job of the cops, that is what they are paid to do.

Cops are little more than rent a thugs

[Sibirsky]

And the entire time, nobody else enters the market? Impossible.

Oh other people would enter the market, but they wouldn't have the same production capacity, knowledge base, expertise, or financial assets an entrenched monopoly would have. Those are all weapons a monopoly can use to drive startup competitors out of business.

But there would be many of them. And some of them would be better than the existing business in some areas. They would gain market share.

[GeneralHaNor]

A quick google search comes up with many results of armed security guards returning fire
You're wrong

Wow. Did you hear that? People with guns fire their guns. Who knew. I certainly don't. Because, here I thought that people with guns regardless of the uniform, color of shirt, etc. don't use their guns. I always thought it was an accessory, like necklaces. Really, I didn't even know guns fire bullets. Hell, I didn't know people can't get hurt from bullets. What's a bullet anyways? Who makes bullets?

The assertion by Parkus, is that private armed security would not defend themselves or the property they are hired to defend. Reality disproves that statement

[The Parkus Empire]

Because they don't want to die.

A quick google search comes up with many results of armed security guards returning fire
You're wrong

Well, not "returning" fire.

This was the first hit I got: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1171329

You're also talking about guards who are being shot at--anyone would return fire under such circumstances. That's a lot different than participating in a gunfight where one wasn't previously a target.

[The Parkus Empire]

Let's face it: a totally privatized police force = having to wear some big, fat fucking certificate all the time that shows you're insured.

Not true.

It seems to me that one would wear certification where one could.

[The Parkus Empire]

Wow. Did you hear that? People with guns fire their guns. Who knew. I certainly don't. Because, here I thought that people with guns regardless of the uniform, color of shirt, etc. don't use their guns. I always thought it was an accessory, like necklaces. Really, I didn't even know guns fire bullets. Hell, I didn't know people can't get hurt from bullets. What's a bullet anyways? Who makes bullets?

The assertion by Parkus, is that private armed security would not defend themselves or the property they are hired to defend. Reality disproves that statement

No private standard (as in, not Blackwater or some other security firm paid an awful lot specifically for engaging hostiles) security guard would get involved in a gunfight with a suspect if he wasn't being shot at. For one thing, they'd probably get fired if they did. For another, they simply don't get paid or respected enough, nor are such guards ideologically motivated.

You have to realize that a security guard is (generally) not at all the same as a privatized police department.

[Lomenore]

Oh other people would enter the market, but they wouldn't have the same production capacity, knowledge base, expertise, or financial assets an entrenched monopoly would have. Those are all weapons a monopoly can use to drive startup competitors out of business.

But there would be many of them. And some of them would be better than the existing business in some areas. They would gain market share.

And the monopoly could in turn undercut their competitors in that area. They would just lower their prices until the competitor went out of business. The more times this happens, the harder it will be to get investors for a startup firm. Venture capitalists aren't going to invest in a new electronics store when 4 electronics stores before them were driven out of business.

[Sibirsky]

Do they feel that "sense of duty" when 10 of them break down doors and shoot family pets in front of 5 year old children over a gram of weed?

Meanwhile, a few miles away women are being raped and they don't do shit.

Sense of duty^TM

Police are not supermen. Are you so perfect yourself then? Maybe you should become a policeman.

Why would I become a government hired thug?

Did I claim I was perfect? What do I have to do with this example?

Can we list, in order, the main duties of police? Here we go...

1. Prevention of severe violence.
2. Protection of property.
3. Petty theft and other minor crime.
4. Victimless criminal activities.

But is this the way real world police operate? Nope. The exact opposite is true. In some jurisdiction, prostitution enforcement is the single largest item in the budget. Meanwhile, only 28% of violent crimes reported result in an arrest. Police in major cities make as many arrests for prostitution, as all violent offenses combined. Boston, Cleveland, Houston, arrested twice as many people for prostitution than all violent crime combined. Violent criminals escape arrest 90% of the time. Some departments spend half their money on drug enforcement. Meanwhile, many homicides go uninvestigated.

Police protection from crimes that need protection is mostly an illusion.

[Sibirsky]

Do you have any statistics for rapes commited by police? Or stolen property they did or didn't recover? Are you going to provide any information or just paint libel with a broad brush?

Someone claimed that police rape? I'm sure it happens, but no one made such a claim.

Most stolen property is not recovered.

[The Parkus Empire]

Can we list, in order, the main duties of police? Here we go...

Deterrent. Cops aren't here to protect people--they aren't Batman. They're simply here to make people think twice about crime, and, to some lessor extent, to facilitate justice.

[Sibirsky]

But there would be many of them. And some of them would be better than the existing business in some areas. They would gain market share.

And the monopoly could in turn undercut their competitors in that area. They would just lower their prices until the competitor went out of business. The more times this happens, the harder it will be to get investors for a startup firm. Venture capitalists aren't going to invest in a new electronics store when 4 electronics stores before them were driven out of business.

The monopoly cannot do it, indefinitely.

[Norstal]

Conceal and carry law is a state issue.

And whether or not that man deserves to be shot, you don't know. You're not god. You don't know all sides to the story. Don't jump to conclusion.

I'll jump to any conclusion I want

Very well. Private police are bad because I saw in a movie that cowboys shoot other cowboys and Indians. I also saw Blackwater mercenaries who worked in policing civilians who shoots the civilian. Therefore, private police are baaaaaaaaad.

Law is enforced by cops, "It's a state issue" is a distraction argument, that has no purpose, the cops are the state, the cops enforce the will of the state.

Why do cops stop armed people now?

The "distraction" here is that, cops don't stop armed people in all states. Hence why there's conceal and carry laws.

Cops are little more than rent a thugs

Yeah. And they're better thugs than private police.

[Lomenore]

Unsupported claim. Right now I could say that wearing pies on your feet is the secret to immortality, and I'd have given my claim just as much evidence as yours.

[Norstal]

Police are not supermen. Are you so perfect yourself then? Maybe you should become a policeman.

Why would I become a government hired thug?

Why not? What's so bad in being a thug?

Did I claim I was perfect? What do I have to do with this example?

That, policemen and policewomen don't have superhearing powers. That, they are not immune to family pets that bite. That, they are enforcing the laws they see fit.

Can we list, in order, the main duties of police? Here we go...

1. Prevention of severe violence.
2. Protection of property.
3. Petty theft and other minor crime.
4. Victimless criminal activities.

But is this the way real world police operate? Nope. The exact opposite is true. In some jurisdiction, prostitution enforcement is the single largest item in the budget. Meanwhile, only 28% of violent crimes reported result in an arrest. Police in major cities make as many arrests for prostitution, as all violent offenses combined. Boston, Cleveland, Houston, arrested twice as many people for prostitution than all violent crime combined. Violent criminals escape arrest 90% of the time. Some departments spend half their money on drug enforcement. Meanwhile, many homicides go uninvestigated.

Police protection from crimes that need protection is mostly an illusion.

Then change the laws. That's not the policemen's problem. They ARE by this definition, just enforcing the law. And as you said before, private police would do the same thing, except they're cheaper.

[Sibirsky]

Why would I become a government hired thug?

Why not? What's so bad in being a thug?

You don't know me very well, do you? I don't want to be a parasite, living at the expense of taxpayers.

Did I claim I was perfect? What do I have to do with this example?

That, policemen and policewomen don't have superhearing powers. That, they are not immune to family pets that bite. That, they are enforcing the laws they see fit.

Funny. Some of those pets were running away when they were shot.

Can we list, in order, the main duties of police? Here we go...

1. Prevention of severe violence.
2. Protection of property.
3. Petty theft and other minor crime.
4. Victimless criminal activities.

But is this the way real world police operate? Nope. The exact opposite is true. In some jurisdiction, prostitution enforcement is the single largest item in the budget. Meanwhile, only 28% of violent crimes reported result in an arrest. Police in major cities make as many arrests for prostitution, as all violent offenses combined. Boston, Cleveland, Houston, arrested twice as many people for prostitution than all violent crime combined. Violent criminals escape arrest 90% of the time. Some departments spend half their money on drug enforcement. Meanwhile, many homicides go uninvestigated.

Police protection from crimes that need protection is mostly an illusion.

Then change the laws. That's not the policemen's problem. They ARE by this definition, just enforcing the law. And as you said before, private police would do the same thing, except they're cheaper.

You miss the point. They are concentrating on the wrong things. All the things I listed are illegal. They are focusing on the wrong ones.

And you support this idiocy. Shameful.

[ZombieRothbard]

But there would be many of them. And some of them would be better than the existing business in some areas. They would gain market share.

And the monopoly could in turn undercut their competitors in that area. They would just lower their prices until the competitor went out of business. The more times this happens, the harder it will be to get investors for a startup firm. Venture capitalists aren't going to invest in a new electronics store when 4 electronics stores before them were driven out of business.

I already addressed predatory pricing earlier in the thread.

[Natapoc]

.

But sib both systems (the private one and the current public one) work based on whatever laws are in place regulating whatever we want to call "police"

I'm not so sure Norstal is missing the point. In both systems we have laws/contracts which regulate/specify law enforcement priorities. If the problem is with the way current law enforcement prioritizes enforcement of these laws then it's a valid question:
"Why not just change the way current law enforcement priorities?" For example:
80% Violent crime.
20% petty theft/property crimes.
0% victimless crimes